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Post by Can you afford to pay me, Gah on Sept 10, 2021 14:03:00 GMT -5
The last part is correct, but I just don't want it at the expense at other underrepresented groups which is what my concern is when people discuss diversity,. Always feels like it comes down to discussing only in black and white terms while ignoring the others. As someone that is neither black or white, is something I noticed when discussing race matters when you don't fit either narrative people want and those at both ends go completely silent when its mentioned or move goalposts. And with AEW, at least I feel everyone is actually treated less of an actual stereotype which in my opinion is why I continue to have any doubts of WWE handling most Asian wrestlers correctly (and I like how Ali and Nakamura have been handled). They've done better, but still. Right. Everybody needs to be represented correctly in all races. I'm black so I'm speaking from my perspective mostly but with that said I do think that whether you're Hispanic, black, hell you can be purple whatever, you can be from Mars. At the end of the day you're someone who represents a group of people. It's bigger than black wrestlers and white wrestlers, I'm just speaking from my POV because I can't speak on anyone else's. AEW, even if there might be less stereotypes (to a degree) from a black perspective when I see Hit Row, New Day, Lashley, Bianca, Street Profits, Sasha, they're not stereotypes, they're legit people who I've seen all my life and that's a far greater thing that I love to see compared to the Cryme Tyme days. Once we see more black wrestlers in great positions with a multitude of characters in AEW I'll love it but that just isn't now. As for WWE and Asian wrestlers, they're still behind the times when it comes to how they're mostly portrayed. Even subtle things like Asuka speaking Japanese and other wrestlers looking "confused and disgusted" is incredibly nasty. It took years before they finally did black wrestlers correctly so needless to say it'll take years before others are done amazingly well too. Will Hobbs as been booked as a all business badass. For a guy who very few knew anything about a year ago, he been coming a long way. Ricky Starks very talented and has all the tools to be a top guy, again its getting the established first because unless you watched the NWA on youtube in 2019, most may not know who he was but the match with Cody he looked amazing and got him noticed. They done a good job with him I think with team Taz. That takes time to do. AEW is 3 years old. That not a lot of time to make guys. Hell Hobbs and Starks didn't start right away. They started last Summer. People forgetting the fact Starks been in the company a year and Hobbs came after him. Scorpio Sky was the first Tag champion and even now in a big role it seems like with the UFC guy. He got to face Sting in Sting first live crowd non cinematic match since his match in WWE. Thats a big spot to be put in. The thing is most of the black talent are from the indies who a lot of fans didn't know about. They where not ex WWE, TNA, or anything like that. They where right out of the indies. So they need a lot more time to build and I don't think AEW has done a bad job in doing that. |
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Ultimo Gallos
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
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Posts: 15,601 
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Post by Ultimo Gallos on Sept 10, 2021 14:06:54 GMT -5
I mentioned Miro and Andrade as possible breakthrough cases Well yeah, but Miro's not a PoC. A lot of people from southern and eastern Europe are just swarthy; Bulgaria's not an edge case like Albania or Turkey. I understand this literally makes AEW's top-of-card diversity worse but it's an important misconception to clear up because a lot of people seem to be under the impression he's not 'white', however you want to approach that term. I was wondering why Miro was mentioned. Hell I'm more of a PoC than Miro. Through my mom's side of the family I got Croatian/English and Native American genes. Then through my father's side I got Spanish/Korean/Welsh genes. Usually if I'm filling out forms that ask what race I am I just mark other. It's odd here in MS people just assume I'm white. But out in Texas and when I lived in Germany most could tell I'm a mixture of a bunch of stuff. |
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bob loves the Hurt Syndicate
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Post by bob loves the Hurt Syndicate on Sept 10, 2021 14:09:37 GMT -5
Powerhouse Hobbs is getting there-- they're booked him very strong
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Mecca
Wade Wilson
Posts: 25,243
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Post by Mecca on Sept 10, 2021 14:11:58 GMT -5
I honestly think a portion of it is because they haven't been able to sign any ready made black wrestlers. Guys coming from the indies are going to take more time to be ready for a number of reasons.
The WWE really hasn't released black talent during their firing spree and I do think that is part of it. Had guys like Big E and Ricochet been released with Swerve Scott having an unexpected expiring contract, we'd probably be viewing this differently.
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Post by BayleyTiffyCodyCenaJudyHopps on Sept 10, 2021 14:12:02 GMT -5
The racial undercurrents in how Vince heeled toward Kofi for the championship run was pretty clear I thought, but even as a PoC I wasn’t sure if the angle needed it. New Day is over with fans and they’re great representation even without that stuff.
I think Khan as of now is in a “get big names, build up Elite, get the word out” mentality. Still, there’s opportunities on the table to widen their demos and people like Cargill, Sky, Sonny Kiss, Velvet, Private Party and Hobbs are probably ready for fast tracks to main events because they’re damn good talent now.
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Post by Ronny Rayguns Is All Elite on Sept 10, 2021 14:16:22 GMT -5
The WWE really hasn't released black talent during their firing spree and I do think that is part of it. Had guys like Big E and Ricochet been released with Swerve Scott having an unexpected expiring contract, we'd probably be viewing this differently. Yeah Big E was one of the first people I thought of who could come in and quickly make an impact on the upper card, or if a guy like Kofi Kingston or Keith Lee or Moose were to become available, they could get slotted into upper echelon programs pretty quickly. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2021 14:17:42 GMT -5
Right. Everybody needs to be represented correctly in all races. I'm black so I'm speaking from my perspective mostly but with that said I do think that whether you're Hispanic, black, hell you can be purple whatever, you can be from Mars. At the end of the day you're someone who represents a group of people. It's bigger than black wrestlers and white wrestlers, I'm just speaking from my POV because I can't speak on anyone else's. AEW, even if there might be less stereotypes (to a degree) from a black perspective when I see Hit Row, New Day, Lashley, Bianca, Street Profits, Sasha, they're not stereotypes, they're legit people who I've seen all my life and that's a far greater thing that I love to see compared to the Cryme Tyme days. Once we see more black wrestlers in great positions with a multitude of characters in AEW I'll love it but that just isn't now. As for WWE and Asian wrestlers, they're still behind the times when it comes to how they're mostly portrayed. Even subtle things like Asuka speaking Japanese and other wrestlers looking "confused and disgusted" is incredibly nasty. It took years before they finally did black wrestlers correctly so needless to say it'll take years before others are done amazingly well too. Will Hobbs as been booked as a all business badass. For a guy who very few knew anything about a year ago, he been coming a long way. Ricky Starks very talented and has all the tools to be a top guy, again its getting the established first because unless you watched the NWA on youtube in 2019, most may not know who he was but the match with Cody he looked amazing and got him noticed. They done a good job with him I think with team Taz. That takes time to do. AEW is 3 years old. That not a lot of time to make guys. Hell Hobbs and Starks didn't start right away. They started last Summer. People forgetting the fact Starks been in the company a year and Hobbs came after him. Scorpio Sky was the first Tag champion and even now in a big role it seems like with the UFC guy. He got to face Sting in Sting first live crowd non cinematic match since his match in WWE. Thats a big spot to be put in. The thing is most of the black talent are from the indies who a lot of fans didn't know about. They where not ex WWE, TNA, or anything like that. They where right out of the indies. So they need a lot more time to build and I don't think AEW has done a bad job in doing that. I think they'd done a bad job, you can disagree but nah, I don't like it. This sounds like excuses to me.
AEW has been around for 3 years and from the jump they've been talking about diversity, people of color and it being a different wrestling company. I don't think we need to be waiting 3 years for people of color to finally be doing better things because if that's the case then what they said during that first year was just lip service for headlines. Cody had speeches about how much diversity means to him so for us taking this long, nah, that's not dope. Either they didn't look at the landscape well enough and plan this out or they weren't great enough in signing people of color to fulfill their plans. It's not a building issue.
I'm tired of hearing the "well they need more time" excuse when it comes to representation. How many years do we need when it takes 2 months to make somebody a hot main eventer if they wanted to? It's very very easy to make somebody hot in AEW. Even WWE had a cold bad on main roster Bianca the hottest woman on the main roster in 2 months.
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Post by Ronny Rayguns Is All Elite on Sept 10, 2021 14:20:23 GMT -5
I think Khan as of now is in a “get big names, build up Elite, get the word out” mentality. Still, there’s opportunities on the table to widen their demos and people like Cargill, Sky, Sonny Kiss, Velvet, Private Party and Hobbs are probably ready for fast tracks to main events because they’re damn good talent now. If you would have asked me right after they beat the Young Bucks early on, I would have bet good money that Private Party would have held the tag belts by now. They've been featured on TV pretty heavily and were given angles to work with but the HFO in general has been pretty mid tier, although now that a face team has the tag belts I could see PP being the ones to take the belts off them a few months from now. |
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Post by carp (SPC, Itoh Respect Army) on Sept 10, 2021 14:22:58 GMT -5
Not really. Who do you mean? Anyway, the main event scene has never mean nearly as clogged up as it is now. Darby Jungle Boy Luchasaurus OC Britt John Silver (Dark Order as a whole really) Eddie Kingston Kris Statlander Will Hobbs Jade Cargill Ricky Starks Dante Martin Sammy Guevara Wardlow MJF Are all imo more over, taken more seriously, and higher on the card than when they started with AEW. With the exception of Wardlow and Jungle Boy and maaaaaybe Hobbs, I don't consider any of those men as having significantly risen above where they started from; of course, some started pretty high up when they debuted. (Wardlow and Archer were the two I thought of when I tried.) They're much better for the women, I can't deny that. But anyway, I'm not sure anyone can really deny that AEW has a big problem with a clogged-up roster, and fifty-thousand (white) main eventers debuting in the last five minutes has only exacerbated it. |
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Post by gentlemengreg1 on Sept 10, 2021 14:27:36 GMT -5
I think we are about to see Ricky Starks get a rocket strapped onto his back.
But it will be as a face.
And I think the guy who turns Starks face is CM Punk turning heel on him.
Absolutely Ricky Starks is about to rise to the top of the AEW Face ledger along side Cowboy Adam Page.
Buckle up.
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chazraps
Wade Wilson
Better have my money when I come-a collect!
Posts: 28,331
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Post by chazraps on Sept 10, 2021 14:33:47 GMT -5
Will Hobbs as been booked as a all business badass. For a guy who very few knew anything about a year ago, he been coming a long way. Ricky Starks very talented and has all the tools to be a top guy, again its getting the established first because unless you watched the NWA on youtube in 2019, most may not know who he was but the match with Cody he looked amazing and got him noticed. They done a good job with him I think with team Taz. That takes time to do. AEW is 3 years old. That not a lot of time to make guys. Hell Hobbs and Starks didn't start right away. They started last Summer. People forgetting the fact Starks been in the company a year and Hobbs came after him. Scorpio Sky was the first Tag champion and even now in a big role it seems like with the UFC guy. He got to face Sting in Sting first live crowd non cinematic match since his match in WWE. Thats a big spot to be put in. The thing is most of the black talent are from the indies who a lot of fans didn't know about. They where not ex WWE, TNA, or anything like that. They where right out of the indies. So they need a lot more time to build and I don't think AEW has done a bad job in doing that. I think they'd done a bad job, you can disagree but nah, I don't like it. This sounds like excuses to me.
AEW has been around for 3 years and from the jump they've been talking about diversity, people of color and it being a different wrestling company. I don't think we need to be waiting 3 years for people of color to finally be doing better things because if that's the case then what they said during that first year was just lip service for headlines. Cody had speeches about how much diversity means to him so for us taking this long, nah, that's not dope. Either they didn't look at the landscape well enough and plan this out or they weren't great enough in signing people of color to fulfill their plans. It's not a building issue.
I'm tired of hearing the "well they need more time" excuse when it comes to representation. How many years do we need when it takes 2 months to make somebody a hot main eventer if they wanted to? It's very very easy to make somebody hot in AEW. Even WWE had a cold bad on main roster Bianca the hottest woman on the main roster in 2 months.
Especially when black wrestlers absolutely carried the indys during the worst parts of the pandemic thus far. |
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Mecca
Wade Wilson
Posts: 25,243
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Post by Mecca on Sept 10, 2021 14:39:17 GMT -5
Ricky Starks did an AMA the other day and someone asked him who he wanted in team Taz..his answer..Sasha Banks. Which bof course makes me wonder if that move will happen at some point.
I think Cedric Alexander will end up in AEW though, he's basically pined for it on social media.
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The Ichi
Patti Mayonnaise
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Posts: 37,722
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Post by The Ichi on Sept 10, 2021 14:47:20 GMT -5
You're not wrong, it's the big hurdle they need to tackle.
And I don't think you can do the "they can't just sign everyone!" argument when they're currently spending more money on talent than a rich kid in a candy store.
I'm not a big indy follower but there's gotta be people out there.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2021 14:52:19 GMT -5
I think they'd done a bad job, you can disagree but nah, I don't like it. This sounds like excuses to me.
AEW has been around for 3 years and from the jump they've been talking about diversity, people of color and it being a different wrestling company. I don't think we need to be waiting 3 years for people of color to finally be doing better things because if that's the case then what they said during that first year was just lip service for headlines. Cody had speeches about how much diversity means to him so for us taking this long, nah, that's not dope. Either they didn't look at the landscape well enough and plan this out or they weren't great enough in signing people of color to fulfill their plans. It's not a building issue.
I'm tired of hearing the "well they need more time" excuse when it comes to representation. How many years do we need when it takes 2 months to make somebody a hot main eventer if they wanted to? It's very very easy to make somebody hot in AEW. Even WWE had a cold bad on main roster Bianca the hottest woman on the main roster in 2 months.
Especially when black wrestlers absolutely carried the indys during the worst parts of the pandemic thus far. Yeah, the talent is there. |
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Mecca
Wade Wilson
Posts: 25,243
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Post by Mecca on Sept 10, 2021 14:56:35 GMT -5
You're not wrong, it's the big hurdle they need to tackle. And I don't think you can do the "they can't just sign everyone!" argument when they're currently spending more money on talent than a rich kid in a candy store. I'm not a big indy follower but there's gotta be people out there. Jon Gresham is good, no idea how long he's signed to ROH though. |
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Dub H
Crow T. Robot
Captain Pixel: the Game Master
I ❤ Aniki
Posts: 48,557
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Post by Dub H on Sept 10, 2021 15:01:21 GMT -5
I think we are about to see Ricky Starks get a rocket strapped onto his back. But it will be as a face. And I think the guy who turns Starks face is CM Punk turning heel on him. Absolutely Ricky Starks is about to rise to the top of the AEW Face ledger along side Cowboy Adam Page. Buckle up. I know ir is an old comparison but i only see ricky turning face wif he becomes a heel too cool to boo like The Rock. |
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Fade
Patti Mayonnaise
Posts: 38,665
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Post by Fade on Sept 10, 2021 15:03:33 GMT -5
I have no clue when Chris Bey's contract ends with Impact, but when it does he should have both the E and AEW banging down his door.... On an interesting segue it will be interesting to see Bey’s trajectory. Stay in iMPACT, do a full NJPW thing, WWE, AEW..one of the guys with the most potential in the wrestling landscape right now. |
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Dub H
Crow T. Robot
Captain Pixel: the Game Master
I ❤ Aniki
Posts: 48,557
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Post by Dub H on Sept 10, 2021 15:03:44 GMT -5
The racial undercurrents in how Vince heeled toward Kofi for the championship run was pretty clear I thought, but even as a PoC I wasn’t sure if the angle needed it. New Day is over with fans and they’re great representation even without that stuff. I think Khan as of now is in a “get big names, build up Elite, get the word out” mentality. Still, there’s opportunities on the table to widen their demos and people like Cargill, Sky, Sonny Kiss, Velvet, Private Party and Hobbs are probably ready for fast tracks to main events because they’re damn good talent now. The female roster is stacked with diversity ,that isnt an issue. Also Sonny haa improved incredibly but he really needs to still work on his microphone delivery |
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Post by Ronny Rayguns Is All Elite on Sept 10, 2021 15:08:41 GMT -5
The female roster is stacked with diversity ,that isnt an issue. Also Sonny haa improved incredibly but he really needs to still work on his microphone delivery It seems like forever since I've seen Sonny Kiss, although mainly since I don't watch the Youtube shows. The last I heard of him was seeing a clip of Max Caster doing a rap against Sonny before a match, I almost forgot he was on the Roster |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2021 15:42:18 GMT -5
Right. Everybody needs to be represented correctly in all races. I'm black so I'm speaking from my perspective mostly but with that said I do think that whether you're Hispanic, black, hell you can be purple whatever, you can be from Mars. At the end of the day you're someone who represents a group of people. It's bigger than black wrestlers and white wrestlers, I'm just speaking from my POV because I can't speak on anyone else's. AEW, even if there might be less stereotypes (to a degree) from a black perspective when I see Hit Row, New Day, Lashley, Bianca, Street Profits, Sasha, they're not stereotypes, they're legit people who I've seen all my life and that's a far greater thing that I love to see compared to the Cryme Tyme days. Once we see more black wrestlers in great positions with a multitude of characters in AEW I'll love it but that just isn't now. As for WWE and Asian wrestlers, they're still behind the times when it comes to how they're mostly portrayed. Even subtle things like Asuka speaking Japanese and other wrestlers looking "confused and disgusted" is incredibly nasty. It took years before they finally did black wrestlers correctly so needless to say it'll take years before others are done amazingly well too. Which is why with my perspective I feel the opposite, while you may be happy and its good progress, Im still not happy with how WWE has treated Asian and to an extent Latino wrestlers as such. It is also why I am more pleased with AEW presenting them better. AEW isn't going back to tired tropes with the Japanese wrestlers brought in and they fit in nicely when they do come in. And I like how not speaking english isn't as much of a be detriment on their roster by using managers. Nowhere in my post did I say I'm happy and I'm glad with WWE's progress of Asian/Latino/any other minority that isn't black. I actually said that I'm happy with how they're presenting black wrestlers but with the other minorities they need to improve on (hence the Asuka reference). WWE isn't perfect but I do like what they're doing with black wrestlers and I want to see AEW do the same for black wrestlers. That doesn't mean I don't think WWE needs to improve on how they do other minorities, that's a fault of theirs and AEW as well as they need more minority representation too.
AEW just ain't doing it for me when it comes to my own race so I'm just gonna call it out as everyone should call out when they see a company not doing well to their own race. They gotta do better.
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