anglarite
Don Corleone
...enchantment!
Posts: 1,546
|
Post by anglarite on Sept 10, 2021 15:53:25 GMT -5
Darby John Silver (Dark Order as a whole really) Eddie Kingston Kris Statlander Will Hobbs Jade CargillRicky Starks Dante Martin Sammy Guevara Wardlow MJF Are all imo more over, taken more seriously, and higher on the card than when they started with AEW. This thread seems to be mainly focused on the male half of the roster, but I really do think they've done a LOT to build up Jade Cargill, use her correctly and hide her weaknesses as a relatively inexperienced wrestler She made her debut in a segment where she pretty much bitched out Cody Rhodes. Had a feud with Cody leading to her debut match teaming up with Shaq that ended up being WAY better than it had any right to be and ended up getting mainstream attention because of Shaq's involvement. To a lesser extent, Red Velvet who was also in this match has had some high profile matches this year Since then she's gotten promo time pretty consistently, and mostly been used in squash matches/battle royals where she can look impressive. If we are talking about the women's division... I think Riho, Shida, Nyla Rose and Thunder Rosa are all main event talents. |
|
|
|
Post by The Captain on Sept 10, 2021 16:06:19 GMT -5
AEW's generally done really good with having a diverse women's roster. That's never been an issue with them. Their issue was getting featured prominently at all and it's getting better there. I know how important representation can be. Like I got pissed seeing my own minority representation erased from Batwoman (and during a time when my people are experiencing hate crimes at an alarming rate). They definitely can do better with building up their Black talent. Like, they should look at the great reactions Daunte Martin's gotten as a singles wrestler and give him and, when Darius gets back from injury, Top Flight some love. There's your organic push in the making. Same with Lee Moriarty.
I don't think that big name Black free agent with instant star power like Lashley, Kofi, Austin Creed, or Big E is going to be out there anytime soon, so you gotta build up what you have.
|
|
|
|
Post by markymark on Sept 10, 2021 16:35:58 GMT -5
Brian Pullman Jr was enhancement talent when he started, has steadily been featured and built up, and just got positioned as a rival to top guy MJF this week. What similar young PoC talent has gotten any sort of opportunity on that level? Hell, some of the rare promising young PoC talent they've got has been moved in the opposite dire Brian Pillman Jr has heavily benefited from being Brian Pillman's son and the recent DSOTR episode which bought him a LOT of attention and good will from the fans for how he came across in spite of everything that happened. This feud with MJF is built around details from that show. If it wasn't for that I doubt he'd be where he is right now. Once he was actually signed, Hobbs got a nice rub pretty quickly from being aligned with Mox and Allin against Team Taz before turning heel. I vaguely remember there was a main event 6 man match shaping up before having to be canceled due to Darby(?) getting injured. I don't know if the plan from the beginning was to have Hobbs join Team Taz or if they had to call an audible, although I think he has a higher ceiling as a heel anyway. It was cancelled because Archer got the covid, and ruined the plans of Hobbs being pushed as a future face, but turning him heel worked better than expected imo. |
|
Mochi Lone Wolf
Fry's dog Seymour
Development through Destruction.
Posts: 24,250 
|
Post by Mochi Lone Wolf on Sept 10, 2021 16:36:19 GMT -5
I have no clue when Chris Bey's contract ends with Impact, but when it does he should have both the E and AEW banging down his door.... That was my first thought. Since joining Bullet Club and being more prominently featured on Impact and in the indies, he’s been revelation. Both as a wrestler but, especially, as a personality. Plus he has possible crossover appeal as a rapper. I don’t see why AEW can’t call him up and let him show off since they and Impact are supposed having a working relationship. |
|
cjb01: Limited Edition Item!
FANatic
Writer, Lover of all things Wrestling. Analytical, Critical, Lovable (hopefully). Lets all have fun!
Posts: 248,331
|
Post by cjb01: Limited Edition Item! on Sept 10, 2021 16:53:11 GMT -5
I think when the Elite's time are done at least in the main event scene... it's gonna be opportunity for a lot of people to move up the card and start getting their shine more.
AEW has a lot of young black talent. They just signed one of the best prospects of color in the entire world right now in Lee Moriarty too. Dante Martin has been a human highlight reel at 20. Will Hobbs looks to be getting a match with CM Punk in the future. Lee Johnson looks like a long term project as is Sonny Kiss. Shawn Dean does a lot of behind the scenes stuff and could really be a feel good story if they push him up. Private Party are very young and still learning... but them beating The Bucks early on was no coincidence when they do want to push them for the belts. Scorpio Sky won the tag belts but hasn't really found a presence to warrant getting a top card push. He's a solid hand he just isn't THERE right now outside of his Men of the Year act.
I do truly believe if Chris Bey or any of the New Day left... AEW'd be all over them. Moose could have gone to AEW too if he hadn't re-signed. I think they've started to improve in the overall sense if we're talking PoC. Lucha Bros as tag champs. Kingston might beat Miro for the TNT Title (And even if he don't he is absolutely one of the most over guys they have) and PNP and Sammy Guevara just seem positioned for big things.
So the short of it is... I do get the frustration because a lot of the upper main event scene is white. And as OP even said it's not really THEIR fault they're some of the best wrestlers in the world and AEW is gonna sign the big stars for their promotion. I just hope that within these next few months to even years we start to see these talents they're hiring paying off to add more diversity to the men. The pieces are there and continue to develop as I'm seeing them. Here's hoping!
|
|
|
|
Post by carp (SPC, Itoh Respect Army) on Sept 10, 2021 16:59:34 GMT -5
Especially when black wrestlers absolutely carried the indys during the worst parts of the pandemic thus far. There is a lonnnng list of black indie wrestlers who are absolutely on fire, though some seem to be doing fine in other companies (like Tankman and Trish goddamn Adora and JTG and AJ Gray). I'm a big fan of the Kings of the District, Tre Lamarr, Darius Carter, Willow Nightingale, AC Mack, and Ken Broadway, but that's scratching the surface. And not to hijack this thread, but you know who else carried indie wrestling on their backs during the pandemic? LGBTQ wrestlers. Not even to f***ing mention LGBTQ wrestlers of color. Here's another place the WWE, completely despite itself, blows away AEW in terms of representation. |
|
cjb01: Limited Edition Item!
FANatic
Writer, Lover of all things Wrestling. Analytical, Critical, Lovable (hopefully). Lets all have fun!
Posts: 248,331
|
Post by cjb01: Limited Edition Item! on Sept 10, 2021 17:03:10 GMT -5
Especially when black wrestlers absolutely carried the indys during the worst parts of the pandemic thus far. There is a lonnnng list of black indie wrestlers who are absolutely on fire, though some seem to be doing fine in other companies (like Tankman and Trish goddamn Adora and JTG and AJ Gray). I'm a big fan of the Kings of the District, Tre Lamarr, Darius Carter, Willow Nightingale, AC Mack, and Ken Broadway, but that's scratching the surface. And not to hijack this thread, but you know who else carried indie wrestling on their backs during the pandemic? LGBTQ wrestlers. Not even to f***ing mention LGBTQ wrestlers of color. Here's another place the WWE, completely despite itself, blows away AEW in terms of representation. I have to hard argue WWE blowing AEW away in terms of LGBTQ representation. One they fired Martinez and Atlas recently... and AEW just seemed to sign on Kiera Hogan to work with Diamante. Not to mention Sonny Kiss and Nyla Rose. AEW seems pretty deep into the LGBTQ community and celebrating them. Cody hard defending his match with Sonny Kiss online also came to mind among other things. |
|
|
|
Post by carp (SPC, Itoh Respect Army) on Sept 10, 2021 17:13:12 GMT -5
There is a lonnnng list of black indie wrestlers who are absolutely on fire, though some seem to be doing fine in other companies (like Tankman and Trish goddamn Adora and JTG and AJ Gray). I'm a big fan of the Kings of the District, Tre Lamarr, Darius Carter, Willow Nightingale, AC Mack, and Ken Broadway, but that's scratching the surface. And not to hijack this thread, but you know who else carried indie wrestling on their backs during the pandemic? LGBTQ wrestlers. Not even to f***ing mention LGBTQ wrestlers of color. Here's another place the WWE, completely despite itself, blows away AEW in terms of representation. I have to hard argue WWE blowing AEW away in terms of LGBTQ representation. One they fired Martinez and Atlas recently... and AEW just seemed to sign on Kiera Hogan to work with Diamante. Not to mention Sonny Kiss and Nyla Rose. I actually did forget about Hogan and Diamante, so you're right, they do better than I was saying. And let it be said: AEW certainly does a much better job with their presentation... not only Kiss and Rose, but also VENY, during the Japan tournament. But "maybe a hair better than the WWE" is a pretty low bar. EDIT: I think a difference is, AEW is very very good at presenting someone LGBTQ as normal and valid as they are... their queerness isn't unimportant or important, it just is. This is awesome, and a great baseline to work with. But the WWE is good at (for obviously cynical reasons) sometimes celebrating the queerness of their queer wrestlers (much as they have, either grudgingly or cynically, celebrated the blackness of their black wrestlers). That's the side of things I'd like to see from AEW, because they'd be much more genuine about it. |
|
cjb01: Limited Edition Item!
FANatic
Writer, Lover of all things Wrestling. Analytical, Critical, Lovable (hopefully). Lets all have fun!
Posts: 248,331
|
Post by cjb01: Limited Edition Item! on Sept 10, 2021 17:20:55 GMT -5
I have to hard argue WWE blowing AEW away in terms of LGBTQ representation. One they fired Martinez and Atlas recently... and AEW just seemed to sign on Kiera Hogan to work with Diamante. Not to mention Sonny Kiss and Nyla Rose. I actually did forget about Hogan and Diamante, so you're right, they do better than I was saying. And let it be said: AEW certainly does a much better job with their presentation... not only Kiss and Rose, but also VENY, during the Japan tournament. But "maybe a hair better than the WWE" is a pretty low bar. Was just saying I think they're doing pretty well there. Plus Nyla won the women's title as well. Pretty big plus. I forgot about VENY too and that was a nice touch by them. Anywho. stuff like that does show me AEW has the spirit and good intentions. Sometimes people just need to see more and Im sure they know that. |
|
|
|
Post by markymark on Sept 10, 2021 17:25:14 GMT -5
I have to hard argue WWE blowing AEW away in terms of LGBTQ representation. One they fired Martinez and Atlas recently... and AEW just seemed to sign on Kiera Hogan to work with Diamante. Not to mention Sonny Kiss and Nyla Rose. I actually did forget about Hogan and Diamante, so you're right, they do better than I was saying. And let it be said: AEW certainly does a much better job with their presentation... not only Kiss and Rose, but also VENY, during the Japan tournament. But "maybe a hair better than the WWE" is a pretty low bar. EDIT: I think a difference is, AEW is very very good at presenting someone LGBTQ as normal and valid as they are... their queerness isn't unimportant or important, it just is. This is awesome, and a great baseline to work with. But the WWE is good at (for obviously cynical reasons) sometimes celebrating the queerness of their queer wrestlers (much as they have, either grudgingly or cynically, celebrated the blackness of their black wrestlers). That's the side of things I'd like to see from AEW, because they'd be much more genuine about it. Correct me if im wrong but isnt Caster bi? And also he is main eventing tonights Rampage. |
|
|
|
Post by markymark on Sept 10, 2021 17:27:29 GMT -5
I think when the Elite's time are done at least in the main event scene... it's gonna be opportunity for a lot of people to move up the card and start getting their shine more. AEW has a lot of young black talent. They just signed one of the best prospects of color in the entire world right now in Lee Moriarty too. Dante Martin has been a human highlight reel at 20. Will Hobbs looks to be getting a match with CM Punk in the future. Lee Johnson looks like a long term project as is Sonny Kiss. Shawn Dean does a lot of behind the scenes stuff and could really be a feel good story if they push him up. Private Party are very young and still learning... but them beating The Bucks early on was no coincidence when they do want to push them for the belts. Scorpio Sky won the tag belts but hasn't really found a presence to warrant getting a top card push. He's a solid hand he just isn't THERE right now outside of his Men of the Year act. I do truly believe if Chris Bey or any of the New Day left... AEW'd be all over them. Moose could have gone to AEW too if he hadn't re-signed. I think they've started to improve in the overall sense if we're talking PoC. Lucha Bros as tag champs. Kingston might beat Miro for the TNT Title (And even if he don't he is absolutely one of the most over guys they have) and PNP and Sammy Guevara just seem positioned for big things. So the short of it is... I do get the frustration because a lot of the upper main event scene is white. And as OP even said it's not really THEIR fault they're some of the best wrestlers in the world and AEW is gonna sign the big stars for their promotion. I just hope that within these next few months to even years we start to see these talents they're hiring paying off to add more diversity to the men. The pieces are there and continue to develop as I'm seeing them. Here's hoping! Acclaimed is going to be one of the top teams as long as Caster stays out of trouble(Caster is still over with the crowd) and Bowens is fairly good in the ring(his match vs Garrison). |
|
|
|
Post by The Captain on Sept 10, 2021 17:29:10 GMT -5
Who does WWE have on their active roster in the queer community besides Sonya Deville and Tegan Nox?
|
|
cjb01: Limited Edition Item!
FANatic
Writer, Lover of all things Wrestling. Analytical, Critical, Lovable (hopefully). Lets all have fun!
Posts: 248,331
|
Post by cjb01: Limited Edition Item! on Sept 10, 2021 17:29:42 GMT -5
I think when the Elite's time are done at least in the main event scene... it's gonna be opportunity for a lot of people to move up the card and start getting their shine more. AEW has a lot of young black talent. They just signed one of the best prospects of color in the entire world right now in Lee Moriarty too. Dante Martin has been a human highlight reel at 20. Will Hobbs looks to be getting a match with CM Punk in the future. Lee Johnson looks like a long term project as is Sonny Kiss. Shawn Dean does a lot of behind the scenes stuff and could really be a feel good story if they push him up. Private Party are very young and still learning... but them beating The Bucks early on was no coincidence when they do want to push them for the belts. Scorpio Sky won the tag belts but hasn't really found a presence to warrant getting a top card push. He's a solid hand he just isn't THERE right now outside of his Men of the Year act. I do truly believe if Chris Bey or any of the New Day left... AEW'd be all over them. Moose could have gone to AEW too if he hadn't re-signed. I think they've started to improve in the overall sense if we're talking PoC. Lucha Bros as tag champs. Kingston might beat Miro for the TNT Title (And even if he don't he is absolutely one of the most over guys they have) and PNP and Sammy Guevara just seem positioned for big things. So the short of it is... I do get the frustration because a lot of the upper main event scene is white. And as OP even said it's not really THEIR fault they're some of the best wrestlers in the world and AEW is gonna sign the big stars for their promotion. I just hope that within these next few months to even years we start to see these talents they're hiring paying off to add more diversity to the men. The pieces are there and continue to develop as I'm seeing them. Here's hoping! Acclaimed is going to be one of the top teams as long as Caster stays out of trouble(Caster is still over with the crowd) and Bowens is fairly good in the ring(his match vs Garrison). Yeah I actually skipped The Acclaimed somehow... they're future tag champs if everything stays well with them. |
|
cjb01: Limited Edition Item!
FANatic
Writer, Lover of all things Wrestling. Analytical, Critical, Lovable (hopefully). Lets all have fun!
Posts: 248,331
|
Post by cjb01: Limited Edition Item! on Sept 10, 2021 17:30:13 GMT -5
Who does WWE have on their active roster in the queer community besides Sonya Deville and Tegan Nox? As I said they had Martinez and Jake Atlas. Used them in PRIDE advertising even... then they fired them... |
|
|
|
Post by The Captain on Sept 10, 2021 17:30:39 GMT -5
I actually did forget about Hogan and Diamante, so you're right, they do better than I was saying. And let it be said: AEW certainly does a much better job with their presentation... not only Kiss and Rose, but also VENY, during the Japan tournament. But "maybe a hair better than the WWE" is a pretty low bar. EDIT: I think a difference is, AEW is very very good at presenting someone LGBTQ as normal and valid as they are... their queerness isn't unimportant or important, it just is. This is awesome, and a great baseline to work with. But the WWE is good at (for obviously cynical reasons) sometimes celebrating the queerness of their queer wrestlers (much as they have, either grudgingly or cynically, celebrated the blackness of their black wrestlers). That's the side of things I'd like to see from AEW, because they'd be much more genuine about it. Correct me if im wrong but isnt Caster bi? And also he is main eventing tonights Rampage. Bowens is gay, but Caster hasn't said anything one way or another about his sexuality AFAIK. That said, considering how horny he is for, well, everyone, I wouldn't be surprised if the dude was bi or pan. |
|
|
|
Post by carp (SPC, Itoh Respect Army) on Sept 10, 2021 17:46:06 GMT -5
Correct me if im wrong but isnt Caster bi? And also he is main eventing tonights Rampage. Bowens is gay, but Caster hasn't said anything one way or another about his sexuality AFAIK. That said, considering how horny he is for, well, everyone, I wouldn't be surprised if the dude was bi or pan. I actually had no idea that Bowens was gay. (I also realized there are members of the roster who may not publicly be out about being some kind of queer, and I think we all agree that it's great to respect that.) Well, here's a case I'm happy to be wrong. But I do think they could do a better job celebrating and advertising this aspect of their diversity, because unlike the WWE they'd actually care. And again, I didn't mean to derail from the important main point of this thread, but since it led to people listing, what, seven LGBTQ people of color on their roster, I can't feel too bad about it. |
|
kidkamikaze10
Dennis Stamp
Trying to think of a new avatar
Posts: 4,350
|
Post by kidkamikaze10 on Sept 10, 2021 17:57:49 GMT -5
WWE also has Toni Storm, who came out recently.
|
|
|
|
Post by The Legendary Ring Troll {BLM} on Sept 10, 2021 18:11:23 GMT -5
Okay, I’m just gonna skip the thread and put up my options for PoC who should be in the Main Event:
Will Hobbs
Ricky Starks
Penta
Fenix
Andrade
…Eddie Kingston? (I thought he was white, but he was in LAX so I dunno…)
As for the Mid Card:
Sammy Guevara
Scorpio
Anthony Ogogo
Shawn Dean
The Acclaimed
Top Flight
Private Party
Proud n Powerful
(Tag teams I mean each in singles, they’re all main event in the tag division as far as I can tell)
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2021 18:15:48 GMT -5
Who does WWE have on their active roster in the queer community besides Sonya Deville and Tegan Nox? Toni Storm, Shotzi Blackheart, and I'm sure many others. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2021 19:25:59 GMT -5
I think when the Elite's time are done at least in the main event scene... it's gonna be opportunity for a lot of people to move up the card and start getting their shine more.
AEW has a lot of young black talent. They just signed one of the best prospects of color in the entire world right now in Lee Moriarty too. Dante Martin has been a human highlight reel at 20. Will Hobbs looks to be getting a match with CM Punk in the future. Lee Johnson looks like a long term project as is Sonny Kiss. Shawn Dean does a lot of behind the scenes stuff and could really be a feel good story if they push him up. Private Party are very young and still learning... but them beating The Bucks early on was no coincidence when they do want to push them for the belts. Scorpio Sky won the tag belts but hasn't really found a presence to warrant getting a top card push. He's a solid hand he just isn't THERE right now outside of his Men of the Year act. I do truly believe if Chris Bey or any of the New Day left... AEW'd be all over them. Moose could have gone to AEW too if he hadn't re-signed. I think they've started to improve in the overall sense if we're talking PoC. Lucha Bros as tag champs. Kingston might beat Miro for the TNT Title (And even if he don't he is absolutely one of the most over guys they have) and PNP and Sammy Guevara just seem positioned for big things.
So the short of it is... I do get the frustration because a lot of the upper main event scene is white. And as OP even said it's not really THEIR fault they're some of the best wrestlers in the world and AEW is gonna sign the big stars for their promotion. I just hope that within these next few months to even years we start to see these talents they're hiring paying off to add more diversity to the men. The pieces are there and continue to develop as I'm seeing them. Here's hoping! Man, you're missing the point.
The main issue we have is that AEW will have been around for 3 years in what, 3-4 months and we're still having an issue. It's not about who they have under them or who they can sign because everybody can sign talent. I and other brought this up during their first year when Cody and Brandi were having those diversity talks and people were telling us that things will happen in time, just to "wait and see", mind you this is after Kofi's big WM win so people saw how important diversity was when that happened and yet here we are years later still going through the same old stuff. We're still getting threads about them having a diversity issue.
It shouldn't take years in order for a diversity issue to be handled especially when AEW was touting all that stuff they were saying before their doors even opened. We just gotta call it an L and say they should have done better rather than acting like they were building this and they did everything correctly. The reality is that they talked about diversity a lot in the beginning and now years later they've got this issue that more people are highlighting because they didn't really take it as seriously as they did with other stuff and now they're going to have to start building people of color because they didn't do it before unlike other companies. It is what it is.
There's nothing wrong with saying AEW could have done better. They can do better and if enough people push, they will do better. We wouldn't be saying this if Cody didn't give his "I said I didn't see any color until I realized I was wrong" speech he cut after a ppv that one time.
Basically, we shouldn't have to wait years for this. Saying that you hope that years from now the talent they're signing pays off takes away from what they could have been doing these past few years. They didn't work on it well enough.
|
|
