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Post by EoE: Well There's Your Problem on May 3, 2022 12:03:13 GMT -5
I've tried half-heartedly to make it a meme or a catchphrase around here, and I don't think there's a better time to say it: Stu Grayson's great, why are we not talking about that guy all the time? But really and truly, Stu Grayson was a revelation of a wrestler when AEW started up, and it was depressing how after a few seeming brushes with a push, he just fell all the way to the wayside despite being an amazing talent. Hell, the guy should get a lot of credit just for how much he's gotten Anna Jay over with the BTE viewers. AEW is so stacked with quality wrestlers that it's not hard to see how someone as good as Stu is relegated to doing multiman webshow matches that pop the crowd like woah. I think a lot of the teams that AEW have pushed harder than Dark Order (Acclaimed, Team Taz, House of Black, reDragon, FTR) are good choices. But man, Stu is still special enough that I've always wanted more of a place for him. This situation is real indicative of how, even if you limit or even eliminate the kinds of factors that usually lead to people being lost in the shuffle, it can still happen just by sheer bad luck. I haven’t really seen enough of him because I haven’t seen a lot of AEW in general, but Grayson is definitely good enough to warrant some kind of push on Dynamite. But so are all the people who currently ARE getting pushed on Dynamite. Who do you take out of the rotation to put him in?
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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2022 12:29:37 GMT -5
I hope they're able to work out something mutually agreeable, even if it's more of a per appearance deal like Pretty Peter has been moved to. Stu (and the entire Dark Order, really) just feels like an "AEW guy" to me at this point, and him leaving because of financial disagreements really would be crushing. It's awesome that AEW has grown and developed as much as it has in such a short period of time, and I think the company is better than ever, but it is sad that we're starting to get to that three year mark where a lot of the "originals" are starting to leave.
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Post by Killah Ray on May 3, 2022 12:36:40 GMT -5
Losing Stu sucks since he and Uno should've had at least a brief run with the titles even if it was way later than necessary (see Jurassic Express)...
It also sucks because I remember when him and Uno were one of the first big gets they were teasing with BTE before Dynamite started...
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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2022 12:54:38 GMT -5
Santana's been doing a cryptic countdown to September 1 on his Twitter lately, too, which very likely coincides with his contract expiration date. Honestly would not surprise me to see Santana and Ortiz try something different when their deals expire. To me, they probably have the best argument that they've been used poorly of anyone who has been on the AEW roster for an extended period of time.
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Dr. Bolty, Disaster Enby
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Post by Dr. Bolty, Disaster Enby on May 3, 2022 13:04:10 GMT -5
Santana's been doing a cryptic countdown to September 1 on his Twitter lately, too, which very likely coincides with his contract expiration date. Honestly would not surprise me to see Santana and Ortiz try something different when their deals expire. To me, they probably have the best argument that they've been used poorly of anyone who has been on the AEW roster for an extended period of time. It's kind of surreal that half of their gimmick is that they should be the champions but haven't been in title contention enough.
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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2022 13:12:15 GMT -5
Santana's been doing a cryptic countdown to September 1 on his Twitter lately, too, which very likely coincides with his contract expiration date. Honestly would not surprise me to see Santana and Ortiz try something different when their deals expire. To me, they probably have the best argument that they've been used poorly of anyone who has been on the AEW roster for an extended period of time. It's kind of surreal that half of their gimmick is that they should be the champions but haven't been in title contention enough. Yeah, and they're in this weird spot where they've definitely been prominently featured in major storylines throughout their run, but always as supporting cast. Given their talent and the hype they debuted with, you'd expect them to be multitime tag champions by this point, but they've really never even meaningfully been in contention. They're two guys who are still very much in their prime, and who don't have any kind of prior experience of being burned by WWE that others (like, say Luchasaurus) have that would give them pause. Wouldn't surprise me in the slightest to see them take a gamble on themselves and try something new when their contracts expire. Particularly given Santana's cryptic tweets lately. That also begs the interesting possibility that Ortiz may re-sign, but Santana may leave. Both have taken more solo indie bookings lately and, if reports are to be believed, Ortiz is considerably more content in AEW than Santana is. Obviously, this is all complete speculation, but it felt worth discussing in light of Santana's tweets.
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Dr. Bolty, Disaster Enby
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Post by Dr. Bolty, Disaster Enby on May 3, 2022 13:14:31 GMT -5
It's kind of surreal that half of their gimmick is that they should be the champions but haven't been in title contention enough. Yeah, and they're in this weird spot where they've definitely been prominently featured in major storylines throughout their run, but always as supporting cast. Given their talent and the hype they debuted with, you'd expect them to be multitime tag champions by this point, but they've really never even meaningfully been in contention. They're two guys who are still very much in their prime, and who don't have any kind of prior experience of being burned by WWE that others (like, say Luchasaurus) have that would give them pause. Wouldn't surprise me in the slightest to see them take a gamble on themselves and try something new when their contracts expire. Particularly given Santana's cryptic tweets lately. That also begs the interesting possibility that Ortiz may re-sign, but Santana may leave. Both have taken more solo indie bookings lately and, if reports are to be believed, Ortiz is considerably more content in AEW than Santana is. Obviously, this is all complete speculation, but it felt worth discussing in light of Santana's tweets. I can easily see why, because while I don't think they should be broken up and that they've got a ton of star power as a team, Santana has all of the makings of a breakout solo star. He's great in the ring, a great promo, and handsome as hell, probably one of the most attractive men on the AEW roster. He'd be right to bet on himself as a big deal.
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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2022 13:19:02 GMT -5
Yeah, and they're in this weird spot where they've definitely been prominently featured in major storylines throughout their run, but always as supporting cast. Given their talent and the hype they debuted with, you'd expect them to be multitime tag champions by this point, but they've really never even meaningfully been in contention. They're two guys who are still very much in their prime, and who don't have any kind of prior experience of being burned by WWE that others (like, say Luchasaurus) have that would give them pause. Wouldn't surprise me in the slightest to see them take a gamble on themselves and try something new when their contracts expire. Particularly given Santana's cryptic tweets lately. That also begs the interesting possibility that Ortiz may re-sign, but Santana may leave. Both have taken more solo indie bookings lately and, if reports are to be believed, Ortiz is considerably more content in AEW than Santana is. Obviously, this is all complete speculation, but it felt worth discussing in light of Santana's tweets. I can easily see why, because while I don't think they should be broken up and that they've got a ton of star power as a team, Santana has all of the makings of a breakout solo star. He's great in the ring, a great promo, and handsome as hell, probably one of the most attractive men on the AEW roster. He'd be right to bet on himself as a big deal. Agreed completely. I think Santana has major main event potential, whether as a singles or as the mouthpiece of his tag team. And I think that his next 4 months in AEW will go a long way towards determining whether he decides to go try and prove that in another company, or re-signs.
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Post by oxbaker on May 3, 2022 13:27:14 GMT -5
I can easily see why, because while I don't think they should be broken up and that they've got a ton of star power as a team, Santana has all of the makings of a breakout solo star. He's great in the ring, a great promo, and handsome as hell, probably one of the most attractive men on the AEW roster. He'd be right to bet on himself as a big deal. Agreed completely. I think Santana has major main event potential, whether as a singles or as the mouthpiece of his tag team. And I think that his next 4 months in AEW will go a long way towards determining whether he decides to go try and prove that in another company, or re-signs. I understand some people getting lost in the shuffle with the roster expansions/upgrades (Grayson included, although I do think he has some things to offer if given a focus), but I don’t understand Santana/Ortiz not being given more opportunities and a run with the belts. I hope they’ll correct this. They belong in the loaded AEW tag scene but they can’t be just scenery. A real angle focused on them resulting in them winning the championship is overdue.
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Post by nihilismizhawt on May 3, 2022 13:59:24 GMT -5
AEW wanted Stu Grayson, but not at the money he wanted. If they gave out big contracts to everyone who wants one, then they're being fiscally irresponsible. Everyone bashes WCW to this day for overpaying talent, maybe it's ok for AEW to learn from that mistake? It's ok if two parties can't come to a financial agreement, that happens in entertainment.
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Post by Killah Ray on May 3, 2022 14:03:12 GMT -5
Santana's been doing a cryptic countdown to September 1 on his Twitter lately, too, which very likely coincides with his contract expiration date. Honestly would not surprise me to see Santana and Ortiz try something different when their deals expire. To me, they probably have the best argument that they've been used poorly of anyone who has been on the AEW roster for an extended period of time. Yeah if nothing else I feel like Santana is gone regardless...
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Dr. Bolty, Disaster Enby
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Post by Dr. Bolty, Disaster Enby on May 3, 2022 14:08:17 GMT -5
Santana's been doing a cryptic countdown to September 1 on his Twitter lately, too, which very likely coincides with his contract expiration date. Honestly would not surprise me to see Santana and Ortiz try something different when their deals expire. To me, they probably have the best argument that they've been used poorly of anyone who has been on the AEW roster for an extended period of time. Yeah if nothing else I feel like Santana is gone regardless... We will see. Wrestlers should absolutely play hardball when they can. Kevin Owens certainly gave a masterclass in it by stirring up speculation of an AEW jump in the most delightfully extra way possible before re-signing with WWE. I fully expect to see the same from other wrestlers who can get away with it.
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Post by eJm on May 3, 2022 14:09:43 GMT -5
Yeah if nothing else I feel like Santana is gone regardless... We will see. Wrestlers should absolutely play hardball when they can. Kevin Owens certainly gave a masterclass in it by stirring up speculation of an AEW jump in the most delightfully extra way possible before re-signing with WWE. I fully expect to see the same from other wrestlers who can get away with it. Does also help one of the hotter angles on the show right now involves Santana so if the crowd reacts to his match with Jericho this week and beyond, that's basically more leverage.
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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2022 14:18:37 GMT -5
Yeah if nothing else I feel like Santana is gone regardless... We will see. Wrestlers should absolutely play hardball when they can. Kevin Owens certainly gave a masterclass in it by stirring up speculation of an AEW jump in the most delightfully extra way possible before re-signing with WWE. I fully expect to see the same from other wrestlers who can get away with it. Absolutely, and I think that the fact that this conversation is starting to be had on social media and in wrestling forums was exactly Santana's intention with his tweets. He's definitely sowing the seeds for maximizing his value when the time comes to decide his future. But he is someone who I can objectively understand not being entirely thrilled with his time in AEW.
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Post by Cyno on May 3, 2022 14:19:16 GMT -5
Get your money while you can. This era in wrestling is one where wrestlers have the most leverage they've had since 2000.
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Post by Convoy on May 3, 2022 18:28:36 GMT -5
Proud 'n' Powerful's story felt like it was headed to them finally taking the titles from the Bucks, and then suddenly the Lucha Bros did it. Then they were dethroned by Jurassic Express, who now feel "off" as champions. I could see Santana & Ortiz just moving on and working a ton of indies to make up for things.
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Post by Dub H on May 3, 2022 18:30:48 GMT -5
Proud 'n' Powerful's story felt like it was headed to them finally taking the titles from the Bucks, and then suddenly the Lucha Bros did it. Then they were dethroned by Jurassic Express, who now feel "off" as champions. I could see Santana & Ortiz just moving on and working a ton of indies to make up for things. I disagree on both accounts that they were headed to be the ones to take the titles and on JE feeling off. But still PnP would be great champions
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Post by mystermystery on May 3, 2022 19:10:25 GMT -5
It’ll bum me out if Stu goes. The people being dropped bum me out. I initially was excited for AEW to see guys like Stu or Jack Evans on a big stage. I 1000% get bringing in guys like Danielson and Sting, it’d be stupid not too. It’s just not really as exciting for me. They’re great and having phenomenal runs, but I want room for the Chuck Taylors and Sonny Kiss’s of the world too. I said it a while back in another thread, but part of the initial appeal of AEW for me was watching wrestlers who I'd only seen on the indies finally get a shot on national TV. Anthony Bowens, Max Caster, Private Party, Alex Reynolds, Kris Statlander - going from watching them in a rec center in Rahway to watching them on TNT in primetime was so, so cool. AEW shifting from "a collection of top indie stars and relatively unknown developing prospects" to "a collection of top stars from all around the world" is an understandable move but it feels like a bit of the company's soul has been lost in the transition. This is well wrote and pretty much where I stand.
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Post by "Evil Brood" Jackson Vanik on May 3, 2022 19:19:02 GMT -5
Could Santana and Ortiz have been booked better at times? Absolutely. But they've also been one of the most featured acts in company history with a lot of stories left to tell. If it's a money thing, it is what it is. But I'd have faith in AEW continuing to push them. I just don't know if they should trust WWE to either match an offer or push them like they matter. And if it's not WWE, no one else will match what AEW offers.
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on May 3, 2022 19:29:00 GMT -5
Could Santana and Ortiz have been booked better at times? Absolutely. But they've also been one of the most featured acts in company history with a lot of stories left to tell. If it's a money thing, it is what it is. But I'd have faith in AEW continuing to push them. I just don't know if they should trust WWE to either match an offer or push them like they matter. And if it's not WWE, no one else will match what AEW offers. And while yes, them winning the tag belts would be great, to say they've been underutilized due to that when they were involved in the Parking Lot Brawl, and both Stadium Stampede's and maybe potentially a third one, and ALSO Blood and Guts? They're an act that has been all over cards, in both singles and doubles... they've done a shit ton of stuff in AEW and they're over because of it. I hope they do get paid, but I also don't think they've been misused that much when it comes to how the company has presented them, outside of not becoming tag champs yet, they've done a shit ton here.
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