Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Jul 29, 2021 1:21:46 GMT -5
I'm thinking theyre gonna have Christian take on Omega for All Out for the name value and to get that match out of the way before Hangman straps up. Theyve been building Christian vs Omega slowly I really don't think that's happening. Christian has been attached to Jungle Boy. Maybe Christian becomes Page's final hurdle. But there is no way Omega/Page isn't the All Out main event.
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Post by Oh Cry Me a Screwball on Jul 29, 2021 1:26:29 GMT -5
I'm thinking theyre gonna have Christian take on Omega for All Out for the name value and to get that match out of the way before Hangman straps up. Theyve been building Christian vs Omega slowly I really don't think that's happening. Christian has been attached to Jungle Boy. Maybe Christian becomes Page's final hurdle. But there is no way Omega/Page isn't the All Out main event. Christian has been in a total midcard angle palling around with Jurassic Express feuding with Matt Hardy and his band of midcarders. There is absolutely no set up that puts Christian Cage, or anyone else on the roster for that matter, in the main event spot against Omega.
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Post by Duke Cameron on Jul 29, 2021 1:31:42 GMT -5
I haven’t really been interested enough to watch AEW on a weekly basis like I used to and this match kind of killed any chance of me returning to that habit anytime soon.
I’m just not enjoying their booking/writing lately and I find myself not caring.
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lucas_lee
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Post by lucas_lee on Jul 29, 2021 2:11:13 GMT -5
It was UGLY salty. And UGLY sniping. Like the kind of salty that for the longest time didn’t seem to show up in AEW posts. The kind of salty that resulted in a pretty stern warning in the live thread directed at literally (not in the hyperbole sense…in the very literal sense) everyone active in the thread. Not our collective best moment for sure. It was ugly, it reminded me of the TNA section the countless amount of complains that the section became "Lets mock TNA" section due to fans giving up on the product. I will admit that I bothered a bit that Hangman lost but not the point that I was going to give up on the show After reading the thread yeah that got really ugly. I think sometimes people should be allowed to criticize AEW without them having to defend their opinions, some people just want to vent. I had a feeling eventually the booking would rear its ugly head. Just remember that this isnt the end of the story. Once its done it can be throughly picked apart, also hating the journey to get towards the ending is valid too .
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Dub H
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Post by Dub H on Jul 29, 2021 2:20:09 GMT -5
It was ugly, it reminded me of the TNA section the countless amount of complains that the section became "Lets mock TNA" section due to fans giving up on the product. I will admit that I bothered a bit that Hangman lost but not the point that I was going to give up on the show After reading the thread yeah that got really ugly. I think sometimes people should be allowed to criticize AEW without them having to defend their opinions, some people just want to vent. I had a feeling eventually the booking would rear its ugly head. Just remember that this isnt the end of the story. Once its done it can be throughly picked apart, also hating the journey to get towards the ending is valid too . If you are critize/ vent it makes no sense to want no one to say their opinion.To place the blame.in one of the two groups and not the mad lads.is kinda dishonest. This for example was a very civil thread If you wanna vent,vent,just dont answer the replies defending it,say your piece and move on,no need for back and forth.That makes no sense. To say people should be allowesd to critize but people arent allowed to defend is bordeline censoring.If people are civil ,critique and venting is not an issue
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lucas_lee
Hank Scorpio
Heel turn is finished, now stripping away my personality
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Post by lucas_lee on Jul 29, 2021 2:21:23 GMT -5
After reading the thread yeah that got really ugly. I think sometimes people should be allowed to criticize AEW without them having to defend their opinions, some people just want to vent. I had a feeling eventually the booking would rear its ugly head. Just remember that this isnt the end of the story. Once its done it can be throughly picked apart, also hating the journey to get towards the ending is valid too . If you are critize/ vent it makes no sense to want no one to say their opinion.To place the blame.in one of the two groups and not the mad lads.is kinda dishonest. This for example was a very civil thread If you wanna vent,vent,just dont answer the replies defending it,say your piece and move on,no need for back and forth.That makes no sense. Some people just can't ignore it and to be honest a lot of the hardcore defenders kinda kick things off with really uneccesary snarky answers.
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Dub H
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Captain Pixel: the Game Master
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Post by Dub H on Jul 29, 2021 2:25:22 GMT -5
If you are critize/ vent it makes no sense to want no one to say their opinion.To place the blame.in one of the two groups and not the mad lads.is kinda dishonest. This for example was a very civil thread If you wanna vent,vent,just dont answer the replies defending it,say your piece and move on,no need for back and forth.That makes no sense. Some people just can't ignore it and to be honest a lot of the hardcore defenders kinda kick things off with really uneccesary snarky answers. So it sounda you came into the discussion to just kinda flame the side you dont like when you so that We were having a civil discussion in thia threas,nothing like the live thread.No reason to try to attack sides.If people cant ignore,that is the issue of the person. edit" sorry didnt mean into the thread,that ia just not true.Just the comment approaching it,anyway Im gonna drop it,i Already derailed enough
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Jul 29, 2021 2:28:55 GMT -5
If you are critize/ vent it makes no sense to want no one to say their opinion.To place the blame.in one of the two groups and not the mad lads.is kinda dishonest. This for example was a very civil thread If you wanna vent,vent,just dont answer the replies defending it,say your piece and move on,no need for back and forth.That makes no sense. Some people just can't ignore it and to be honest a lot of the hardcore defenders kinda kick things off with really uneccesary snarky answers. When the hatred is snarky too and coming down hard on something that very clearly is going somewhere? That's why the thread turned into a gigantic mess. Valid criticism wasn't even the problem in the thread (We've seen plenty here with no problem) the issue was people being so overdramatic they gave up on the show, called AEW a shitty company, and even quit the proboard. Stuff like that invites snark and invites argument and did until the Mods ended it. And people defending it being called stuff like bootlickers wasn't exactly stimulating the conversation either. It was a shitty situation on both ends stemming from something that frankly might make complete sense and be rectified the next week and going forward which makes it even crazier to think about.
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lucas_lee
Hank Scorpio
Heel turn is finished, now stripping away my personality
Posts: 6,707
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Post by lucas_lee on Jul 29, 2021 2:29:25 GMT -5
Some people just can't ignore it and to be honest a lot of the hardcore defenders kinda kick things off with really uneccesary snarky answers. So it sounda you came into the discussion to just kinda flame the side you dont like when you so that We were having a civil discussion in thia threas,nothing like the live thread.No reason to try to attack sides.If people cant ignore,that is the issue of the person. edit" sorry didnt mean into the thread,that ia just not true.Just the comment approaching it,anyway Im gonna drop it,i Already derailed enough With all due respect, I get what you're saying but you have to look at from the POV of others. And I'm just trying to explain things not flame, I dunno why you said what you said in that part.
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lucas_lee
Hank Scorpio
Heel turn is finished, now stripping away my personality
Posts: 6,707
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Post by lucas_lee on Jul 29, 2021 2:32:37 GMT -5
Some people just can't ignore it and to be honest a lot of the hardcore defenders kinda kick things off with really uneccesary snarky answers. When the hatred is snarky too and coming down hard on something that very clearly is going somewhere? That's why the thread turned into a gigantic mess. Valid criticism wasn't even the problem in the thread (We've seen plenty here with no problem) the issue was people being so overdramatic they gave up on the show, called AEW a shitty company, and even quit the proboard. Stuff like that invites snark and invites argument and did until the Mods ended it. And people defending it being called stuff like bootlickers wasn't exactly stimulating the conversation either. It was a shitty situation on both ends stemming from something that frankly might make complete sense and be rectified the next week and going forward which makes it even crazier to think about. I'm glad the mods ended it but this was boiling for a while, eventually things are gonna explode and it did tonight, hopefully its the end of it. Its why I watch wrestling and choose not to partake in other fandoms I love (boxing,MMA, football) because the fandoms are out of control. But this so-called "war" has turned the fandom I love into a e-gang war on social media (here has been super tame) but I always see hot takes and super horrible condescending comments from both sides of the table on social and its exhausting to watch.
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
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Writer, Lover of all things Wrestling. Analytical, Critical, Lovable (hopefully). Lets all have fun!
Posts: 235,512
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Jul 29, 2021 2:36:47 GMT -5
When the hatred is snarky too and coming down hard on something that very clearly is going somewhere? That's why the thread turned into a gigantic mess. Valid criticism wasn't even the problem in the thread (We've seen plenty here with no problem) the issue was people being so overdramatic they gave up on the show, called AEW a shitty company, and even quit the proboard. Stuff like that invites snark and invites argument and did until the Mods ended it. And people defending it being called stuff like bootlickers wasn't exactly stimulating the conversation either. It was a shitty situation on both ends stemming from something that frankly might make complete sense and be rectified the next week and going forward which makes it even crazier to think about. I'm glad the mods ended it but this was boiling for a while, eventually things are gonna explode and it did tonight, hopefully its the end of it. Its why I watch wrestling and choose not to partake in other fandoms I love (boxing,MMA, football) because the fandoms are out of control. But this so-called "war" has turned the fandom I love into a e-gang war on social media (here has been super tame) but I always see hot takes and super horrible condescending comments from both sides of the table on social and its exhausting to watch. I'm right there with you. I take no pleasure in defending or arguing points when they're so heated and charged it feels like a minefield. The thread was ridiculous for a time and it only ended when certain people left... it's unfortunate the result pissed them off that much but it really is scary that it almost felt like some people were waiting for a booking decision to not go by the book to just try and rip AEW a new one or justify it as one of their first "big grand mistakes" where plenty did not see it that way and well... what ensued did ensue. It's nice seeing this thread go seven pages and be civil about the stances positive or negative to the ending. In the end the only thing we as fans can do is wait for the next storyline beat.
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lucas_lee
Hank Scorpio
Heel turn is finished, now stripping away my personality
Posts: 6,707
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Post by lucas_lee on Jul 29, 2021 2:38:54 GMT -5
I'm glad the mods ended it but this was boiling for a while, eventually things are gonna explode and it did tonight, hopefully its the end of it. Its why I watch wrestling and choose not to partake in other fandoms I love (boxing,MMA, football) because the fandoms are out of control. But this so-called "war" has turned the fandom I love into a e-gang war on social media (here has been super tame) but I always see hot takes and super horrible condescending comments from both sides of the table on social and its exhausting to watch. I'm right there with you. I take no pleasure in defending or arguing points when they're so heated and charged it feels like a minefield. The thread was ridiculous for a time and it only ended when certain people left... it's unfortunate the result pissed them off that much but it really is scary that it almost felt like some people were waiting for a booking decision to not go by the book to just try and rip AEW a new one or justify it as one of their first "big grand mistakes" where plenty did not see it that way and well... what ensued did ensue. It's nice seeing this thread go seven pages and be civil about the stances positive or negative to the ending. In the end the only thing we as fans can do is wait for the next storyline beat. I think the cooling off period really did help. And I'm cool with the ending, I really didn't mind it except that Omega wasn't DQ'd for touching the ref. Thats really the only thing that irked me.
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Post by This Player Hating Mothman on Jul 29, 2021 2:39:05 GMT -5
If he's THAT good, why does he need so many people to help him cheat to win? And don't just say "Because he's a heel, and they need to do that." Because while he's good, he's not the guy he was in New Japan. He didn't become this unstoppable monster in AEW until he started putting together the Super Elite. Look at the Winter is Coming main event, he was going to lose that match before Callis got involved. He would have lost at Revolution if not for Anderson and Gallows. Nakazawa and The Bucks have gotten him out of countless jams. He's dangerous because he has backup and that backup is guys he's been friends with for years, decades in some cases. It's not just that he has a wrestling stable, he has a wrestling fraternity and that's what makes him so damn dangerous. And that's why I believe Hangman's narrative this year with the Dark Order was designed to be a parallel to Kenny. The guy who needs his friends to help him win vs. the guy who just needs his friends to help him believe he can win. It's not about how good Kenny is, it's about how good Hangman is. And I'm willing to bet that he is better than Kenny at All Out. I see the parallels, but I think this actually runs a lot deeper still and not necesasarily just insofar as Kenny isn't who he was in Japan. Like, both Kenny and Hangman came into the company with a lot of buzz and very quickly fell to Chris Jericho. Two men seen as obvious world title aspirants failed, and the weight of that failure and of the expectation put on them was too great for either to deal with. Hangman became aimless, and Kenny began his feud with Moxley where he slowly went off the deep end and ultimately came up short. They found their confidence together, but Hangman's drinking problem not only a stress on their friendships with the Bucks, but the weapon by which they were divided and conquered by FTR. They were both left rudderless but ultimately met in the world title tournament, Kenny won out, but the opponent waiting for him at the end of the line was Moxley, a man who had already thoroughly defeated him and caused some of his crisis of confidence. So he turned to Callis for guidance, and Callis has built him up now as what he feels is the 'right' Kenny Omega. He helps him cheat, he gives him the play, he makes the moves to surround Kenny in the people who aren't really helping him. Gallows and Anderson come back, he manipulates the Young Bucks into joining him. Now Kenny is rebuilt. He has 'everything he needs', and that belief gives him a confidence that is entirely wrong and completely empty. Kenny has his wins that come without interference that pretty clearly state yeah, he still really is that good. Kenny regularly does things that prove he's as good as he thinks he is, but he's deluded in what he believes he's actually good for, and Callis feeds him lies about what he's doing and how great he is while giving him the guidance that keeps him like this. Kenny experiences no growth and no betterment because he sought out somebody who wanted to make him a shell of himself, and in turn surrounded himself in people who enable his worst aspects and keep that lie going. Kenny could be that good, but he's held back from it frequently by the antics and the empty emotional platitudes of a plan and a friend group who absolutely do nothing for him as a person. He cheats because he has to hold onto this confidence and because the people who say he's good tell him it's what he should do. Hangman didn't ask for the friends he has now. He didn't even really want them to start with. But they were there, holding him up, helping him, genuinely supporting and encouraging him, and they've given him the confidence to stand up to Kenny again. They didn't lie to him, they didn't cheat and beat people down and then say "Wow you really beat that guy all by yourself". Everything about the way Dark Order interacts with Kenny and uplifts him is genuinely about making him realize what he's capable of and tap into that potential. Kenny isn't even the man who needs his friends to win, he's the man who hid from himself and his insecurities, surrounded himself in lies, and is holding himself back because of it. They both have the potential, they're both really that good, but Kenny's confidence is more fragile and susceptible than Hangman's is. Hangman's depths were deeper, but he's the one with the strength to rise up from them. So in that regard, I totally get not liking the match outcome, I totally get not liking this story at all. That's all fine. But I think "Why does Kenny cheat if Kenny is so good?" kind of goes past actual criticism of the booking to just having contempt for there actually being depth to the character.
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Post by eJm on Jul 29, 2021 2:42:03 GMT -5
Guys, bringing it up repeatedly is what I also mean by not being civilized so I’m going to ask one more time to stop.
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Jul 29, 2021 2:49:13 GMT -5
Guys, bringing it up repeatedly is what I also mean by not being civilized so I’m going to ask one more time to stop. All good dude. If anything I'm glad the Mods didn't have to worry about anything in the end.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 29, 2021 4:17:37 GMT -5
I'm sure the payoff will happen eventually.
That wasn't what upset me. Hell, I knew Game of Thrones was going to start having villains pay for it eventually (even if the last season WAS garbage, but I digress). It was season after season of depressing shit up to the end that made it a slog, much like how I'm starting to feel about The Elite.
It just feels like someone really wanted this tag match for a heat spot when there was already plenty of heat to be had. There's a time and a place to take the wind out of an audience's sails, and this wasn't it. If they were just so damned hell-bent on getting TEH HEATZ BORTHER after this match, then it should have ended in a DQ once The Elite realized they were in danger of losing, then you have them take out Hangman's arm so he doesn't have his greatest weapon.
All in all, I just feel like it was comically over the top heat-booking which does not make for a good story, in my opinion. And if, as has been suggested by a few others in the live thread, that Tony Khan overturns the match or throws it out or whatever, I think it makes Hangman and DO look even WORSE, because now they need a Deus Ex Machina to come in and save them.
I'm sorry, I love AEW, I do. But I feel like this was a massive misstep, and what was once "Man, I can't wait for Hangman to win the title" has turned into "Jesus Christ, I can't wait for this Elite storyline to be over."
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Post by eJm on Jul 29, 2021 4:31:04 GMT -5
Having time to think about it, I'm conflicted.
Would I personally have done it? Probably not. There were pitches of the DO winning with Page getting eliminated so he didn't feel he earned it and having to prove it to himself by going out there and winning the belt and that's a good solid arc to tell. I'd say the problem with that is you might risk still having a DO team losing to build that hope up for Page to take it and I'm not sure if that's a right call either. Tickets are selling really well off the idea of Page/Omega so there would have been no harm pushing it over the line and confirming it.
On the other hand, as someone pointed out...there's about 5 weeks and 9 shows left (14 hours of TV, not even counting BTE and such) to book for and honestly...sort of wrapping my head about what to do after you have this team win. Do you have Page face Elite members before he gets to Hangman? Like, I'm sure it's fine for Gallows and Anderson to lose right now but you're likely keeping the Bucks strong for either one of the DO teams to win or PnP for Queens so having them lose in singles matches might not work so you're left in a bit of a bind about how to keep stuff interesting before the title match.
I'm willing to see where it goes because there's no good reason for it to not be Page/Omega at the end of it and the arc itself makes sense with how they've built it so...I won't call it a misfire until the story ends.
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Post by Andee9001 on Jul 29, 2021 5:16:05 GMT -5
I think it was played out well but my opinion might change depending on how it plays out in the end.
The Dark Order are underdogs and played it well. Stu and Silver came across really strong and Handman looked really strong too with the offense he took towards the end.
The Elite came across as douchey heels and played that role perfectly.
I just hope this isn't a repeat of what happened in TNA with Storm and Roode but i think they will do the right thing in the end. Hopefully.
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Post by eJm on Jul 29, 2021 5:27:44 GMT -5
I think it was played out well but my opinion might change depending on how it plays out in the end. I think that's just it. Right now, it's harder to tell because a) it's the first time AEW did an ending like this and b) the story isn't over so there's nothing to base it off yet. Like, it feels like it could go either way but it's not like with other companies where they have a built-in precedence and history and it's not fair to compare them to AEW (Yet) because they're so young. This could be the biggest deal in the company so far or it could be Jarrett/Raven.
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Post by Bang Bang Bart on Jul 29, 2021 5:39:20 GMT -5
I think it was played out well but my opinion might change depending on how it plays out in the end. I think that's just it. Right now, it's harder to tell because a) it's the first time AEW did an ending like this and b) the story isn't over so there's nothing to base it off yet. Like, it feels like it could go either way but it's not like with other companies where they have a built-in precedence and history and it's not fair to compare them to AEW (Yet) because they're so young. This could be the biggest deal in the company so far or it could be Jarrett/Raven. I assume/hope Khan and the EVPs know what they’re doing in delaying gratification until (presumably) September 5th.
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