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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Jun 14, 2021 12:00:33 GMT -5
I really, really don't see how some are just taking it as a given that this was a calculated move by WWE to release Joe, then sign him back for less. There's no planet where NJPW, AEW, Impact, and ROH didn't at least put out a feeler to hire Joe. Even if Joe is going to be used in a mostly non-wrestling/part-time role, WWE literally just got outbid on two guys I think we all assumed were positioned as WWE lifers in Mark Henry and Big Show. Unless Joe just agreed to restructure his deal, because he was happy in the WWE and was willing to take less, there's just no way that Joe didn't come into these "new" negotiations with a huge amount of leverage that he wouldn't have otherwise had. Joe had the leverage If he wanted to leave, he would have left and made a shit ton of money. He probably is earning a little more than his previous contract with WWE but probably took less to stay with them He's made a home in WWE for the last 6 years and I would not be surprised if he is HHH go to guy for NXT if Regal starts to step away more. This could essentially be a "life time position"
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Post by No One on Jun 14, 2021 12:08:36 GMT -5
What's Polynesia Joseph doing in the NXT Zone?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2021 12:08:41 GMT -5
I really, really don't see how some are just taking it as a given that this was a calculated move by WWE to release Joe, then sign him back for less. There's no planet where NJPW, AEW, Impact, and ROH didn't at least put out a feeler to hire Joe. Even if Joe is going to be used in a mostly non-wrestling/part-time role, WWE literally just got outbid on two guys I think we all assumed were positioned as WWE lifers in Mark Henry and Big Show. Unless Joe just agreed to restructure his deal, because he was happy in the WWE and was willing to take less, there's just no way that Joe didn't come into these "new" negotiations with a huge amount of leverage that he wouldn't have otherwise had. “Outbid”on Henry and Show is probably a strong word to use, when the E likely had little interest in using them and haven’t been using them in a long time. As to Joe‘s leverage, that really depends a lot on whether he’s cleared to wrestle or not. Can’t imagine he’d be getting a huge raise on his prior wrestling deal if he is still not cleared yet. I disagree, unless we take as a given that WWE has completely reversed course on its prior policy of paying premium to keep guys with name value out of other companies. Big Show, love him or hate him, is one of the biggest stars in pro wrestling history (no pun intended), just had a Netflix show, and is especially adept at PR-type stuff. All of the press after AEW announced his signing was that it was a massive shock, and that WWE had been trying to keep him in the fold. If reports are to be believed, Orton just leveraged the existence of AEW into a larger contract with WWE. It's just hard for me to buy that WWE took a calculated risk to release Samoa Joe into the open market, knowing that he would be one of the hottest free agents on an open market that has at least three, and maybe four, companies with deep pockets who would love to sign him, and that that calculated risk worked out and WWE was able to immediately bring Joe back at a greatly reduced rate of pay. Maybe Vince really is that good, but I highly doubt it. Seems more likely that certain WWE officials released Joe without consulting certain other WWE officials, and WWE had to hustle to hire him back on. This is the same company that just released Aleister Black literal days after rolling out a brand new promo package for him. Disorganization seems to be a way more plausible explanation for this than business acumen.
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Post by MrElijah on Jun 14, 2021 12:09:39 GMT -5
Joe: As the new GM, there's only one rule: GET DOWN OR LAY DOWN. I ain’t Billy Regal, so best believe I will slap fire out of anyone of you idiots. Any questions? Kross: Do you really think you're in Charge? Joe: According to your mother, yes! Now any NON-Dumbass questions? I now want Samoa Joe as Beanie Siegel from State Property I mean he pretty much is.
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Post by eJm on Jun 14, 2021 12:10:41 GMT -5
I really, really don't see how some are just taking it as a given that this was a calculated move by WWE to release Joe, then sign him back for less. There's no planet where NJPW, AEW, Impact, and ROH didn't at least put out a feeler to hire Joe. Even if Joe is going to be used in a mostly non-wrestling/part-time role, WWE literally just got outbid on two guys I think we all assumed were positioned as WWE lifers in Mark Henry and Big Show. Unless Joe just agreed to restructure his deal, because he was happy in the WWE and was willing to take less, there's just no way that Joe didn't come into these "new" negotiations with a huge amount of leverage that he wouldn't have otherwise had. Joe had the leverage If he wanted to leave, he would have left and made a shit ton of money. He probably is earning a little more than his previous contract with WWE but probably took less to stay with them He's made a home in WWE for the last 6 years and I would not be surprised if he is HHH go to guy for NXT if Regal starts to step away more. This could essentially be a "life time position" Also, not being funny, if they wanted to re-negotiate Joe’s contract…they’d re-negotiate Joe’s contract. If you fire someone and then try to do it, that just leaves them more open to just go somewhere else because it right away seems like you’re unwanted.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2021 12:15:09 GMT -5
What a bunch of Marks.
"It's so funny to me sometimes how in our business, everyone is so worried about where someone is going to go or land or how is this going to play out long-term in the future. How about watch it? Do you like it or do you not like it? Do you have to say 'I like it, but I like this other thing more." Just watch it or don't."
"And stop trying to figure out where everything goes. Fans ruin their own stuff half the time trying to figure out where everything goes and why it's going there and how, and then trying to pick up their phone and search for the thing to find out what it is can ruin it for them so they aren't surprised when it happens. I don't understand that."
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Jun 14, 2021 12:15:22 GMT -5
Joe had the leverage If he wanted to leave, he would have left and made a shit ton of money. He probably is earning a little more than his previous contract with WWE but probably took less to stay with them He's made a home in WWE for the last 6 years and I would not be surprised if he is HHH go to guy for NXT if Regal starts to step away more. This could essentially be a "life time position" Also, not being funny, if they wanted to re-negotiate Joe’s contract…they’d re-negotiate Joe’s contract. If you fire someone and then try to do it, that just leaves them more open to just go somewhere else because it right away seems like you’re unwanted. The rumor was Joe wanted to wrestle and WWE wouldn't clear him. It speaks to the lack of communication because as I pointed out before, HHH happily takes back "his people" if they want to come back to NXT Joe made out great. WWE put themselves in this position instead of considering all options. HHH said some stupid shit last week but in a sense I got his frustration with shit like this where he is playing clean up NXT/PC makes out good as Joe could easily traveled and did his thing. WWE looks f***ing stupid because their internal processes is messy
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Post by Final Countdown Jones on Jun 14, 2021 12:16:13 GMT -5
Joe had the leverage If he wanted to leave, he would have left and made a shit ton of money. He probably is earning a little more than his previous contract with WWE but probably took less to stay with them He's made a home in WWE for the last 6 years and I would not be surprised if he is HHH go to guy for NXT if Regal starts to step away more. This could essentially be a "life time position" Also, not being funny, if they wanted to re-negotiate Joe’s contract…they’d re-negotiate Joe’s contract. If you fire someone and then try to do it, that just leaves them more open to just go somewhere else because it right away seems like you’re unwanted. If Joe had no hope of being cleared again, it would have been dead simple to say "Look, we want to keep you around but we're paying you on a wrestler contract for backstage and commentary stuff" and moved him to a deal for non-wrestling stuff, keeping image and merch rights so he can be in video games and get shirts and junk, but easing him into that new position. There's a path to do that, and obviously "Hey we wanna pay you less" isn't what anyone wants to hear, but if there's sincerely no hope for the guy then he doesn't have the room to complain. Especially since they can offer him a renewed contrat period in this role where he doesn't have to worry about his health and he has the peace of mind to know he's got good employment (in theory) for years to come even with his body broken down. For someone at his age and in his potential shape, that'd be huge. If this was a 'pay him less' stunt it wouldn't have jumped before his no-compete was even over.
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Gus Richlen Was Wrong
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Post by Gus Richlen Was Wrong on Jun 14, 2021 12:18:26 GMT -5
Good.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2021 12:18:34 GMT -5
What a bunch of Marks. "It's so funny to me sometimes how in our business, everyone is so worried about where someone is going to go or land or how is this going to play out long-term in the future. How about watch it? Do you like it or do you not like it? Do you have to say 'I like it, but I like this other thing more." Just watch it or don't." "And stop trying to figure out where everything goes. Fans ruin their own stuff half the time trying to figure out where everything goes and why it's going there and how, and then trying to pick up their phone and search for the thing to find out what it is can ruin it for them so they aren't surprised when it happens. I don't understand that." Well, this mark does not like it, so this mark rarely watches. This mark will, however, discuss things that pertain to wrestling in a wrestling forum. Especially things this outwardly mind-boggling.
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Post by eJm on Jun 14, 2021 12:19:39 GMT -5
Also, not being funny, if they wanted to re-negotiate Joe’s contract…they’d re-negotiate Joe’s contract. If you fire someone and then try to do it, that just leaves them more open to just go somewhere else because it right away seems like you’re unwanted. The rumor was Joe wanted to wrestle and WWE wouldn't clear him. It speaks to the lack of communication because as I pointed out before, HHH happily takes back "his people" if they want to come back to NXT Joe made out great. WWE put themselves in this position instead of considering all options. HHH said some stupid shit last week but in a sense I got his frustration with shit like this where he is playing clean up NXT/PC makes out good as Joe could easily traveled and did his thing. WWE looks f***ing stupid because their internal processes is messy It’s more surprising because one of the reasons they signed people and kept them on long contracts was because of the growing indie scene and rival promotions etc and keeping an eye on that… …And you’re going to tell me nobody in WWE paid attention to the fact that all three of its competitors (AEW, Impact, ROH) were all going to be back on tour by the time the 90 days for the released people would end? Like, that’s not to say many of those people are game-changers but they could easily be with the right booking.
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Post by polarbearpete on Jun 14, 2021 12:23:41 GMT -5
“Outbid”on Henry and Show is probably a strong word to use, when the E likely had little interest in using them and haven’t been using them in a long time. As to Joe‘s leverage, that really depends a lot on whether he’s cleared to wrestle or not. Can’t imagine he’d be getting a huge raise on his prior wrestling deal if he is still not cleared yet. I disagree, unless we take as a given that WWE has completely reversed course on its prior policy of paying premium to keep guys with name value out of other companies. Big Show, love him or hate him, is one of the biggest stars in pro wrestling history (no pun intended), just had a Netflix show, and is especially adept at PR-type stuff. All of the press after AEW announced his signing was that it was a massive shock, and that WWE had been trying to keep him in the fold. If reports are to be believed, Orton just leveraged the existence of AEW into a larger contract with WWE. It's just hard for me to buy that WWE took a calculated risk to release Samoa Joe into the open market, knowing that he would be one of the hottest free agents on an open market that has at least three, and maybe four, companies with deep pockets who would love to sign him, and that that calculated risk worked out and WWE was able to immediately bring Joe back at a greatly reduced rate of pay. Maybe Vince really is that good, but I highly doubt it. Seems more likely that certain WWE officials released Joe without consulting certain other WWE officials, and WWE had to hustle to hire him back on. This is the same company that just released Aleister Black literal days after rolling out a brand new promo package for him. Disorganization seems to be a way more plausible explanation for this than business acumen. Oh I have no doubt this is due to disorganization when it comes to NXT/Triple H not really knowing what’s going on with main roster corporate. Just saying this may not be a case that they had to significantly increase his contract to get him back, especially if he seems to be interested/cleared to have non-wrestling roles only.
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Jun 14, 2021 12:24:47 GMT -5
The rumor was Joe wanted to wrestle and WWE wouldn't clear him. It speaks to the lack of communication because as I pointed out before, HHH happily takes back "his people" if they want to come back to NXT Joe made out great. WWE put themselves in this position instead of considering all options. HHH said some stupid shit last week but in a sense I got his frustration with shit like this where he is playing clean up NXT/PC makes out good as Joe could easily traveled and did his thing. WWE looks f***ing stupid because their internal processes is messy It’s more surprising because one of the reasons they signed people and kept them on long contracts was because of the growing indie scene and rival promotions etc and keeping an eye on that… …And you’re going to tell me nobody in WWE paid attention to the fact that all three of its competitors (AEW, Impact, ROH) were all going to be back on tour by the time the 90 days for the released people would end? Like, that’s not to say many of those people are game-changers but they could easily be with the right booking. Samoa Joe despite being broken down is still a big name and he may not move the needle in a big way but to have him on your roster is a big time bonus Like I said this speaks to the lack of communication. Well Joe wants to wrestle but we won't clear him so let's cut him and save that money. Wait a f***ing minute. Did you at least counter and say well, we can't do that but we can put you in a big position and we will keep the door open on you wrestling. I'm all for releasing people who aren't happy. It doesn't seem like Joe was unhappy he just wanted more and a last hurrah for his career. When you cut people like him, Black, etc good people in the locker room it looks dumb when you hear we are bringing them right back. HHH picked up that phone right away and called and i'm sure some people in the locker room was also like yeah we want this man back WWE can't stay out their own way which is why stupid shit like this happens
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2021 12:31:25 GMT -5
I disagree, unless we take as a given that WWE has completely reversed course on its prior policy of paying premium to keep guys with name value out of other companies. Big Show, love him or hate him, is one of the biggest stars in pro wrestling history (no pun intended), just had a Netflix show, and is especially adept at PR-type stuff. All of the press after AEW announced his signing was that it was a massive shock, and that WWE had been trying to keep him in the fold. If reports are to be believed, Orton just leveraged the existence of AEW into a larger contract with WWE. It's just hard for me to buy that WWE took a calculated risk to release Samoa Joe into the open market, knowing that he would be one of the hottest free agents on an open market that has at least three, and maybe four, companies with deep pockets who would love to sign him, and that that calculated risk worked out and WWE was able to immediately bring Joe back at a greatly reduced rate of pay. Maybe Vince really is that good, but I highly doubt it. Seems more likely that certain WWE officials released Joe without consulting certain other WWE officials, and WWE had to hustle to hire him back on. This is the same company that just released Aleister Black literal days after rolling out a brand new promo package for him. Disorganization seems to be a way more plausible explanation for this than business acumen. Oh I have no doubt this is due to disorganization when it comes to NXT/Triple H not really knowing what’s going on with main roster corporate. Just saying this may not be a case that they had to significantly increase his contract to get him back, especially if he seems to be interested/cleared to have non-wrestling roles only. Agreed, there. I am just balking at the notion that WWE did this deliberately for the purpose of signing Joe back more cheaply.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2021 12:32:50 GMT -5
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Post by Mochi Lone Wolf on Jun 14, 2021 12:38:11 GMT -5
What was the point in releasing him in the first place, then?
Vince probably forgot he did within 24 hours.
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Post by 01010010 01101001 01100011 on Jun 14, 2021 12:41:22 GMT -5
What was the point in releasing him in the first place, then? Vince probably forgot he did within 24 hours. I'm guessing Nick Khan did it because they had plenty of announcers and Hunter has been trying to fix it since. Wouldn't shock me if he was behind the move to rehire Alistair Black as well.
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Post by polarbearpete on Jun 14, 2021 12:47:15 GMT -5
Oh I have no doubt this is due to disorganization when it comes to NXT/Triple H not really knowing what’s going on with main roster corporate. Just saying this may not be a case that they had to significantly increase his contract to get him back, especially if he seems to be interested/cleared to have non-wrestling roles only. Agreed, there. I am just balking at the notion that WWE did this deliberately for the purpose of signing Joe back more cheaply. Yeah I don’t think that’s accurate at all, or he would’ve been re-signed much sooner.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2021 12:51:20 GMT -5
To be honest I didn't even look this up, I got a random Twitter post notification for an account I don't even follow on my phone, with the headline.
What do you say about that HHH.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2021 12:57:55 GMT -5
Also, not being funny, if they wanted to re-negotiate Joe’s contract…they’d re-negotiate Joe’s contract. If you fire someone and then try to do it, that just leaves them more open to just go somewhere else because it right away seems like you’re unwanted. The rumor was Joe wanted to wrestle and WWE wouldn't clear him. It speaks to the lack of communication because as I pointed out before, HHH happily takes back "his people" if they want to come back to NXT Joe made out great. WWE put themselves in this position instead of considering all options. HHH said some stupid shit last week but in a sense I got his frustration with shit like this where he is playing clean up NXT/PC makes out good as Joe could easily traveled and did his thing. WWE looks f***ing stupid because their internal processes is messy It is what it feels like is going on now....WWE is f***ing up and HHH is having to clean up their mess by hiring his guys back. He is probably happy he gets his kids back but having to go through this bullshit of learning they were fired first is not his prefered way to do it. Next on the list...Sami , Kevin and Asuka.
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