nisidhe
Hank Scorpio
O Superman....O judge....O Mom and Dad....
Posts: 5,769
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Post by nisidhe on Apr 13, 2022 6:15:49 GMT -5
As long as the B2B numbers hold steady, we the audience don't matter. The ratings would need to slip into territory where the networks get angry enough to care about the schlock Vince is putting on the TV get even angrier when they sit down to watch it.
And nothing - absolutely nothing - tells me that I don't matter when WWE spends 3 minutes of TV time spouting business jargon to promote itself not to viewers, but to advertisers and network executives. The only thing that Vince might heed is if AEW starts beating WWE's main programming in the ratings. They could well be only a few WWE releases or ship-jumpers away from achieving that.
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Fade
Patti Mayonnaise
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Post by Fade on Apr 13, 2022 8:15:23 GMT -5
They just teased Rock vs Roman on Rocks show Young Rock. LMAO I don’t know why but that gave me George Lucas going back to rework the OT energy. That "ACKNOWLEDGE ME" was so cringe lmfao He should have pouted and said "Suffering Succotash" “Fine! I’ll just . . . SHIELD myself……..Sierra, Hotel, India, Echo, Lima, De-“ *Dwayne smacks him*
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Post by "Evil Brood" Jackson Vanik on Apr 13, 2022 8:24:53 GMT -5
"Alright kids, we're going to split up into four groups. Count off by 1's..."
*five minutes later*
"Joe, which group are you in?"
"We the 1's!"
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Post by Raw is Doodie101 on Apr 13, 2022 9:25:25 GMT -5
As long as the B2B numbers hold steady, we the audience don't matter. The ratings would need to slip into territory where the networks get angry enough to care about the schlock Vince is putting on the TV and get even angrier when they sit down to watch it. And nothing - absolutely nothing - tells me that I don't matter when WWE spends 3 minutes of TV time spouting business jargon to promote itself not to viewers, but to advertisers and network executives. The only thing that Vince might heed is if AEW starts beating WWE's main programming in the ratings. They could well be only a few WWE releases or ship-jumpers away from achieving that. As I mentioned earlier, Roman has every metric on his side that says that the audience likes what they're doing with his character. So how can you say that the audience doesn't matter when the audience is literally saying that they like this? Does the audience only matter when it supports your viewpoint? Or does it matter when it supports WWE's viewpoint? Is it Oochie Wally or is it One Mic?
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nisidhe
Hank Scorpio
O Superman....O judge....O Mom and Dad....
Posts: 5,769
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Post by nisidhe on Apr 13, 2022 10:30:53 GMT -5
As long as the B2B numbers hold steady, we the audience don't matter. The ratings would need to slip into territory where the networks get angry enough to care about the schlock Vince is putting on the TV and get even angrier when they sit down to watch it. And nothing - absolutely nothing - tells me that I don't matter when WWE spends 3 minutes of TV time spouting business jargon to promote itself not to viewers, but to advertisers and network executives. The only thing that Vince might heed is if AEW starts beating WWE's main programming in the ratings. They could well be only a few WWE releases or ship-jumpers away from achieving that. As I mentioned earlier, Roman has every metric on his side that says that the audience likes what they're doing with his character. So how can you say that the audience doesn't matter when the audience is literally saying that they like this? Does the audience only matter when it supports your viewpoint? Or does it matter when it supports WWE's viewpoint? Is it Oochie Wally or is it One Mic? I'm gainsaying what you're saying primarily because a) the ratings for both shows have not improved significantly during Roman's title reign and, indeed, have been declining steadily since 2016; b) B2B now represents 80% of WWE's annual revenue, which placing the on-screen product increasingly in a position where it is a loss sink rather than its core business. As Mrs. Carlson famously said, "It's not about the plus-minus, but about the plus-plus - _if_ you play your minuses correctly." The ratings don't matter to WWE except in that it's selling ad space to advertisers on a platform that is increasingly losing relevance to its core audience. Peacock has exposed its paid tier as providing very little value for the ad-free experience since the ad space is still embedded in the programming. That's WWE not valuing its audience anymore.
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Post by "Evil Brood" Jackson Vanik on Apr 13, 2022 10:40:59 GMT -5
As long as the B2B numbers hold steady, we the audience don't matter. The ratings would need to slip into territory where the networks get angry enough to care about the schlock Vince is putting on the TV and get even angrier when they sit down to watch it. And nothing - absolutely nothing - tells me that I don't matter when WWE spends 3 minutes of TV time spouting business jargon to promote itself not to viewers, but to advertisers and network executives. The only thing that Vince might heed is if AEW starts beating WWE's main programming in the ratings. They could well be only a few WWE releases or ship-jumpers away from achieving that. As I mentioned earlier, Roman has every metric on his side that says that the audience likes what they're doing with his character. So how can you say that the audience doesn't matter when the audience is literally saying that they like this? Does the audience only matter when it supports your viewpoint? Or does it matter when it supports WWE's viewpoint? Is it Oochie Wally or is it One Mic? I think the metrics are more complicated than you might think. If you look at the SmackDown ratings, Roman often isn't the high point of the show. He sometimes, he sometimes isn't. He also has the advantage of being on FOX which by the very nature of being on Network TV means it will have the most steady viewership. It has the best night of the week to draw paying fans to shows and by being two hours, has the best chance of building an audience as compared to RAW. Is he a needle mover? At times for TV and more so at the gate for SmackDown. But it's also worth considering that he is receiving an unparalleled push in the modern era. He has not been beaten in over 2 years. Cena never did that. Austin never did that. He's being protected more than anyone we've really ever seen in this country in modern times. I would hope he would be at least somewhat of a draw with that kind of push. I think what's clear is some people like this but it's also not creating a new audience. It's very muddled so I wouldn't feel too confident making a grand claim either way.
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Post by Jindrak Mark on Apr 13, 2022 11:12:29 GMT -5
I've defended this Roman reign for the most part but it's at the point that it really can't go much longer.
They have two amazing opportunities waiting for them which could be incredible endings to it. You have Cody who has to win the title to fulfil his family legacy. You could do that at Summerslam. Or you have Drew, who finally got to the top and it was ruined because there was no fans around, fighting his way back and beating Roman in the UK in front of 80,000 people. That could be a moment remembered for decades to come like Bulldog/Bret.
It would be completely ridiculous to sacrifice these moments just for the sake of Roman going in as champion against The Rock. That match is going to be huge. Roman doesn't have to go into it with an 800 day title reign behind him. Rock/Cena is the biggest money wrestling match ever and not only was it not a title match but Cena spent most of the previous 6 months getting his ass kicked by Kane or losing to Punk and Del Rio. No one thought any less of him though. It was still The Rock v John Cena. Just like people won't suddenly stop caring about Rock/Roman if Roman loses once or twice 6-12 months beforehand. Hell, he could even regain the title at the Rumble after dropping it in August/September, if they absolutely insist on that match being for the title.
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Post by Raw is Doodie101 on Apr 13, 2022 11:35:52 GMT -5
As I mentioned earlier, Roman has every metric on his side that says that the audience likes what they're doing with his character. So how can you say that the audience doesn't matter when the audience is literally saying that they like this? Does the audience only matter when it supports your viewpoint? Or does it matter when it supports WWE's viewpoint? Is it Oochie Wally or is it One Mic? I'm gainsaying what you're saying primarily because a) the ratings for both shows have not improved significantly during Roman's title reign and, indeed, have been declining steadily since 2016; b) B2B now represents 80% of WWE's annual revenue, which placing the on-screen product increasingly in a position where it is a loss sink rather than its core business. As Mrs. Carlson famously said, "It's not about the plus-minus, but about the plus-plus - _if_ you play your minuses correctly." The ratings don't matter to WWE except in that it's selling ad space to advertisers on a platform that is increasingly losing relevance to its core audience. Peacock has exposed its paid tier as providing very little value for the ad-free experience since the ad space is still embedded in the programming. That's WWE not valuing its audience anymore. The ratings for Smackdown(his primary show) were losing ratings in the Summer of 2020 up until he returned and turned heel. While he did not return Smackdown to the 0.8 demo rating that it was an averaging pre-pandemic, he helped stabilize the ratings to 0.6 to 0.5 that show now operates and is now usually the number 1 rated show on Friday Nights. Also, whenever he was on Monday Night Raw in 2021, the show had a noticeable rating boost. Also, Smackdown and Roman-led house shows are consistently the highest-grossing WWE Events. TV Ratings across the entire industry have been declining since 2016 and WWE's ratings have been doing a normal ratings decline in comparison to the entire industry. They haven't really lost viewers in droves since the authority arc and the pandemic when EVERYBODY's ratings decline. Also, how do ratings not matter to WWE when they get 50% of their money from TV Rights?
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Nosnorb
El Dandy
Nachos and Fraggle Rock are TIMELESS.
Posts: 8,378
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Post by Nosnorb on Apr 13, 2022 12:05:00 GMT -5
I feel like this Roman Reign is viewed so differently here than what the attendance, live crowd reactions, tv ratings, and social media viewership would have you believe. I understand not liking this run and just saying it's not for you. Hey, that's understandable and that's a personable preference. But people on this board would have you believe that this thing sucks and has no juice left in it when nothing is coming out from real-world metrics that you have you believe that Roman needs to drop the belt anytime soon. In fact, it's so successful that they're adding to it by having the Uso go after the gold because all the metrics are saying "hey keep this shit going". The segment with the Usos the last Raw dropped 500K from the quarter with Liv Morgan vs Naomi (W/Sasha Banks).
People might want to tune in to see Roman, but they don't seem to have much interest in his bitches winning the Raw belts.
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Apr 13, 2022 14:20:55 GMT -5
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Kalmia
King Koopa
Happy to be here
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Post by Kalmia on Apr 13, 2022 14:44:35 GMT -5
I've hated this Roman run since almost the start and even I can admit that it's definitely still over with large sections of the WWE fanbase. There's always an audience for an insanely strong heel champ that's made to look cooler than ice every week.
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Nosnorb
El Dandy
Nachos and Fraggle Rock are TIMELESS.
Posts: 8,378
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Post by Nosnorb on Apr 13, 2022 15:02:39 GMT -5
I've hated this Roman run since almost the start and even I can admit that it's definitely still over with large sections of the WWE fanbase. There's always an audience for an insanely strong heel champ that's made to look cooler than ice every week. Problem is that there is nobody that has been built to the level of Roman. Beastie Boy has left for at least Summerslam and got no measure of revenge on Roman or The Bloodline, Lashley lost MVP, and Drew feuded with Jinder before moving onto Happy Corbin in a feud that due to an injury to McIntyre, went on far too long and ended in a pretty tame match considering what Corbin did and said. There is Cody, but he's feuding with Seth, whose own promising story with Reigns in January just ended.
The only dude that has stepped up to Roman on both shows is Shinsuke Nakamura, a choke artist who was left lying in the middle of the ring. That is nowhere near good enough.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2022 15:32:14 GMT -5
They just teased Rock vs Roman on Rocks show Young Rock. Ahhh so I guess that will be the WM match either next year or the year after.
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Post by "American Nightmare" B.B. Bart on Apr 13, 2022 15:44:05 GMT -5
I've hated this Roman run since almost the start and even I can admit that it's definitely still over with large sections of the WWE fanbase. There's always an audience for an insanely strong heel champ that's made to look cooler than ice every week. Problem is that there is nobody that has been built to the level of Roman. Beastie Boy has left for at least Summerslam and got no measure of revenge on Roman or The Bloodline, Lashley lost MVP, and Drew feuded with Jinder before moving onto Happy Corbin in a feud that due to an injury to McIntyre, went on far too long and ended in a pretty tame match considering what Corbin did and said. There is Cody, but he's feuding with Seth, whose own promising story with Reigns in January just ended.
The only dude that has stepped up to Roman on both shows is Shinsuke Nakamura, a choke artist who was left lying in the middle of the ring. That is nowhere near good enough.
There’s also the Bron Breakker button, but honestly? He’s probably a bit too far off until he becomes a Main Roster guy. Maybe fall 2022 at the earliest, and they run the risk of damaging the guy’s reactions if they strap the rocket to him too early.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2022 16:24:50 GMT -5
Reigns/Cody seems the most logical booking they can do right now. Yeah, Rock is there and all but if you want the best possible story you do Cody and then do the Rock match without a title.
More than likely Rock/Reigns will be for one belt and then they'll reintroduce a new title and give it to I don't know, Owens or even Seth from a long term perspective and then Cody will face em for that belt.
Cody's getting a title. I just don't know who it'll be against.
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Post by Rudy Gobert Weather Machine on Apr 13, 2022 16:28:14 GMT -5
What if Rock vs. Austin was first hinted at on an episode of La Femme Nikita
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2022 16:32:02 GMT -5
What if Rock vs. Austin was first hinted at on an episode of La Femme Nikita Imagine her going through some computer and on it there's a "WM17, Rock vs Austin?" screen that pops up for 1 second.
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mcstoklasa
Hank Scorpio
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Post by mcstoklasa on Apr 14, 2022 9:29:02 GMT -5
I just don't get that Brock match at Mania.
Like the crowd were into it. It was going okay. I'd just keep the first eleven minutes how they were I guess.
Then just add another 7 minutes or so of something different, like them brawling up the ramp Austin style, Brock punching out Heyman maybe (so the audience feel he at least got some revenge before losing), going through an announce table, then rolling into the ring and Roman winning with a spear.
I just don't get how what equated to an eight month heated blood feud ended like that. Brock got no revenge whatsoever. I'm fine with him losing but he didn't get a win, he didn't get anything.
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asuka007
Fry's dog Seymour
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Post by asuka007 on Apr 14, 2022 12:25:17 GMT -5
It took finally turning him heel and booking him as oop to a level that has not been seen since 80’s babyface Hogan, to finally make him a “big star.”
“Hey all we had to do was have him annihilate everybody and not get pinned or submitted as a heel in TWO YEARS, for people to finally get behind him.”
It’s the Charlotte Flair syndrome.
Meanwhile, others have gotten better over despite being given FAR less by WWE.
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spagett
Hank Scorpio
Great Job!
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Post by spagett on Apr 14, 2022 14:38:23 GMT -5
It took finally turning him heel and booking him as oop to a level that has not been seen since 80’s babyface Hogan, to finally make him a “big star.” “Hey all we had to do was have him annihilate everybody and not get pinned or submitted as a heel in TWO YEARS, for people to finally get behind him.” It’s the Charlotte Flair syndrome. Meanwhile, others have gotten better over despite being given FAR less by WWE. Yeah, it always seems strange when people lavish praise on him for this run. I mean his singles push started 8 years ago, he won his first WWE title 7 years ago. He's been champion for approaching 2 years , he's unbeaten for nearly 2 and a half years, he's never portrayed as weak or threatened or vulnerable. He ends every single show on top and then wins at the PPV. He's portrayed as so far above everyone else on the roster, I'm not even sure Hogan was ever portrayed as this superior to everyone else, Cena either. I really do think you give that sort of push to most other guys in WWE and they also get over to a similar degree. Yeah he's over now, and he's seen as a big star by my God look at what they've had to do to make it happen.
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