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Post by Hurbster on Sept 20, 2021 19:38:47 GMT -5
While I hate defending Undertaker, I think Taker is a moron with ass backwards beliefs, I'm not sure he's a white supremacist given his actions and the company he's kept over the years. His makebelieve backstage biker gang consisted of guys like Fuji, Yoko, Godfather, Savio, Rikishi and one of his lead stooges in the Wrestler's court era was Booker T, probably the only main event level guy from WCW who came over during the Invasion he didn't seem to go out of his way to destroy. There are a lot of horror stories about taker being a d*ck, but racism has never been brought up as a part of them as far as I'm aware, even Ahmed Johnson, who doesn't pull his punches when it comes to the racism he faced and isn't afraid to burn any and all bridges has no complaints about Taker. He's just an authoritarian, a terrible person and in to pretending to be a badass biker and embraces the symbols they use without thinking about anything more than how tough it makes him feel. 'I'm tough and a rebel so respect my authority and my feelings, but also *bleep* your feelings!' Unfortunately bikers and heavy metal enthusiasts alike both embraced that unpleasant symbolism, hell, Triple H incorporated the Iron Cross into his gimmick because he was in to Motorhead. The Iron Cross was established in 1813 and it's unfortunate what Hitler did to it. And what hate groups adopted it. I do not believe either Lemmy (who was really into German military memorabilia) and HHH had any political motivations for wearing it.
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Mecca
Wade Wilson
Posts: 25,049
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Post by Mecca on Sept 20, 2021 19:44:46 GMT -5
He's a 55 year old biker from Texas sometimes Occam's razor applies.
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Post by THE FVNKER on Sept 20, 2021 20:00:01 GMT -5
While I hate defending Undertaker, I think Taker is a moron with ass backwards beliefs, I'm not sure he's a white supremacist given his actions and the company he's kept over the years. His makebelieve backstage biker gang consisted of guys like Fuji, Yoko, Godfather, Savio, Rikishi and one of his lead stooges in the Wrestler's court era was Booker T, probably the only main event level guy from WCW who came over during the Invasion he didn't seem to go out of his way to destroy. There are a lot of horror stories about taker being a d*ck, but racism has never been brought up as a part of them as far as I'm aware, even Ahmed Johnson, who doesn't pull his punches when it comes to the racism he faced and isn't afraid to burn any and all bridges has no complaints about Taker. He's just an authoritarian, a terrible person and in to pretending to be a badass biker and embraces the symbols they use without thinking about anything more than how tough it makes him feel. 'I'm tough and a rebel so respect my authority and my feelings, but also *bleep* your feelings!' Unfortunately bikers and heavy metal enthusiasts alike both embraced that unpleasant symbolism, hell, Triple H incorporated the Iron Cross into his gimmick because he was in to Motorhead. The Iron Cross was established in 1813 and it's unfortunate what Hitler did to it. And what hate groups adopted it. I do not believe either Lemmy (who was really into German military memorabilia) and HHH had any political motivations for wearing it. Lemmy has gone on record to defend people of color entering the music business. He got hate from his interest in war memorabilia but it is widely known and accepted that all he had was an interest in it. Who knows what he thought in his head but as someone who has done plenty of research in his personality, he never displayed any sort of prejudice to anyone. I actually think, that his son may be biracial. Don't quote me on that but I think it may be true.
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Post by Ludwig Kaiser’s Walk on Sept 20, 2021 22:05:24 GMT -5
Wrestling was somehow more entertaining when it was this backwards ass bullshit way to used to be
But, I’ll still take the current day stuff with the wrestlers, you know, not hazing everybody.
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Post by polarbearpete on Sept 20, 2021 22:16:35 GMT -5
A motorcycle shop had a nazi-adjacent symbol as its logo, which doesn't make it not a nazi-adjacent symbol. That's the point being made here. A motorcycle shop put the nazi-adjacent symbol on their shirt to sell their shirt to people who wanted to nazi-adjacent symbols on their shirt, and now if you google search "Dago choppers" all you find is people in the nazi-adjacent symbol shirt or trying to sell the shirt, or Etsy shops selling recreations of the shirt. Why are people wanting recreations of the shirt for a biker shop that burned down over twenty years ago and whose only lingering legacy seems to be its t-shirt with a nazi-adjacent symbol on it? It feels like all the vocal skepticism to this being an issue approaches it on the most surface level "Oh there's a store" level and then completely stops following the thread right there while paying zero mind to any of the logical questions involved in it, let alone acknowledgement of the interplay of white supremacy in biker gangs or this shop's at least merch-focused praise to the Hells Angels, which is not a racially diverse biker gang. These things aren't even subtext. They're literally the text of the shirt. No one is saying the shirt is fine. But the shirt does not prove he’s a white supremacist which is the reason the photo was posted.
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hassanchop
Grimlock
Who are you to doubt Belldandy?
Posts: 14,774
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Post by hassanchop on Sept 20, 2021 22:21:51 GMT -5
If we’re talking about bullying, how do we feel about Bruiser Brody when you have this:
And not to mention now that we’re mentioning bikers we have an upcoming episode of Bruiser Bedlam, also has the name Bruiser and people like Lance Storm say he was a nice guy
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Post by Cyno on Sept 20, 2021 22:22:16 GMT -5
The shirt with all the other stuff posted about him suggests even if he's not a white supremacist, he's certainly white supremacist-adjacent.
If it was just the shirt in a vacuum, maybe you could make excuses that wouldn't fall completely flat. But my Jewish ass still wouldn't want to be anywhere near him out of fear of my life.
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agent817
Fry's dog Seymour
Doesn't Know Whose Ring It Is
Posts: 21,159
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Post by agent817 on Sept 20, 2021 23:43:36 GMT -5
Alternative title: Rest in Piss. You made me want to post this.
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agent817
Fry's dog Seymour
Doesn't Know Whose Ring It Is
Posts: 21,159
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Post by agent817 on Sept 20, 2021 23:58:28 GMT -5
There are way too many of these stories that involve people shitting in things that aren’t toilets. Even then, that whole thing disgusts me. Not just because it's really gross, but what's the joke? There's nothing funny about it at all.
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Mecca
Wade Wilson
Posts: 25,049
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Post by Mecca on Sept 21, 2021 1:13:33 GMT -5
Wrestling was somehow more entertaining when it was this backwards ass bullshit way to used to be But, I’ll still take the current day stuff with the wrestlers, you know, not hazing everybody. The show being boring has nothing to do with the guys being nice.
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Post by Hobby Drifter on Sept 21, 2021 1:27:47 GMT -5
Is anybody else getting just the least bit annoyed with people who say “don’t make it political” about things that shouldn’t *be* considered political?
Like, signaling to white suprematists that you’re cool with them, getting vaccinated, and taking common-sense precautions to keep yourself and others from getting sick shouldn’t be considered “political”.
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Legion
Fry's dog Seymour
Amy Pond's #1 fan
Hail Hydra!
Posts: 22,709
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Post by Legion on Sept 21, 2021 2:47:53 GMT -5
Given who he is friends with, I severely doubt he is an outright racist, a dumb hick who has little understanding of the symbols and pain those things can cause, absolutely, but doubtfully a outright racist.
And even then, Mark Calloway can be whatever he wants, I'm only interested in the character of the Undertaker who entertained me for decades. I can separate the two, and will still loook back with nostalgic fondness on his character, even if I now know the man appears to be a disappointing tool.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2021 5:42:09 GMT -5
By the way, a friend of mine (who isn't a fan) heard about this and misread the headline as saying Taker was ordering wrestlers to piss and shit on his belongings That was the demand of the equally controversial wrestler, the Underweartaker, whose disturbing ways have thankfully largely faded from history.
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Post by polarbearpete on Sept 21, 2021 6:51:56 GMT -5
The shirt with all the other stuff posted about him suggests even if he's not a white supremacist, he's certainly white supremacist-adjacent.
If it was just the shirt in a vacuum, maybe you could make excuses that wouldn't fall completely flat. But my Jewish ass still wouldn't want to be anywhere near him out of fear of my life.
Has anything been posted except attire? A bike shop with questionable imagery, a blue lives matter shirt and a don’t tread on me hat?
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Post by Can you afford to pay me, Gah on Sept 21, 2021 8:04:55 GMT -5
The shirt with all the other stuff posted about him suggests even if he's not a white supremacist, he's certainly white supremacist-adjacent.
If it was just the shirt in a vacuum, maybe you could make excuses that wouldn't fall completely flat. But my Jewish ass still wouldn't want to be anywhere near him out of fear of my life.
Has anything been posted except attire? A bike shop with questionable imagery, a blue lives matter shirt and a don’t tread on me hat? A page or two back someone posted a twitter link that had the don't tread on me and Blue lives matter shirt (Supporting the Police whole different subject but don't call that bad IMO) but he also had screen shot of all the donations he made to a political party and some of the people he donated to raises eye brows. But as for him saying or posting anything? no. As for others saying he did something beyond what we know here? No. Outside of Rene as anybody else said anything bad about Taker in the locker room and ext? Again no. People said doing so would black ball you from WWE but shit never stopped others trashing Vince, HHH, and hell most every Vince yes man there was. Which is a point Ive made before. With so many who have no filters and nobody else said bad things about the guy. Ever said anything about Taker hazing everyone or things of that nature. regardless of his position in the company you think after 30+ years you would hear more.
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Post by polarbearpete on Sept 21, 2021 8:23:24 GMT -5
Has anything been posted except attire? A bike shop with questionable imagery, a blue lives matter shirt and a don’t tread on me hat? A page or two back someone posted a twitter link that had the don't tread on me and Blue lives matter shirt (Supporting the Police whole different subject but don't call that bad IMO) but he also had screen shot of all the donations he made to a political party and some of the people he donated to raises eye brows. But as for him saying or posting anything? no. As for others saying he did something beyond what we know here? No. Outside of Rene as anybody else said anything bad about Taker in the locker room and ext? Again no. People said doing so would black ball you from WWE but shit never stopped others trashing Vince, HHH, and hell most every Vince yes man there was. Which is a point Ive made before. With so many who have no filters and nobody else said bad things about the guy. Ever said anything about Taker hazing everyone or things of that nature. regardless of his position in the company you think after 30+ years you would hear more. Yeah to me it seems like he’s an old Texan whose politics lean a certain way but nothing showing him to be a white supremacist. Those are two very different things.
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Post by Feyrhausen on Sept 21, 2021 8:29:38 GMT -5
A page or two back someone posted a twitter link that had the don't tread on me and Blue lives matter shirt (Supporting the Police whole different subject but don't call that bad IMO) but he also had screen shot of all the donations he made to a political party and some of the people he donated to raises eye brows. But as for him saying or posting anything? no. As for others saying he did something beyond what we know here? No. Outside of Rene as anybody else said anything bad about Taker in the locker room and ext? Again no. People said doing so would black ball you from WWE but shit never stopped others trashing Vince, HHH, and hell most every Vince yes man there was. Which is a point Ive made before. With so many who have no filters and nobody else said bad things about the guy. Ever said anything about Taker hazing everyone or things of that nature. regardless of his position in the company you think after 30+ years you would hear more. Yeah to me it seems like he’s an old Texan whose politics lean a certain way but nothing showing him to be a white supremacist. Those are two very different things. There was something that was said about a lot of people lately that supported a certain someone and it certainly seems like it applies to Taker. It goes "This person may not be racist (or misogynist/facist/etc.) but they also dont seem to have a problem supporting someone else who obviously is."
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Post by polarbearpete on Sept 21, 2021 8:34:00 GMT -5
Yeah to me it seems like he’s an old Texan whose politics lean a certain way but nothing showing him to be a white supremacist. Those are two very different things. There was something that was said about a lot of people lately that supported a certain someone and it certainly seems like it applies to Taker. It goes "This person may not be racist (or misogynist/facist/etc.) but they also dont seem to have a problem supporting someone else who obviously is." Sure, that could definitely be a view that some people have. I think we’re knocking on the forbidden door of this forum’s rules so I’ll stop right there!
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Post by Feyrhausen on Sept 21, 2021 9:09:37 GMT -5
The shirt with all the other stuff posted about him suggests even if he's not a white supremacist, he's certainly white supremacist-adjacent.
If it was just the shirt in a vacuum, maybe you could make excuses that wouldn't fall completely flat. But my Jewish ass still wouldn't want to be anywhere near him out of fear of my life.
Has anything been posted except attire? A bike shop with questionable imagery, a blue lives matter shirt and a don’t tread on me hat? There is a Dave Chappelle (that has not aged well re: slut shaming) that this reminds me of. To paraphrase Dave Taker may not be a white supremacist, but he is wearing a white supremacist uniform.
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Post by polarbearpete on Sept 21, 2021 10:21:13 GMT -5
Has anything been posted except attire? A bike shop with questionable imagery, a blue lives matter shirt and a don’t tread on me hat? an SS logo, a shirt supporting a cause in direct opposition to one founded to bring attention to the murder of black americans and a hat adopted by racists? No, I don't think so Simply asking if there’s anything else out there. And agree to disagree on condemning someone as a white supremacist based exclusively on that. Certainly isn’t a good look for him, though and I can think of some other things to call him based on that.
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