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Post by BayleyTiffyCodyCenaJudyHopps on May 29, 2023 16:35:05 GMT -5
I think we can all move on now. This is all just loud noises to me anyway.
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Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on May 30, 2023 11:50:22 GMT -5
Given the blackface conversation seems to have gone really well to get back to the general topic of pushing POC
How many men of colour have even challenged for the men's world title?
Scorpio is one. Sammy has. MJF counts too.
Any others?
Anyone else that is remotely a main eventer on any consistent basis?
Because for me the telling thing here is not that we haven't had a black champion yet. It's that we haven't even had a black main eventer yet.
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SneakMan
Samurai Cop
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Post by SneakMan on May 30, 2023 11:52:11 GMT -5
Given the blackface conversation seems to have gone really well to get back to the general topic of pushing POC How many men of colour have even challenged for the men's world title? Scorpio is one. Sammy has. MJF counts too. Any others? Anyone else that is remotely a main eventer on any consistent basis? Because for me the telling thing here is not that we haven't had a black champion yet. It's that we haven't even had a black main eventer yet. Starks challenged for the belt earlier this year, and I’ll be shocked if he’s not a main event player sooner or later.
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markymark
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Posts: 19,621
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Post by markymark on May 30, 2023 11:54:11 GMT -5
Given the blackface conversation seems to have gone really well to get back to the general topic of pushing POC How many men of colour have even challenged for the men's world title? Scorpio is one. Sammy has. MJF counts too. Any others? Anyone else that is remotely a main eventer on any consistent basis? Because for me the telling thing here is not that we haven't had a black champion yet. It's that we haven't even had a black main eventer yet.
Scorpio was featured as one of the top guys for Collision so he might get some sort of push when he returns to tv.
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on May 30, 2023 12:58:44 GMT -5
Given the blackface conversation seems to have gone really well to get back to the general topic of pushing POC How many men of colour have even challenged for the men's world title? Scorpio is one. Sammy has. MJF counts too. Any others? Anyone else that is remotely a main eventer on any consistent basis? Because for me the telling thing here is not that we haven't had a black champion yet. It's that we haven't even had a black main eventer yet. No one has broken thru the glass ceiling. You have had some challengers but that’s all they have been without really consistent booking Starks seemed to be on his way up with the MJF match and Jericho feud but has sort of hit a wall. Swerve/Lee is played out because they had to hit the reset button.
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champchumpchange
Don Corleone
Everyone needs to drive a vehicle, even the very tall.
Posts: 1,682
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Post by champchumpchange on May 31, 2023 9:25:07 GMT -5
Given the blackface conversation seems to have gone really well to get back to the general topic of pushing POC How many men of colour have even challenged for the men's world title? Scorpio is one. Sammy has. MJF counts too. Any others? Anyone else that is remotely a main eventer on any consistent basis? Because for me the telling thing here is not that we haven't had a black champion yet. It's that we haven't even had a black main eventer yet. MJF is a PoC ?
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Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on May 31, 2023 9:33:28 GMT -5
Given the blackface conversation seems to have gone really well to get back to the general topic of pushing POC How many men of colour have even challenged for the men's world title? Scorpio is one. Sammy has. MJF counts too. Any others? Anyone else that is remotely a main eventer on any consistent basis? Because for me the telling thing here is not that we haven't had a black champion yet. It's that we haven't even had a black main eventer yet. MJF is a PoC ? Depending on whether you count Jewish people. And I am certainly not going to try and decide that with my 1/16th Jewish ass
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champchumpchange
Don Corleone
Everyone needs to drive a vehicle, even the very tall.
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Post by champchumpchange on May 31, 2023 9:45:22 GMT -5
Depending on whether you count Jewish people. And I am certainly not going to try and decide that with my 1/16th Jewish ass I mean, of course they are people. I guess I got stuck on thinking about it as a religion.
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Post by Tiger Millionaire on May 31, 2023 11:03:06 GMT -5
Depending on whether you count Jewish people. And I am certainly not going to try and decide that with my 1/16th Jewish ass I mean, of course they are people. I guess I got stuck on thinking about it as a religion. It' both a religion and an ethnicity.
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Post by YAKMAN is ICHIBAN on May 31, 2023 12:27:25 GMT -5
I hope I'm not the only one whose first thought was it was a joke about MJF being orange before realizing it was a reference to him being Jewish.
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Post by darbus alan on May 31, 2023 13:10:33 GMT -5
Coming from my own Jewish perspective: MJF comes from a marginalized community, but being Jewish is more ethnicity and religion than race in the current American definition of race.
There are ethnic Jews of color (for a few known examples: Daveed Diggs, Drake, Amar'e Stoudemire, Keith Silverstein), but no, I wouldn't consider MJF a PoC. At least not by 2023 American standards. It's still important because MJF is from an ethnoreligious minority. But yeah.
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Post by uewfigfed on May 31, 2023 13:34:06 GMT -5
The upcoming game release exposes the shit out of this fact smh
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FinalGwen
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Post by FinalGwen on May 31, 2023 13:56:32 GMT -5
Think regardless of whether he 'counts' or not, it's fair to say that it's objectively a good thing that MJF has been able to be open and proud about his Jewish background and work it into his character, it's a kind of representation not often seen in wrestling beyond broad stereotype, but it still doesn't mean AEW don't have work to do on other fronts particularly with their black roster. Same if Takeshita won the world title tomorrow, it's more than ticking off one box like 'yep, we've done the diversity now'.
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kidkamikaze10
Dennis Stamp
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Post by kidkamikaze10 on May 31, 2023 14:03:39 GMT -5
I think this Ricky interview exposes something that I've been on about: certain folks sucking up a ton of oxygen in the main event/upper-midcard scene. MJF floated the pillars idea and got all four guys permanently in that scene. Nobody has done that for any of the black talent, and that annoys me.
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markymark
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Posts: 19,621
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Post by markymark on May 31, 2023 14:08:31 GMT -5
I think this Ricky interview exposes something that I've been on about: certain folks sucking up a ton of oxygen in the main event/upper-midcard scene. MJF floated the pillars idea and got all four guys permanently in that scene. Nobody has done that for any of the black talent, and that annoys me.
They tried it with Scorpio several times, and again they will try it once Collision finally airs.
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Zone Was Wrong
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Post by Zone Was Wrong on May 31, 2023 14:11:33 GMT -5
Think regardless of whether he 'counts' or not, it's fair to say that it's objectively a good thing that MJF has been able to be open and proud about his Jewish background and work it into his character, it's a kind of representation not often seen in wrestling beyond broad stereotype, but it still doesn't mean AEW don't have work to do on other fronts particularly with their black roster. Same if Takeshita won the world title tomorrow, it's more than ticking off one box like 'yep, we've done the diversity now'. Yeah, 100% agreed. Still kills me that the last two matches had a dozen wrestlers and you wouldn't even need every finger on one hand to count how many non-white dudes there were. Just blows my mind. Like, I enjoy all those dudes but just feels like there's a clear divide in the roster which sucks ass, at least in the main event scene. And at this point you can't even say, "oh but there isn't anyone at their level yet" when you have Starks, Hobbs, Swerve, etc. There are options but it seems like their ascension is going at a snail's pace.
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kidkamikaze10
Dennis Stamp
Trying to think of a new avatar
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Post by kidkamikaze10 on May 31, 2023 14:29:59 GMT -5
I think this Ricky interview exposes something that I've been on about: certain folks sucking up a ton of oxygen in the main event/upper-midcard scene. MJF floated the pillars idea and got all four guys permanently in that scene. Nobody has done that for any of the black talent, and that annoys me. They tried it with Scorpio several times, and again they will try it once Collision finally airs.
Ooof. Yeah, you're right. God I keep forgetting about Scorpio. Of all people, why was HE the one they thought would be the main eventer? (I know why, I just didn't think friend nepotism was that heavy in AEW)
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Dub H
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Post by Dub H on May 31, 2023 14:47:24 GMT -5
I think this Ricky interview exposes something that I've been on about: certain folks sucking up a ton of oxygen in the main event/upper-midcard scene. MJF floated the pillars idea and got all four guys permanently in that scene. Nobody has done that for any of the black talent, and that annoys me. Adapt it into a Promo, good stuff. Also yeh, Scorpio was one of THE worst choices
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Post by Rudy Gobert Fingers on May 31, 2023 15:04:10 GMT -5
Ricky Starks making every host go dead silent is amazing lmao
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ghost
Don Corleone
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Post by ghost on May 31, 2023 15:29:05 GMT -5
I don't understand how any promoter could look at Starks and actually value JB and Sammy more. Darby at least has that prime Jeff Hardy vibe to him so I can understand his appeal, but Starks (and Swerve) just ooze star power compared to a lot of the guys Khan seems to prefer more, including minority talent like Sky and Lethal (so it's not just white dudes). One Starks promo can illustrate how much more of a star he is than Sammy, for example, and Sammy has to jump off a building onto a ladder to get big reactions nowadays.
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