Cranjis McBasketball
Crow T. Robot
Knew what the hell that thing was supposed to be
Peace Love and Nothing But
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Post by Cranjis McBasketball on Dec 30, 2021 19:11:46 GMT -5
I thought he said he wrestled 400 matches in one year, which is entirely feasible. I'm certain he actually said 400 matches, just that "400 days" was funnier and seems like something he'd blurt out in the heat of a moment. He got ridiculous trying to explain the international date line and other nonsense, but the man worked non-stop. Try getting someone to work an extra hour at work, it’s like pulling teeth. Hogan hopped on a plane and was off to another city to wrestle in a couple hours.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2021 20:47:37 GMT -5
"Ryback was never over". The dude was the hottest thing in WWE during his win streak. This one is one of the more modern narratives that really isn't remotely true. You're right. Dude WAS the hottest thing at the time. He got over via the Goldberg method of killing jobbers and then working up the card. The crowd got into FEED ME MORE. Was he a lousy worker? I dunno, I'm not a wrestler. To hear Punk say it, he was the shits and unsafe, but Punk is well known for sometimes holding a grudge way too long. Either way, they had a hot badass babyface so they.. turned him heel, for some reason.
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Dec 30, 2021 21:28:29 GMT -5
"Ryback was never over". The dude was the hottest thing in WWE during his win streak. This one is one of the more modern narratives that really isn't remotely true. You're right. Dude WAS the hottest thing at the time. He got over via the Goldberg method of killing jobbers and then working up the card. The crowd got into FEED ME MORE. I mean the biggest problem with that (And the Goldberg push in general) is... well at some point the guys gotta lose or you have to keep him from ever doing anything meaningful. and I think that was part of Ryback's problem was... past the aura he had... he really didn't have much else. (that SAID they still could have done way more with him... even if he would likely have petered off eventually anyway)
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2021 21:33:56 GMT -5
This one is one of the more modern narratives that really isn't remotely true. You're right. Dude WAS the hottest thing at the time. He got over via the Goldberg method of killing jobbers and then working up the card. The crowd got into FEED ME MORE. I mean the biggest problem with that (And the Goldberg push in general) is... well at some point the guys gotta lose or you have to keep him from ever doing anything meaningful. and I think that was part of Ryback's problem was... past the aura he had... he really didn't have much else. (that SAID they still could have done way more with him... even if he would likely have petered off eventually anyway) Oh no, Ryback is not a guy you could build the company around, but you're given lightning in a bottle of that nature that just doesn't come around super often, I sorta feel like you should work with that.
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Post by sungod2020 on Dec 30, 2021 21:43:05 GMT -5
This one is one of the more modern narratives that really isn't remotely true. You're right. Dude WAS the hottest thing at the time. He got over via the Goldberg method of killing jobbers and then working up the card. The crowd got into FEED ME MORE. I mean the biggest problem with that (And the Goldberg push in general) is... well at some point the guys gotta lose or you have to keep him from ever doing anything meaningful. and I think that was part of Ryback's problem was... past the aura he had... he really didn't have much else. (that SAID they still could have done way more with him... even if he would likely have petered off eventually anyway) I feel he was pushed too quick. He started out squashing no name jobbers, then I think he moved up to briefly feuding with JTTS, then put in the main event scene with CM Punk and John Cena. They should've at least built him up by having midcard feuds first, have the fans get acquainted with him DURING the streak. That way, when he finally did lose, it wouldn't kill any steam he built and fans would want him to come back for revenge, and then go from there. I feel the way he lost his streak(to Mark Henry via botched shellshock) made him look like a goofball, and then he formed an alliance with Curtis Axel and Paul Heyman which had homosexual undertones. He did recover a little bit two years later with a four month IC title run, but then lost it to Keven Owens and then was constantly jobbed out to Kalisto before quietly being let go. I don't know if he was ever long-term main event material, but I'm sure with some conditioning and the right booking, he could've been a serviceable upper midcarder who has occasional flirtations with the main event scene.
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fg
Unicron
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Post by fg on Dec 30, 2021 21:49:04 GMT -5
I mean the biggest problem with that (And the Goldberg push in general) is... well at some point the guys gotta lose or you have to keep him from ever doing anything meaningful. and I think that was part of Ryback's problem was... past the aura he had... he really didn't have much else. (that SAID they still could have done way more with him... even if he would likely have petered off eventually anyway) I feel he was pushed too quick. He started out squashing no name jobbers, then I think he moved up to briefly feuding with JTTS, then put in the main event scene with CM Punk and John Cena. They should've at least built him up by having midcard feuds first, have the fans get acquainted with him DURING the streak. That way, when he finally did lose, it wouldn't kill any steam he built and fans would want him to come back for revenge, and then go from there. I feel the way he lost his streak(to Mark Henry via botched shellshock) made him look like a goofball, and then he formed an alliance with Curtis Axel and Paul Heyman which had homosexual undertones. He did recover a little bit two years later with a four month IC title run, but then lost it to Keven Owens and then was constantly jobbed out to Kalisto before quietly being let go. I don't know if he was ever long-term main event material, but I'm sure with some conditioning and the right booking, he could've been a serviceable upper midcarder who has occasional flirtations with the main event scene. His first loss technically was to CM Punk when Brad Maddox interfered on CM’a behalf (Brad was the ref.)
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Mozenrath
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Post by Mozenrath on Dec 30, 2021 21:52:43 GMT -5
Gorilla Monsoon said Hulk didn't know the difference between a wristlock and a wrist watch on an A&E documentary, so that goes beyond an IWC narrative. Hulk had a hand full of impressive looking wrestling moves he could pull out when he needed to. He never looked very smooth when he did them, but it was fun to see him pull them out on rare occasion. Bret Hart also has said Hogan couldn't wrestle, but given Hulk is maybe the one person who messed with his capacity to do his job more than Shawn ever could have dreamed to, he may be a bit biased.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2021 21:55:31 GMT -5
Gorilla Monsoon said Hulk didn't know the difference between a wristlock and a wrist watch on an A&E documentary, so that goes beyond an IWC narrative. Hulk had a hand full of impressive looking wrestling moves he could pull out when he needed to. He never looked very smooth when he did them, but it was fun to see him pull them out on rare occasion. Bret Hart also has said Hogan couldn't wrestle, but given Hulk is maybe the one person who messed with his capacity to do his job more than Shawn ever could have dreamed to, he may be a bit biased. I always thought Hulk could sell his ass off before he did the hulk up, which made him perfect babyface material. Technician he was not (although I've seen enough of his Japanese work to say that he did have a few tricks he could bust out), but he had the psychology thing down pat in his prime
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Phosphor Glow
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Post by Phosphor Glow on Dec 30, 2021 22:14:18 GMT -5
I mean the biggest problem with that (And the Goldberg push in general) is... well at some point the guys gotta lose or you have to keep him from ever doing anything meaningful. and I think that was part of Ryback's problem was... past the aura he had... he really didn't have much else. (that SAID they still could have done way more with him... even if he would likely have petered off eventually anyway) Oh no, Ryback is not a guy you could build the company around, but you're given lightning in a bottle of that nature that just doesn't come around super often, I sorta feel like you should work with that. Yeah I think Ryback would've slotted very nicely into the upper midcard. He was indeed white hot and also had the advantage of being more naturally charismatic than Goldberg has ever been. Really coulda been something.
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BlackoutCreature
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Post by BlackoutCreature on Dec 30, 2021 23:10:40 GMT -5
Oh no, Ryback is not a guy you could build the company around, but you're given lightning in a bottle of that nature that just doesn't come around super often, I sorta feel like you should work with that. Yeah I think Ryback would've slotted very nicely into the upper midcard. He was indeed white hot and also had the advantage of being more naturally charismatic than Goldberg has ever been. Really coulda been something. Ryback rise and fall was pretty similar to Braun Strowman's. Fans got behind Ryback because they wanted to see him destroy CM Punk and take the title from him, same way they wanted to see Braun destroy Lesnar. When they realized that wasn't going to happen they lost interest.
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Post by Citizen Snips on Dec 30, 2021 23:25:52 GMT -5
Bret Hart also has said Hogan couldn't wrestle, but given Hulk is maybe the one person who messed with his capacity to do his job more than Shawn ever could have dreamed to, he may be a bit biased. I always thought Hulk could sell his ass off before he did the hulk up, which made him perfect babyface material. Technician he was not (although I've seen enough of his Japanese work to say that he did have a few tricks he could bust out), but he had the psychology thing down pat in his prime He wasn’t a great technical wrestler but his offense looked great and was super safe, he sold his ass off for the heels as you said and in his prime, he moved around great for a really big guy. He may not have been a great wrestler but he was an incredible performer.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2021 0:10:59 GMT -5
The biggest false narrative I usually see in the IWC is this idea that the belts are accomplishments.
Being around the business for a little while and seeing how things operate backstage, you would be considered a huge mark if you treated a title win like an achievement.
Title belts are seen as props. Infact, some wrestlers didn't even want to win a title because it meant they would have to carry it around everywhere.
I know this might come as a shock to a lot of people cause its fun to get invested in the stories and celebrate when your favorite reaches the top of the mountain... But the real winners are those who make the most money. That's why I'm sure the likes of Roddy Piper and Scott Hall never lost any sleep over winning any fake belts.
Does this change my mentality and enjoyment as a fan? Not really. I'm just a little bit more aware of the mindset of the business now. I can still enjoy wrestling and pretend it's real. I can still celebrate when Liv Morgan wins the title, just like I celebrated when Rocky Balboa won the title in Rocky 2.
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tafkaga
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Post by tafkaga on Dec 31, 2021 0:19:59 GMT -5
Gorilla Monsoon said Hulk didn't know the difference between a wristlock and a wrist watch on an A&E documentary, so that goes beyond an IWC narrative. Hulk had a hand full of impressive looking wrestling moves he could pull out when he needed to. He never looked very smooth when he did them, but it was fun to see him pull them out on rare occasion. Impressive is a strong word, it is...averagemg,god,not like it is bad but onee hardly could say it is impressive. Not that it matters,in his time in WWF he played his role as well as one could.In the end it was all that mattered,he didnt need fancy or amazing looking moves. I meant impressive for the Hulkster considering how unexpected it always was when he used them. Like the first time I saw that match with Muta my jaw hit the floor like "omg that almost looked kinda good... nice job Hulk."
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tafkaga
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Post by tafkaga on Dec 31, 2021 0:32:05 GMT -5
Gorilla Monsoon said Hulk didn't know the difference between a wristlock and a wrist watch on an A&E documentary, so that goes beyond an IWC narrative. Hulk had a hand full of impressive looking wrestling moves he could pull out when he needed to. He never looked very smooth when he did them, but it was fun to see him pull them out on rare occasion. Bret Hart also has said Hogan couldn't wrestle, but given Hulk is maybe the one person who messed with his capacity to do his job more than Shawn ever could have dreamed to, he may be a bit biased. I mean I guess it depends on what they mean by "wrestle". Hogan could whip out some surprising moves when he was motivated. I don't consider that to be "wrestling" on the same level as Bret Hart. Hulk was never going to be runner up for "Man of 1000 Holds" or "Excellence of Execution" on his best days. But, what Bret Hart calls wrestling isn't really wrestling either. It's just his idea of what fake fighting should look like.
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Sephiroth
Wade Wilson
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Post by Sephiroth on Dec 31, 2021 7:25:47 GMT -5
That Andre was always the lovable gentle giant. I’ve heard too many stories that make it sound like he could be a total prick when he put his mind to it; if he wasn’t taking liberties and beating the crap out of you in the ring, he was playing politics like Trips or Hogan and upending careers. And that’s disregarding some of his outrageous public behavior. Granted the man dealt with hassles most of us can’t imagine, particularly late in his life when he was in so much pain. But still no excuse.
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Post by The Barber on Dec 31, 2021 8:19:40 GMT -5
Dixie Carter was the worst promoter to work for due to late payments and angering network executives. As opposed to Paul Heyman (one that the IWC idolizes) who would CONSTANTLY miss payments (most never even getting payed at all) and his show pissing off TNN/Spike more than Dixie ever could. then there was Dixie's other smart idea as a promoter, such as when fans (who got into the show for free) liked the product so much they began chanting "Fire Russo", and her response was to threaten to fire any other writer but Russo if it happened again. say what you will about Heyman's abilities as a promoter, but I don't ever recall hearing him threaten to randomly fire someone because someone else sucked at their job. Maybe not, but it's still better than going into debt for a company and not getting it back. BTW, just because you are owned by a billion dollar corporation doesn't mean you have a billion dollar budget.
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Mozenrath
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Post by Mozenrath on Dec 31, 2021 8:20:26 GMT -5
That Andre was always the lovable gentle giant. I’ve heard too many stories that make it sound like he could be a total prick when he put his mind to it; if he wasn’t taking liberties and beating the crap out of you in the ring, he was playing politics like Trips or Hogan and upending careers. And that’s disregarding some of his outrageous public behavior. Granted the man dealt with hassles most of us can’t imagine, particularly late in his life when he was in so much pain. But still no excuse. It depends. He certainly could be very endearing, both in personality if he was in a good mood and because him being there meant usually a good payday. Still, he was fiercely protective of his value. He undermined Big John Studd professionally because he felt he detracted from Andre's value, and he had a distaste for Uncle Elmer for similar reasons, though he also probably just found him annoying on top of that, since he was kind of a rube. I think the only giant he liked working stateside was Kamala, both since he was significantly smaller, and because they had completely different gimmicks, so he'd sell for Kamala, even taking a slam from him in their cage match, if I recall. He also seemed to get on well with Giant Baba, but maybe that was just the check clearing. ![:P](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/tongue.png) Andre was a guy with an ego, a drinking problem, and chronic illness that was ultimately terminal. I can definitely see how he endeared himself to people and generally was given a pass, but he certainly had less pretty moments. Still, him firing the Freebirds will always be hilarious, even if he was arguably being a dick there. Two wrongs can occasionally make a right.
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tafkaga
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Post by tafkaga on Dec 31, 2021 10:16:50 GMT -5
Remembering the story of how Terry Funk had to hide from Andre to keep from being forced to watch The Princess Bride every single night will always make me chuckle.
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Post by The Legend of Groose on Dec 31, 2021 10:22:52 GMT -5
The biggest false narrative I usually see in the IWC is this idea that the belts are accomplishments. Being around the business for a little while and seeing how things operate backstage, you would be considered a huge mark if you treated a title win like an achievement. Title belts are seen as props. Infact, some wrestlers didn't even want to win a title because it meant they would have to carry it around everywhere. I know this might come as a shock to a lot of people cause its fun to get invested in the stories and celebrate when your favorite reaches the top of the mountain... But the real winners are those who make the most money. That's why I'm sure the likes of Roddy Piper and Scott Hall never lost any sleep over winning any fake belts. Does this change my mentality and enjoyment as a fan? Not really. I'm just a little bit more aware of the mindset of the business now. I can still enjoy wrestling and pretend it's real. I can still celebrate when Liv Morgan wins the title, just like I celebrated when Rocky Balboa won the title in Rocky 2. Thank you! This has been a BIG problem with the IWC in AEW. There's the WWE idea that if you don't have gold then you're not getting pushed or used. I can't tell you how many times I've seen people say how AEW is underutilized people because they are not getting a hot shot to the world belt. Danielson has been fine, Punk has been fine, hell MJF is seen as one of if not the biggest heel in the company and he's yet to get gold as far as I know. Not everyone needs a belt to be legitimized.
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Post by James Fabiano on Dec 31, 2021 11:19:55 GMT -5
Not sure how much of an IWC narrative this is but i always got the impression that Tony Schiavone was always an awful commentator based on the "butts in seats" comment and how the WWE painted him because of it as well what was written about him online. I never got to watch WCW so my first real viewings came from the Best of Nitro and other WCW dvd collections and i realised Tony was very good. Of course during the dieing years of WCW i'm sure he lost a lot of motivation but i was under the impression that he was always awful. Yeah, it was the final years of WCW where the Tony was bad narrative came from. And if you're going by only those years, it wasn't a false narrative. A toxic backstage environment, the same shit every week, and Tony just going through the motions at best because of it. Same could be said for Heenan. They were still good in the middle of 1998, but everything really went to shit in 1999. It was definitely during the MNW where he picked up this reputation with the shilling and the overexaggerating ("greatest night in the history of our sport!" and all that). I think this mutated into nitpicking his botches at the time too, especially his penchant for calling everything a "sidewalk slam." Having to sell fake Stings like he was completely fooled.
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