petef3
Don Corleone
Posts: 1,783
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Post by petef3 on Dec 25, 2021 17:55:50 GMT -5
The idea that the red rooster killed Terry Taylor's career and made him a joke. Personally, I think it's the fact that he's a giant tool and stooge and most people in the business can't stand him is why his career wasn't what it could have been. If Taylor were that hated he wouldn't have had those powerful booking positions to begin with.
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Post by jason1980s on Dec 25, 2021 18:01:27 GMT -5
I'm always surprised WCW and WWF kept hiring Terry back. I was shocked when I looked at the NXT staffing and saw his picture. He left WWF in 1990, left WCW in 1992, left WWF in mid 1993 and was back with WWF in 1999 and wasn't there long at all. And I think he left WWF once before after WCW closed.
Whenever I think of the Red Rooster the thing that comes to mind immediately is him taking his good old time coming to the ring at Survivor Series 1989 and Tito waving his arm/hand furiously to motion for him to get to the ring.
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Post by Edge of Insanity on Dec 25, 2021 18:02:16 GMT -5
The idea that the red rooster killed Terry Taylor's career and made him a joke. Personally, I think it's the fact that he's a giant tool and stooge and most people in the business can't stand him is why his career wasn't what it could have been. If Taylor were that hated he wouldn't have had those powerful booking positions to begin with. There is a reason he constantly bounced back and forth between companies consistently for years. He was ok in all doses but he wore out his welcome pretty quickly. Just listen to any interviews about him.
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tafkaga
Samurai Cop
the Dogfather
Posts: 2,228
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Post by tafkaga on Dec 27, 2021 9:26:21 GMT -5
Does anyone really claim that the Bushwhackers were "ruined" financially? I only ever heard that they sucked, which they did, and which I thought when I was seven and had never heard of the Sheepherders. It's not like Luke and Butch were cutting any checks for me. I hated them. Their act wasn't even "so bad it's good", it was more like fast forward button bad. When I think of them, I always think of a match from one of the early 90's Rumbles. I believe it was against the Beverly Brothers where they just spent about 5 minutes stomping around the ring and playing for the crowd while the referee tried to get them to stop and wrestle. They just pissed me off.
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Post by noobeast on Dec 27, 2021 10:06:35 GMT -5
The idea that the red rooster killed Terry Taylor's career and made him a joke. Personally, I think it's the fact that he's a giant tool and stooge and most people in the business can't stand him is why his career wasn't what it could have been. If Taylor were that hated he wouldn't have had those powerful booking positions to begin with. I've rarely ever heard anyone in the business speak well of him. In fact, I got piled on by some guys once for sharing a positive TT story lol. Not in a mean way, but it was a bunch of guys who had dealt with TT over the years, and boy...they don't like him. None of them think the guy is untalented, quite the opposite in fact. But they all agree he is a liar and a stooge, and that putting TT over to the people in charge was far more important than actually doing his job, even LONG after he was retired.
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Post by WoodStoner1 on Dec 27, 2021 10:17:14 GMT -5
Here's another false narrative: WWF ruined The Sheepherders by making them a comedy act. While it's true the now Bushwhackers weren't these hardcore specialists who struck fear in their opponents eyes anymore, you have to take into consideration a)they were in their 40s, b)the tag team division at the time was stacked, and c)it brought them more money and Nationwide exposure. Sure, they weren't "taken seriously" like they were in the Indies, but I find it alot better to have a 5 minute piss break of a match, then to have my face grated in barbed wire in a dying promotion. Also, on top of this, which is huge, Luke will tell you straight up: because of this, they got to be on network TV more than once in non-wrestling show shows, go to the White House, do tons of charity work, and make enough money in their run to set them for life and still be recognizable to more casual fans. It's really hard to argue that giving up 20 years of grueling, intense, and violent matches for a fan-oriented style where everyone loves you, makes you tons of money, and makes you recognizable to people that haven't watched wrestling in *years* 30 years later is a bad trade. Mike Bucci said the same thing about his time as Simon Dean. If I'd get paid doing comedy skits instead of ECW-style matches, give me the clown nose now!
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Post by WoodStoner1 on Dec 27, 2021 10:19:38 GMT -5
If Taylor were that hated he wouldn't have had those powerful booking positions to begin with. I've rarely ever heard anyone in the business speak well of him. In fact, I got piled on by some guys once for sharing a positive TT story lol. Not in a mean way, but it was a bunch of guys who had dealt with TT over the years, and boy...they don't like him. None of them think the guy is untalented, quite the opposite in fact. But they all agree he is a liar and a stooge, and that putting TT over to the people in charge was far more important than actually doing his job, even LONG after he was retired. Um....well when I met him he seemed okay with us? (then again, how you are with fans <> how you are with the boys or other people. I know many wrestlers with skeletons in their closets who were perfectly civil, even nice, at meet and greets) As for the OP about Taylor....I will definitely say it ruined his career, on camera at least. No matter what the WWF AND WCW did to repackage him, it never caught on and he still got Rooster chants and such.
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Post by jason1980s on Dec 27, 2021 11:11:25 GMT -5
I hated them. Their act wasn't even "so bad it's good", it was more like fast forward button bad. When I think of them, I always think of a match from one of the early 90's Rumbles. I believe it was against the Beverly Brothers where they just spent about 5 minutes stomping around the ring and playing for the crowd while the referee tried to get them to stop and wrestle. They just pissed me off. I got the Royal Rumble 92 on PPV and Bushwhackers got the fans to do a chant which, even at 7 years old and to this day I have no idea what the chant was. I was actually a Bushwhackers fan and don't recall them ever doing this chant before or after. All I could make out is that it sounded like some kind of foreign language. What's strange is that the fans chanted it right back to them.
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Post by Citizen Snips on Dec 27, 2021 12:38:14 GMT -5
Eric Bischoff was a booker for AWA in its dying days and came up with the Team Challenge Series. It took Bischoff's book to kill that narrative. I remember RD Reynolds pushing this narrative hard that Bischoff was the guy that single-handedly killed the AWA with the Team Challenge series. Bischoff also had to debunk this rumor on the WWE’s AWA DVD, when Greg Gagne admitted that he came up with the idea for the Team Challenge Series. We could have an entire off-shoot “False RD Reynolds Narratives” thread. Around the time The Death of WCW was published, his word was basically gospel on the Internet and his word was incredibly biased.
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Post by WoodStoner1 on Dec 27, 2021 14:14:06 GMT -5
I remember RD Reynolds pushing this narrative hard that Bischoff was the guy that single-handedly killed the AWA with the Team Challenge series. Bischoff also had to debunk this rumor on the WWE’s AWA DVD, when Greg Gagne admitted that he came up with the idea for the Team Challenge Series. We could have an entire off-shoot “False RD Reynolds Narratives” thread. Around the time The Death of WCW was published, his word was basically gospel on the Internet and his word was incredibly biased. On a sidenote, the turkey on a pole was not the last AWA show ever.
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petef3
Don Corleone
Posts: 1,783
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Post by petef3 on Dec 27, 2021 14:17:54 GMT -5
Most RD Reynolds Narratives are in fact Scott Keith Narratives re-purposed.
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Fundertaker
Vegeta
Hideo Kojima should direct every ending ever!
Posts: 9,006
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Post by Fundertaker on Dec 27, 2021 14:29:35 GMT -5
Most RD Reynolds Narratives are in fact Scott Keith Narratives re-purposed. Well, in that case, no, being Canadian doesn't make you automatically a great wrestler ![:P](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/tongue.png)
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Post by ThankGodForSidJustice on Dec 27, 2021 18:04:13 GMT -5
I'm always surprised WCW and WWF kept hiring Terry back. I was shocked when I looked at the NXT staffing and saw his picture. He left WWF in 1990, left WCW in 1992, left WWF in mid 1993 and was back with WWF in 1999 and wasn't there long at all. And I think he left WWF once before after WCW closed. Whenever I think of the Red Rooster the thing that comes to mind immediately is him taking his good old time coming to the ring at Survivor Series 1989 and Tito waving his arm/hand furiously to motion for him to get to the ring. You forgot him going back to WCW again in late 93. He actually stayed there a while during that run I think. I believe at least through 97. Dude somehow always finds work. Which is strange because with how many times both WWF and WCW got rid of him it doesn't make sense that they would keep bringing him in that if they kept getting rid of him it would make you think they didn't think much of him. Also as far as that Survivor Series 1989 entrance I think that was Tito's fault more then Rooster. They come down to Beefcake's music and Brutus is leading the way down but Tito is like right behind him which is strange in that they weren't a tag team or anything. In those early Survivor Series when they would have a whole team or most of a team come out to one guys entrance song unless they were a tag team they would distance themselves where one guy would come out then the next would be about ten steps behind. So I think in that case it was more Tito came out too soon and wasn't spaced enough away from Beefcake then Rooster being late.
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Post by Alice Syndrome on Dec 28, 2021 15:14:25 GMT -5
Also, on top of this, which is huge, Luke will tell you straight up: because of this, they got to be on network TV more than once in non-wrestling show shows, go to the White House, do tons of charity work, and make enough money in their run to set them for life and still be recognizable to more casual fans. It's really hard to argue that giving up 20 years of grueling, intense, and violent matches for a fan-oriented style where everyone loves you, makes you tons of money, and makes you recognizable to people that haven't watched wrestling in *years* 30 years later is a bad trade. Mike Bucci said the same thing about his time as Simon Dean. If I'd get paid doing comedy skits instead of ECW-style matches, give me the clown nose now! Yeah. Like, modern example: Heath Slater. Apart from that one tag title run, after the Nexus flamed out he basically got paid decent money to stare at the lights for 10 years while occasionally clowning around with a celebrity or a legend.
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petef3
Don Corleone
Posts: 1,783
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Post by petef3 on Dec 28, 2021 15:31:22 GMT -5
Again, there are aesthetic considerations that we, the consumers, are allowed to consider that wrestlers may not. Luke, Butch, Heath, and Bucci's financial successes have no bearing on us. Both are allowed to be correct.
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petef3
Don Corleone
Posts: 1,783
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Post by petef3 on Dec 28, 2021 18:30:00 GMT -5
Another more minor one: I've never been able to find any substantive evidence that any territorial wrestling promotion ever tried to tie the NWA World Title back to Abraham Lincoln. The "official" literature had it going back to Frank Gotch in 1906, and no further that I can see.
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Post by Andee9001 on Dec 28, 2021 18:56:39 GMT -5
Not sure how much of an IWC narrative this is but i always got the impression that Tony Schiavone was always an awful commentator based on the "butts in seats" comment and how the WWE painted him because of it as well what was written about him online.
I never got to watch WCW so my first real viewings came from the Best of Nitro and other WCW dvd collections and i realised Tony was very good. Of course during the dieing years of WCW i'm sure he lost a lot of motivation but i was under the impression that he was always awful.
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Jonathan Michaels
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
The Archduke of Levity
Here since TNA was still kinda okay
Posts: 18,322
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Post by Jonathan Michaels on Dec 28, 2021 19:12:58 GMT -5
I made a similar thread a while back and I had the exact same first example of the Goldberg Wig Incident.
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Post by Jedi-El of Tomorrow on Dec 29, 2021 2:40:00 GMT -5
Not sure how much of an IWC narrative this is but i always got the impression that Tony Schiavone was always an awful commentator based on the "butts in seats" comment and how the WWE painted him because of it as well what was written about him online. I never got to watch WCW so my first real viewings came from the Best of Nitro and other WCW dvd collections and i realised Tony was very good. Of course during the dieing years of WCW i'm sure he lost a lot of motivation but i was under the impression that he was always awful. Yeah, it was the final years of WCW where the Tony was bad narrative came from. And if you're going by only those years, it wasn't a false narrative. A toxic backstage environment, the same shit every week, and Tony just going through the motions at best because of it. Same could be said for Heenan. They were still good in the middle of 1998, but everything really went to shit in 1999.
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Post by TOK Is the Target Demo on Dec 29, 2021 3:19:14 GMT -5
Vince caters to himself and only himself. I really don’t think he feels that way. He’s just looking for guys who fit into his style that was so successful and the most mainstream. He’s lost sight how to do that properly BUT I don’t think he only makes moves based on his own entertainment. Shit, I think that Vince books against his own personal preferences to a fault at times. He's on record as saying that he's more of a fan of the workrate guys and that Dave Finley is his favorite wrestler, but for some reason people think that Vince's business is what he actually likes. He kept pushing Bret out of the ME even though he was the only consistent house draw, he made Jericho look like a punk as champ every single time, he booked Benoit like shit after he Canadian house show loop in Spring 2004, he always made sure that Daniel Bryan was surrounded by name talent even if it was clear Bryan was the main draw...
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