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Post by James Fabiano on Jan 17, 2024 20:00:27 GMT -5
And the 90s animated series gets good by the second season. How dare you! The first season of 90's Fantastic Four was AMAZING!!! Okay. Second season was unironically good.
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Post by thechase on Jan 18, 2024 2:19:09 GMT -5
And the 90s animated series gets good by the second season. How dare you! The first season of 90's Fantastic Four was AMAZING!!! I guarantee you if the MCU movie doesn't have THAT theme in the trailer, it's box office poison.
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tafkaga
Samurai Cop
the Dogfather
Posts: 2,115
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Post by tafkaga on Jan 18, 2024 13:04:20 GMT -5
I'm willing to concede that Superman III is terrible and also my favorite Superman movie. Richard Pryor, Annette O'Toole, evil Superman, scary cyborg lady... it's good fun.
Whoever said Superman works better as a TV series is onto something I think. As a lifelong Superman fan, I think one thing detractors don't 'get' about Superman is that it's very much an ensemble cast. The Superman comics I read in the 80's had subplots around Lois, Jimmy, Perry, and any number of other characters. It wasn't just about Superman punching stuff, but that's kinda where the movies go with him. Though, tbh, I really liked Man of Steel.
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Post by Tenshigure on Jan 18, 2024 15:33:36 GMT -5
Whoever said Superman works better as a TV series is onto something I think. As a lifelong Superman fan, I think one thing detractors don't 'get' about Superman is that it's very much an ensemble cast. The Superman comics I read in the 80's had subplots around Lois, Jimmy, Perry, and any number of other characters. It wasn't just about Superman punching stuff, but that's kinda where the movies go with him. Though, tbh, I really liked Man of Steel.
Honestly the biggest problem that the majority of the modern-day Superman movies have is they've completely forgotten what makes the balance between Clark and Superman so important. They put the franchise in the hands of a guy whose strength is action scenes and dreary backdrops, and one of those two simply just do not have a place in a huge chunk of Superman's stories. I'm not saying he doesn't have his down days, but the character is supposed to be a symbol of hope in the face of conflict and adversity. Combine that with the fact that the stakes for superhero movies are expected to be at a galactic level as opposed to more nuanced and localized, and you're dealing with an audience who can't accept a "minor villain" being such a headache for a character simply because they built the world too vast for the hero to either have inexplicable difficulty to fight against, or they have to turn it inwards and make the character "battle his inner demons" or some other nonsense to compensate.
One often cited example of how to do the character justice is Captain America. At his core, it's a cheesy dated hero that is more boy scout than action star, BUT they made it work by not creating the conflict for the character internal, rather the world around him. Winter Soldier showed you can have an upbeat and positive main character and still resonate against the darkness of the antagonist he's facing against. Same thing with Civil War, where Cap's actions wasn't necessarily of sound mind (just following orders) but rather it was staying true to hsi character in despite of defying even his closest of allies. When Zemo has proven to be a bigger success than freaking Zod, you know you have issues.
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tafkaga
Samurai Cop
the Dogfather
Posts: 2,115
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Post by tafkaga on Jan 18, 2024 15:59:59 GMT -5
Whoever said Superman works better as a TV series is onto something I think. As a lifelong Superman fan, I think one thing detractors don't 'get' about Superman is that it's very much an ensemble cast. The Superman comics I read in the 80's had subplots around Lois, Jimmy, Perry, and any number of other characters. It wasn't just about Superman punching stuff, but that's kinda where the movies go with him. Though, tbh, I really liked Man of Steel.
Honestly the biggest problem that the majority of the modern-day Superman movies have is they've completely forgotten what makes the balance between Clark and Superman so important. They put the franchise in the hands of a guy whose strength is action scenes and dreary backdrops, and one of those two simply just do not have a place in a huge chunk of Superman's stories. I'm not saying he doesn't have his down days, but the character is supposed to be a symbol of hope in the face of conflict and adversity. Combine that with the fact that the stakes for superhero movies are expected to be at a galactic level as opposed to more nuanced and localized, and you're dealing with an audience who can't accept a "minor villain" being such a headache for a character simply because they built the world too vast for the hero to either have inexplicable difficulty to fight against, or they have to turn it inwards and make the character "battle his inner demons" or some other nonsense to compensate.
One often cited example of how to do the character justice is Captain America. At his core, it's a cheesy dated hero that is more boy scout than action star, BUT they made it work by not creating the conflict for the character internal, rather the world around him. Winter Soldier showed you can have an upbeat and positive main character and still resonate against the darkness of the antagonist he's facing against. Same thing with Civil War, where Cap's actions wasn't necessarily of sound mind (just following orders) but rather it was staying true to hsi character in despite of defying even his closest of allies. When Zemo has proven to be a bigger success than freaking Zod, you know you have issues.
I also think Superman workes better as a more nuanced character, and comic book movies just don't do nuance very well. The fact that many see him as just being boring or OP is a credit to how poorly he's been translated to the screen. Batman works because he's a costumed iteration of a winning formula we've all seen a million times in westerns, crime movies, etc. Superman almost has to be dumbed down, stripped of every nuance, and almost made into a caricature to fit the mold of comic book movie. In fairness, silver age Superman comics were all the things we hate about Superman, but there's been a good 30+ years worth of Superman written since then that could be mined for good stories.
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Post by Lizuka #BLM on Jan 18, 2024 16:24:01 GMT -5
Yeah, the best Superman works are the ones that really take their time to explore what makes the character tick and what his role in the world is. There have been absolutely been great Superman adaptations in the past couple decades, but it's been stuff like My Adventures With Superman and Superman vs. The Elite rather than the big-money projects.
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