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Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2021 22:24:10 GMT -5
I just think at this point it's just too much for people to accept him holding onto the belt no matter what he does. I saw a lot of posts these past few weeks where people said they'd be ok with him being champion if he just won legit (around WM time) and now where he does it's like people are doing the "well uh no not that that doesn't count" thing. How he wins doesn't matter and how he is as a champion doesn't matter, people just don't want him to be champion anymore. If more just said that rather straight up then we'd get it but it's like nah, people aren't saying that. I wish I saw more of that rather than excuses on how they'd be ok with him being champion because now it looks like they're finally doing something new with his wins. The reason this one annoyed me so much was mostly just in the fact that they still did the same exact shit of someone getting the upper hand on him only for Jey to show up out of nowhere and cause him to stand tall at the end anyway. Beating Bryan clean was good; that was a welcome change of pace (well, other than that I didn't want Roman to win but whatever, that's fine). The issue is that they had the chance to end the show on something different with Cesaro kicking his ass and sending him running and it just turned into the same segment we've already seen a hundred times before. Hell, they could have bare minimum at least had Roman pull the Concharito off on his own and then have Cesaro chase him off when he tried to do it again or something. It'd have still been leaving Bryan lying broken without defaulting right back to, "Roman immediately gets the upper hand on his next challenger because for some reason no one can remember he has a cousin."
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Chiral
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Post by Chiral on Apr 30, 2021 22:27:42 GMT -5
Here's something they could do that I'd dig; Roman needs the kind of moment like Orton got against Cactus Jack in 04. Like this moment right here: For months and months Orton called out Foley, beat up Foley, spat in his face, beat him at Wrestlemania. It all fed into his cocky unbeatable personality. But then he woke up Cactus Jack, and still thought he could go at the same level in a hardcore match as him. Then in this moment it wasn't about him besting this old loser anymore, it was about him surviving. Foley beat his ass up and down for the rest of the match and it was so cathartic. Orton still won the match and held the IC title for months after, but he wasn't the same guy anymore after the match. He needs that ass beating character level up moment. Not specifically that he needs to fall on thumbtacks or get beat up in a hardcore match but he needs some kind of threat that actually forces him past that like "I'm the best nobody can beat me you're all losers told you I'd win STACK EM UP" stuff. Another thing that is tough is the Jey feud was legit brilliant compelling storytelling and following that up is a tall order, and the Owens feud, the Edge/Bryan feud (Not counting the Drew feud I don't think they really had a storyline going with that) just didn't have the same writing touch to them IMO. Reigns was basically a side character in the Edge/Bryan one until WM, and the Owens feud was messy as they added more matches to it.
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Post by Friday Night SmackOwn on Apr 30, 2021 22:30:58 GMT -5
Here's something they could do that I'd dig; Roman needs the kind of moment like Orton got against Cactus Jack in 04. Like this moment right here: For months and months Orton called out Foley, beat up Foley, spat in his face, beat him at Wrestlemania. It all fed into his cocky unbeatable personality. But then he woke up Cactus Jack, and still thought he could go at the same level in a hardcore match as him. Then in this moment it wasn't about him besting this old loser anymore, it was about him surviving. Foley beat his ass up and down for the rest of the match and it was so cathartic. Orton still won the match and held the IC title for months after, but he wasn't the same guy anymore after the match. He needs that ass beating character level up moment. Not specifically that he needs to fall on thumbtacks or get beat up in a hardcore match but he needs some kind of threat that actually forces him past that like "I'm the best nobody can beat me you're all losers told you I'd win STACK EM UP" stuff. Another thing that is tough is the Jey feud was legit brilliant compelling storytelling and following that up is a tall order, and the Owens feud, the Edge/Bryan feud (Not counting the Drew feud I don't think they really had a storyline going with that) just didn't have the same writing touch to them IMO. Reigns was basically a side character in the Edge/Bryan one until WM, and the Owens feud was messy as they added more matches to it. Theoretically, the impending Cesaro match could be this. A match where this absolute wrestling machine goes to town on Roman, who barely wins -- without Jey getting his nose into things -- is where I'd go.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2021 22:32:54 GMT -5
Me, personally, I don't mind the long run. I'm just at the point where I need to see him left laying more often than not. It's just a weird disconnect for me that a company that prides itself on making people happy books in a way that makes people miserable instead. What I'm curious about is exactly what'll happen with Cesaro here because Bryan's alone now. Is Cesaro gonna get help from Nakamura or something? Is Nakamura gonna even the odds or is Cesaro gonna take out Reigns and Jey until they have their match? I see Reigns getting laid out on future SDs but I don't know how it's gonna happen. I definitely don't think we're gonna have Reigns and Jey beat down Cesaro week by week though. We gotta have something.
Either Cesaro is gonna be so great he can beat them both down or somebody is gonna help him out so we'll see.
Roman's booking as a heel compared to a face is an interesting study. I read some reports that Michael Hayes was helping some of his matches and all but who knows how much of that is Heyman, Hayes, Vince or even Reigns himself.
I just think at this point it's just too much for people to accept him holding onto the belt no matter what he does. I saw a lot of posts these past few weeks where people said they'd be ok with him being champion if he just won legit (around WM time) and now where he does it's like people are doing the "well uh no not that that doesn't count" thing. How he wins doesn't matter and how he is as a champion doesn't matter, people just don't want him to be champion anymore. If more just said that rather straight up then we'd get it but it's like nah, people aren't saying that. I wish I saw more of that rather than excuses on how they'd be ok with him being champion because now it looks like they're finally doing something new with his wins. The reason this one annoyed me so much was mostly just in the fact that they still did the same exact shit of someone getting the upper hand on him only for Joy to show up out of nowhere and cause him to stand tall at the end anyway. Beating Bryan clean was good; that was a welcome change of pace (well, other than that I didn't want Roman to win but whatever, that's fine). The issue is that they had the chance to end the show on something different with Cesaro kicking his ass and sending him running and it just turned into the same segment we've already seen a hundred times before. Hell, they could have bare minimum at least had Roman pull the Concharito off on his own and then have Cesaro chase him off when he tried to do it again or something. It'd have still been leaving Bryan lying broken without defaulting right back to, "Roman immediately gets the upper hand on his next challenger because for some reason no one can remember he has a cousin." We'll see what happens next week but I'm not sure. Right now to me it looked like they wanted Reigns to seem like the ultimate "God Puncher" so he did all this stuff so next week what'll happen with no Bryan? Will Cesaro be smarter? Will he have help? Will he take out both himself? We'll see because it didn't help them both here. One thing's for sure though, I doubt Cesaro will be getting beaten week by week until their match because if so then you'd have to question why. The more Cesaro gets beaten the bigger his chances look and tonight's looking like the worst from the face perspective. Bryan was beaten clean, Cesaro couldn't win, how will it be next week?
Roman's out here looking like Thanos. Guess we'll find out.
But I'm pretty sure this isn't happening next week and if it does then yeah, there'd be no reason for it to happen this week. This week's supposed to be seen as the worst. If it happens next week guaranteed I'll be back in here and yeah I'll agree with the laziness of these week by week beatdowns. I can get how that's annoying to people. Just doesn't bother me personally.
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Chiral
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Post by Chiral on Apr 30, 2021 22:34:49 GMT -5
Here's something they could do that I'd dig; Roman needs the kind of moment like Orton got against Cactus Jack in 04. Like this moment right here: For months and months Orton called out Foley, beat up Foley, spat in his face, beat him at Wrestlemania. It all fed into his cocky unbeatable personality. But then he woke up Cactus Jack, and still thought he could go at the same level in a hardcore match as him. Then in this moment it wasn't about him besting this old loser anymore, it was about him surviving. Foley beat his ass up and down for the rest of the match and it was so cathartic. Orton still won the match and held the IC title for months after, but he wasn't the same guy anymore after the match. He needs that ass beating character level up moment. Not specifically that he needs to fall on thumbtacks or get beat up in a hardcore match but he needs some kind of threat that actually forces him past that like "I'm the best nobody can beat me you're all losers told you I'd win STACK EM UP" stuff. Another thing that is tough is the Jey feud was legit brilliant compelling storytelling and following that up is a tall order, and the Owens feud, the Edge/Bryan feud (Not counting the Drew feud I don't think they really had a storyline going with that) just didn't have the same writing touch to them IMO. Reigns was basically a side character in the Edge/Bryan one until WM, and the Owens feud was messy as they added more matches to it. Theoretically, the impending Cesaro match could be this. A match where this absolute wrestling machine goes to town on Roman, who barely wins -- without Jey getting his nose into things -- is where I'd go. Yeah like the Cesaro swing in itself COULD be that thing. Have Seth get in his ear about how he absolutely can't let Cesaro hit him with the swing, and he brushes it off because Seth is just a weirdly dressed man now and it would never happen to him. In the match, Roman gets outwrestled, outplayed Shinsuke takes out Jey backstage or something, and on top of it Roman gets the swing, getting humiliated the same way Seth did. He can survive it with his cunning and dickheaditude, but then the egg is on his face and he could have that veneer crack again for the first time in a looong time. (Man remember how great it was early on in the Jey feud when Roman kept completely snapping and showing signs he had gone completely insane)
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Post by A Platypus Rave is Correct on Apr 30, 2021 22:47:07 GMT -5
Theoretically, the impending Cesaro match could be this. A match where this absolute wrestling machine goes to town on Roman, who barely wins -- without Jey getting his nose into things -- is where I'd go. Yeah like the Cesaro swing in itself COULD be that thing. Have Seth get in his ear about how he absolutely can't let Cesaro hit him with the swing, and he brushes it off because Seth is just a weirdly dressed man now and it would never happen to him. In the match, Roman gets outwrestled, outplayed Shinsuke takes out Jey backstage or something, and on top of it Roman gets the swing, getting humiliated the same way Seth did. He can survive it with his cunning and dickheaditude, but then the egg is on his face and he could have that veneer crack again for the first time in a looong time. (Man remember how great it was early on in the Jey feud when Roman kept completely snapping and showing signs he had gone completely insane) Yeah, it showed how deep his character was... that almost all of this was a front. That all of his talk of being the head of the table and he was doing this for the family and everything was bullshit. Like he needed Jey to acknowledge him because he was actually unsure of himself... you could have tied it into things like he was never able to beat Brock as decisively as Drew or Seth.... or that he was worried that he couldn't keep up with the new guns on the roster since he time off... etc. Instead like ALL Of that disappeared immediately after the Jey feud and they just stuck to ... and then Jey runs in and causes the challenger to lose.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2021 23:00:07 GMT -5
Yeah like the Cesaro swing in itself COULD be that thing. Have Seth get in his ear about how he absolutely can't let Cesaro hit him with the swing, and he brushes it off because Seth is just a weirdly dressed man now and it would never happen to him. In the match, Roman gets outwrestled, outplayed Shinsuke takes out Jey backstage or something, and on top of it Roman gets the swing, getting humiliated the same way Seth did. He can survive it with his cunning and dickheaditude, but then the egg is on his face and he could have that veneer crack again for the first time in a looong time. (Man remember how great it was early on in the Jey feud when Roman kept completely snapping and showing signs he had gone completely insane) Yeah, it showed how deep his character was... that almost all of this was a front. That all of his talk of being the head of the table and he was doing this for the family and everything was bullshit. Like he needed Jey to acknowledge him because he was actually unsure of himself... you could have tied it into things like he was never able to beat Brock as decisively as Drew or Seth.... or that he was worried that he couldn't keep up with the new guns on the roster since he time off... etc. Instead like ALL Of that disappeared immediately after the Jey feud and they just stuck to ... and then Jey runs in and causes the challenger to lose. Roman's character seems so... confused. He plays it very well, but they're basically trying to make him Lesnar, 2001 Austin, and Jinder Mahal all at the same time and it's really weird. I feel like you should either lean into the self-doubt thing or lean into him essentially being a standard WWE unstoppable top face who's now decided to cheat on top of it basically making him an impossible hurdle, but instead most of the time he just kind of gets his ass kicked and wins anyway because no one's smart enough to bring along a friend to watch out for Jey.
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Post by A Platypus Rave is Correct on Apr 30, 2021 23:02:18 GMT -5
Yeah, it showed how deep his character was... that almost all of this was a front. That all of his talk of being the head of the table and he was doing this for the family and everything was bullshit. Like he needed Jey to acknowledge him because he was actually unsure of himself... you could have tied it into things like he was never able to beat Brock as decisively as Drew or Seth.... or that he was worried that he couldn't keep up with the new guns on the roster since he time off... etc. Instead like ALL Of that disappeared immediately after the Jey feud and they just stuck to ... and then Jey runs in and causes the challenger to lose. Roman's character seems so... confused. He plays it very well, but they're basically trying to make him Lesnar, 2001 Austin, and Jinder Mahal all at the same time and it's really weird. I feel like you should either lean into the self-doubt thing or lean into him essentially being a standard WWE unstoppable top face who's now decided to cheat on top of it basically making him an impossible hurdle, but instead most of the time he just kind of gets his ass kicked and wins anyway because no one's smart enough to bring along a friend to watch out for Jey. Said this elsewhere on the subject. As stated he needs to take some sort of roadblock... he hasn't for over half a year... he doesn't have to lose but he hasn't had any issues with like anything. At the very least this long in we shouldn't still be having the Roman's opponent has him almost beat and then Jey/Heyman interfere on his behalf. The faces or the people making the matches should have had an answer to that by now.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2021 23:07:57 GMT -5
For all we know, Cesaro actually beats Reigns which forces Reigns to turn into an even bigger heel where he gets the belt again shortly after and now instead of Jey he's got Jimmy behind him too. New theme, new heavy, new anger, stronger revolve. Now it'll be up to Big E (and his boys) to finish off Reigns and his goons.
Cesaro being a world champion, albeit a few days to a few weeks, would be dope. Afterwards you can draft him to Raw and let him tangle with the Lashleys, Wyatts, Sheamuss of the world.
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Rican
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Post by Rican on Apr 30, 2021 23:14:10 GMT -5
It’s getting old and stretching it out to Summerslam is probably pushing it, but the matches have been good and Roman is great in the world. I’m also willing to think of it in the bigger picture where depending on the ending it might justify the means. Like Lesnar dominating the Rumble sucked but it made Drew eliminating him a huge moment, and the reign of terror was awful but it made Batista right away when he definitely put Hunter away. So if that’s the fate of Cesaro or E that’d be cool.
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Post by Deleted on May 1, 2021 3:28:27 GMT -5
Nakamura should do it.
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Post by 4real on May 1, 2021 4:33:01 GMT -5
He’s held the belt for 8 months now and it’s easily been the best Universal Title reign since the title was introduced. I was happy that Roman won clean and without Jay’s help and I was fine with Cesaro getting tied in the ropes as it will get heat on Roman.
I think Cesaro will come close but don’t think he’s the man to end this title run. Im thinking either Big E or Rock. Hopefully Big E because Rock doesn’t need the title and the feud doesn’t either.
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Post by Alice Syndrome on May 1, 2021 13:27:07 GMT -5
Like, the nWo was cool and all, but even them destroying WCW stars every week got old. Honestly it's reminding me of when the Authority first started and so every single Raw and SmackDown both for like two months straight ended with Bryan getting the shit kicked out of him, except this has been going on four times as long. I took count at the time, it was genuinely the 4th Smackdown after SummerSlam before a single show ended with anything but Bryan being left laying by the Authority. Counting the PPV itself, that's 8 shows in a row, and all of them sucked.
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Post by Deleted on May 1, 2021 13:47:30 GMT -5
Said this in the other thread this title reign has officially reached it's apex...He has beaten just about everyone and ended Daniel Bryan on SD.
Cesaro NEEDS this and honestly so does Roman but in different ways.
Roman FINALLY needs an obstacle not the obvious one in Big E but he needs multiple...let Cesaro beat him for the title and fine then let him win it back at the next PPV then throw Nakamura at him where he BARELY escapes I mean like hold the tights desperation of cheating and then finally get to Big E because Romans reign is just a cycle of the same booking just different opponent because he has held it so long and the repetitiveness is becoming a bigger issue the longer it continues and for all the heat he has on him now....you have to captilaze and transfer it to someone and Cesaro will be permanently elevated if they allow it and then Big E if he to can dethrone Roman for the title at summerslam after Roman gets it back from Cesaro.
Cesaro needs this because with no more Bryan and Big E still a bit of ways off who else is there honestly...unless oh is that KO in the distance(screams of FAN horror in distance) the champion is only good as the slew he challengers he has and Romans pickings are becoming table scraps real quick.
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Post by Deleted on May 1, 2021 14:44:33 GMT -5
I'm just tired of super long title reigns in general. If you look at this from a kayfabe POV the person with the title is supposed to be constantly defending against world class opponents so it should be a miraculous achievement to hold on to a title for that length of time but in the past couple years we've had year or almost year long reigns from Roman, Drew, Bayley, Becky, Io, Shayna, Cole, WALTER and Kay Lee Ray. It's not rare or special at all.
If a boxing or MMA fighter for instance successfully defends their title 5 times it puts them in all-time great category because it's so rare. Fighters lose their title in their first defence all the time and it's expected because of the level of competition. In wrestling though it's been beaten into fans heads that someone losing their title in their first defence or even in the first 2-3 months is embarrassing.
That's why I was completely fine with the Drew to Miz to Lashley quick title switches recently and would even have been okay with Drew getting it back at Wrestlemania. I don't want to enter WCW 2000 territory and start having 20 world title changes a year but every now and then I think you need to throw something like that in to keep things fresh and give the illusion that anything can happen.
Roman has only appeared in front of live fans once so his heel run still feels fairly new in that regard but he's at 9 months as champ now and beat Braun, Fiend, Drew, Edge, Owens multiple times and Bryan multiple times so it's getting tedious. I think they had the perfect opportunity at Wrestlemania to break up the monotony for a bit while still saving Roman's true comeuppance for a later date. Have Bryan pin Edge to win the title and give fans a moment of catharsis and it causes Roman to snap and take it out on Edge for losing the match. Then we get Roman v Edge 1 on 1 while Bryan holds the title for a couple months then they do the match they did last night on PPV in June or something and Roman regains the title. Then they can build towards whoever's going to be the person to actually give Roman his first clean loss.
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Post by Deleted on May 1, 2021 14:47:08 GMT -5
It'll end up being worth it if Cesaro beats him for it. I'm not sure I can make it until SummerSlam, as great as Roman still is in his role to me.
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Post by Friday Night SmackOwn on May 1, 2021 14:49:20 GMT -5
It'll end up being worth it if Cesaro beats him for it. I'm not sure I can make it until SummerSlam, as great as Roman still is in his role to me. If we’re having this until SummerSlam, at least some balance in regards to how Roman’s being booked would be good. I don’t need to see him trouncing the faces every week.
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Gus Richlen: Ruffian
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Post by Gus Richlen: Ruffian on May 7, 2021 21:00:10 GMT -5
And Jimmy returns and seems to be at least on Jey's side.
AND CESARO WRECKS THE WHOLE f***ING FAMILY ANYWAY.
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Chiral
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Post by Chiral on May 7, 2021 21:04:12 GMT -5
Going back to Reigns/Uso family drama as well as Roman getting bested by Cesaro is more what I'm talking abouuuuuut.
Cesaro should win at Backlash even if it's just a short reign.
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Post by Deleted on May 7, 2021 21:05:23 GMT -5
I definitely think Cesaro should win at Backlash. Even if it's a short reign, it'd be making him as a main event face which SmackDown's in desperate need of and it'd be a good way to kick Roman's character to the next gear.
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