agent817
Fry's dog Seymour
Doesn't Know Whose Ring It Is
Posts: 21,273
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Post by agent817 on Dec 21, 2021 15:40:09 GMT -5
I must ask you this, especially those who criticized Liv's promo work - would you rather listen to a Liv Morgan promo, or one from Eva Marie?
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2021 16:04:48 GMT -5
I must ask you this, especially those who criticized Liv's promo work - would you rather listen to a Liv Morgan promo, or one from Eva Marie? I think comparing the two does more harm than good. Obviously Liv is a bit better, but how bad must Liv be if Eva Marie is the comparison?
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Post by Dave the Dave on Dec 21, 2021 16:15:26 GMT -5
Liv was good in a tag team with two good workers guiding her. Now they’re gone and well….here we are
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2021 16:18:11 GMT -5
Liv was good in a tag team with two good workers guiding her. Now they’re gone and well….here we are Liv is much better now than she was then IMO.
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Post by ThankGodForSidJustice on Dec 21, 2021 16:39:37 GMT -5
Liv was good in a tag team with two good workers guiding her. Now they’re gone and well….here we are Liv is much better now than she was then IMO. Yeah Liv in original heel Riott Squad was not that good. If anything it wasn't until that ended and she was on her own the first time that she started to get better. Also I don't know if I would say Sarah Logan was a good worker. I mean I guess she was ok and probably better then greenhorn Liv circa 2018 but I don't know if there was anything I saw that was that impressive. Ruby always struck me as the brains of the team and always came off like she was guiding the other two.
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Post by Dave the Dave on Dec 21, 2021 16:53:17 GMT -5
Liv was good in a tag team with two good workers guiding her. Now they’re gone and well….here we are Liv is much better now than she was then IMO. Maybe it’s because she surprised me with how good she was then, I was more impressed.
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agent817
Fry's dog Seymour
Doesn't Know Whose Ring It Is
Posts: 21,273
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Post by agent817 on Dec 21, 2021 16:57:17 GMT -5
I must ask you this, especially those who criticized Liv's promo work - would you rather listen to a Liv Morgan promo, or one from Eva Marie? I think comparing the two does more harm than good. Obviously Liv is a bit better, but how bad must Liv be if Eva Marie is the comparison? Touché.
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Post by smokinvokoun86 on Dec 21, 2021 19:16:40 GMT -5
Just watched the clip. That definitely was a dreadful promo. Liv’s delivery was awful, but the material certainly did her no favors. And I thought she cut a very good promo during the contract signing awhile ago. But they probably shouldn’t give her super long monologues like that. Because that was really hard to sit through.
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Post by HMARK Center on Dec 22, 2021 12:27:15 GMT -5
Ok, so I haven't watched this, I don't intend on watching it, so I'm not singling this segment out or anything, just want to pose a general observation:
Why does WWE have a developmental system is they keep bringing people up who don't cut promos the way Vince wants them, who don't seem capable of carrying consistently entertaining or well-done 10 minute matches, or sometimes even have problems with things like basic strikes and stuff? What are they doing at the Performance Center and NXT?
Like, there's a whole other question here, too, but it's been beaten to death over the years: why does WWE insist on forcing wrestlers into situations where their weaknesses get exposed rather than trying to emphasize their strengths as performers? Again, though, this isn't new.
But the in-house developmental has been with WWE for like a decade now or something, but we still seem to get a lot of people up on the main roster who routinely look lost in many situations, or even don't hit the ropes right, seem zoned out during battle royals, etc. Are they just doing hours of forward rolls and standing on the ropes and not actually working on fundamentals?
Follow-up on that: if you have performers who are lacking in some of those areas (e.g. Liv, Carmella, Zelina, etc.), why aren't you letting them work consistently on shows like Main Event or something to keep honing their craft, and instead tossing them into title feuds? If the answer to that is "because we don't have enough wrestlers on hand to work with the Horsewomen and the couple other women we've at least given some kind of a push to", that speaks to some major structural problems that have to be addressed.
It's just setting people up to fail, and it feels particularly pronounced with their women's divisions at the moment. I know there's debates about which shows do or don't feature their women enough or in what kind of capacity they do, but throwing people out onto national TV and telling them "do something we haven't really prepared you for or something that we're fully aware is not in your wheelhouse as a performer and make it work, damnit, and don't forget we've been cutting people left and right for the last two years" is just a surefire way to derail or stall what could be promising careers.
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Post by eJm on Dec 22, 2021 12:48:38 GMT -5
Ok, so I haven't watched this, I don't intend on watching it, so I'm not singling this segment out or anything, just want to pose a general observation: Why does WWE have a developmental system is they keep bringing people up who don't cut promos the way Vince wants them, who don't seem capable of carrying consistently entertaining or well-done 10 minute matches, or sometimes even have problems with things like basic strikes and stuff? What are they doing at the Performance Center and NXT? Simple answer; he let HHH go full hog on developmental and run it the way he wanted to (or in a really confusing manner if Chris Hero’s to be believed and considering he was there twice, I have no reason not to) and then be annoyed when they weren’t developing them the way he wanted them to be. I keep saying this again and again and again, if the both of them were sat in a room together and structured out a plan for what they wanted the PC to be, who should teach what and how to go about it, we’d have not been in the mess we are where outside of a select few, the PC hasn’t really produced suitable people in the rate they would have wanted to. Like, even with those few, it isn’t really enough a good rate considering the millions they’ve likely fed into the thing.
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Post by HMARK Center on Dec 22, 2021 13:08:07 GMT -5
Ok, so I haven't watched this, I don't intend on watching it, so I'm not singling this segment out or anything, just want to pose a general observation: Why does WWE have a developmental system is they keep bringing people up who don't cut promos the way Vince wants them, who don't seem capable of carrying consistently entertaining or well-done 10 minute matches, or sometimes even have problems with things like basic strikes and stuff? What are they doing at the Performance Center and NXT? Simple answer; he let HHH go full hog on developmental and run it the way he wanted to (or in a really confusing manner if Chris Hero’s to be believed and considering he was there twice, I have no reason not to) and then be annoyed when they weren’t developing them the way he wanted them to be. I keep saying this again and again and again, if the both of them were sat in a room together and structured out a plan for what they wanted the PC to be, who should teach what and how to go about it, we’d have not been in the mess we are where outside of a select few, the PC hasn’t really produced suitable people in the rate they would have wanted to. Like, even with those few, it isn’t really enough a good rate considering the millions they’ve likely fed into the thing. You're definitely right to point out the lack of a guiding set of developmental principles, but man, the lack of fundamentals is more jarring than anything else. There's just no excuse to put someone in the ring on the highest profile wrestling shows on Earth who can't work a regular match without serious handholding, but WWE has these people go through the PC and then do just that. There's some great coaches down there, what could actually be happening?
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salz4life
Grimlock
Prichard is a guy who gets that his job is to service his boss.
Posts: 14,007
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Post by salz4life on Dec 22, 2021 15:13:06 GMT -5
She's a pretty girl, working hard, but her babyface appeal is less being an underdog and more being overwhelmed by the booker's demands. She needs development on a smaller scale. Mandy Rose is on NXT again and she feels much more confident than Liv. I feel for her. If they hadn't moved Mandy down already.... I'd say Liv should be down there.
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Post by Jindrak Mark on Dec 22, 2021 15:22:59 GMT -5
She's a pretty girl, working hard, but her babyface appeal is less being an underdog and more being overwhelmed by the booker's demands. She needs development on a smaller scale. Mandy Rose is on NXT again and she feels much more confident than Liv. I feel for her. If they hadn't moved Mandy down already.... I'd say Liv should be down there. I said that a month or two ago. Give Liv a babyface version of the current Mandy NXT push for 6-12 months. She'll be the top star in the division and wrestling big matches every month or so on Takeovers (or whatever the specials are called now). She should come out the other end with more confidence, experience and feeling like a bigger star and improved worker.
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Post by ThankGodForSidJustice on Dec 22, 2021 15:49:46 GMT -5
If they hadn't moved Mandy down already.... I'd say Liv should be down there. I said that a month or two ago. Give Liv a babyface version of the current Mandy NXT push for 6-12 months. She'll be the top star in the division and wrestling big matches every month or so on Takeovers (or whatever the specials are called now). She should come out the other end with more confidence, experience and feeling like a bigger star and improved worker. Thing is though Mandy got a complete rehaul in a new look and new stable to lead. Therefore if/when she comes back to the main roster she'll be set up better for a fresh start and relaunch. Liv I don't think needs a repackaging as she's more over and has more of a crowd connection then Mandy did. Liv just simply needs to be used better. I'm sure being in NXT would help in that regard in the same way it helped Mandy just by being a big fish in a small pond. Problem is when you bring her back to the main roster how would you reintroduce her? Like yeah I'm back now and I really didn't do crap the last time I was here but I've been in NXT 2.0. for the last year and now I'm good? Another problem with her going to NXT 2.0. is Liv's appeal is she's the young cute good looking babyface girl next door and Cora Jade has that market covered better in that she's a lot newer and younger then Liv. Liv is still young but not as young as she looks and comes off as in that she's 27 playing 20 and has been employed for six years while Cora is playing 20 and legit is 20 and is brand new.
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Dec 22, 2021 17:05:18 GMT -5
I said that a month or two ago. Give Liv a babyface version of the current Mandy NXT push for 6-12 months. She'll be the top star in the division and wrestling big matches every month or so on Takeovers (or whatever the specials are called now). She should come out the other end with more confidence, experience and feeling like a bigger star and improved worker. Thing is though Mandy got a complete rehaul in a new look and new stable to lead. Therefore if/when she comes back to the main roster she'll be set up better for a fresh start and relaunch. Liv I don't think needs a repackaging as she's more over and has more of a crowd connection then Mandy did. Liv just simply needs to be used better. I'm sure being in NXT would help in that regard in the same way it helped Mandy just by being a big fish in a small pond. Problem is when you bring her back to the main roster how would you reintroduce her? Like yeah I'm back now and I really didn't do crap the last time I was here but I've been in NXT 2.0. for the last year and now I'm good? Another problem with her going to NXT 2.0. is Liv's appeal is she's the young cute good looking babyface girl next door and Cora Jade has that market covered better in that she's a lot newer and younger then Liv. Liv is still young but not as young as she looks and comes off as in that she's 27 playing 20 and has been employed for six years while Cora is playing 20 and legit is 20 and is brand new. Also Liv has already been through like... 3 complete gimmick overhauls... on the main roster.
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Post by Hypnosis on Dec 22, 2021 17:27:50 GMT -5
Thing is though Mandy got a complete rehaul in a new look and new stable to lead. Therefore if/when she comes back to the main roster she'll be set up better for a fresh start and relaunch. Liv I don't think needs a repackaging as she's more over and has more of a crowd connection then Mandy did. Liv just simply needs to be used better. I'm sure being in NXT would help in that regard in the same way it helped Mandy just by being a big fish in a small pond. Problem is when you bring her back to the main roster how would you reintroduce her? Like yeah I'm back now and I really didn't do crap the last time I was here but I've been in NXT 2.0. for the last year and now I'm good? Another problem with her going to NXT 2.0. is Liv's appeal is she's the young cute good looking babyface girl next door and Cora Jade has that market covered better in that she's a lot newer and younger then Liv. Liv is still young but not as young as she looks and comes off as in that she's 27 playing 20 and has been employed for six years while Cora is playing 20 and legit is 20 and is brand new. Also Liv has already been through like... 3 complete gimmick overhauls... on the main roster. 1. Riott Squad Blue Tongue Liv 2. Bathtub Liv 3. Dominatrix Plucky Face Liv?
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Post by EoE: Well There's Your Problem on Dec 22, 2021 18:30:10 GMT -5
Also Liv has already been through like... 3 complete gimmick overhauls... on the main roster. 1. Riott Squad Blue Tongue Liv 2. Bathtub Liv 3. Dominatrix Plucky Face Liv? It’s only really been one gimmick overhaul, that being the months off for repackaging from the first Riott Squad run to the former lesbian/bubble bath enthusiast that she still technically is because the character hasn’t shifted that dramatically otherwise, even covering a second Riott Squad run.
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Post by Lizuka #BLM on Dec 22, 2021 19:17:42 GMT -5
I'm just wondering whether or not Liv is real yet.
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Post by Non Banjoble Tokens on Dec 24, 2021 2:18:52 GMT -5
They should go back do Dominatrix Liv but she needs a gimp of her own this time. How bout...Von Wagner?
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Post by KAMALARAMBO: BOOMSHAKALAKA!!! on Dec 24, 2021 23:47:49 GMT -5
Threads like this get me wistful about the Mickie James, Maria, AJ Lee, etc threads of old. The ones where about half the posters said the woman in question was the greatest thing since sliced bread and the other half hated her. You folks have nothing on those You folks are way too rational these days
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