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Post by "Sweet & Sour" ImSoFudginGreat on Jan 8, 2022 21:26:05 GMT -5
Seeing a bit of discourse in the live threads about the refereeing and the enforcement of rules in AEW. I just posted in the live thread but I thought I’d expand here and see what other people think.
For me, I see it as AEW have taken a lot of inspiration from NJPW and other Japanese companies when it comes to refereeing. You will often see chair shots, table spots, and long periods of time on the outside and the referee will spend a fair bit of time trying to get the competitors back in the ring. After a little while. The ref will return to the ring and start a count. If a big illegal spot happens on the outside, more often than not the ref won’t count a pinfall inside a ring because of how they got to the situation. I have read and heard that referee’s treat the rules this way as they know fans want definitive winners and losers. I’m no statistician but it’d be interesting to see the amount of DQ’s in the biggest Japanese companies, as for the ones I watch (NJPW, Stardom, TJPW, and a little bit of DDT and NOAH) I don’t see too many at all.
Does anybody else feel this is an adequate explanation of what I think the rules are?
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06vwgti
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Post by 06vwgti on Jan 8, 2022 21:45:35 GMT -5
Might as well use the 20 count like NJPW does
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2022 21:52:26 GMT -5
Yeah, AEW is heavily NJPW-inspired in nearly every way. A lot of criticism it draws seems to be from people who are either unfamiliar with or dislike the Japanese style. The number of factions is another area where that pops up, too.
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markymark
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Post by markymark on Jan 8, 2022 21:52:48 GMT -5
You rarely see DQs in Lucha Libre AAA as well.
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Jan 8, 2022 21:55:57 GMT -5
Yeah, AEW is heavily NJPW-inspired in nearly every way. A lot of criticism it draws seems to be from people who are either unfamiliar with or dislike the Japanese style. The number of factions is another area where that pops up, too. Copying the EVIL/Dick Togo model should not be the way to go lol
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Post by "Evil Brood" Jackson Vanik on Jan 8, 2022 21:56:54 GMT -5
I mean, I feel like every company has logical holes because the rules in wrestling make no sense. In AEW, you can pull your friend out of the ring with zero consequences. In New Japan, you can do whatever you want basically. In AAA, the refs are heels. In WWE, it's really inconsistent. You can put someone throw a table on one show and the next you get DQed for throwing a piece of cardboard at someone. One match they enforce the tag rope, the next match, they don't.The thing I value most is consistency. If I know what to expect (even if it's not always logical), I can follow it.
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Post by One-Armed Drummer of Defrebel on Jan 8, 2022 21:57:35 GMT -5
Yeah, AEW is heavily NJPW-inspired in nearly every way. A lot of criticism it draws seems to be from people who are either unfamiliar with or dislike the Japanese style. The number of factions is another area where that pops up, too. Copying the EVIL/Dick Togo model should not be the way to go lol One of the last things I saw last night before I fell asleep was SHO winning his match with a wrench shot to a crowd reaction of like "okay sweet dude" and I knew right then I loved the HOT.
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chrom
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Post by chrom on Jan 8, 2022 21:57:51 GMT -5
Yeah, AEW is heavily NJPW-inspired in nearly every way. A lot of criticism it draws seems to be from people who are either unfamiliar with or dislike the Japanese style. The number of factions is another area where that pops up, too. Copying the EVIL/Dick Togo model should not be the way to go lol That's flat out killed New Japan shows making their matches whenever they show up a glorified bathroom break, that booking is the opposite you should strive to do
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Post by Lizuka #BLM on Jan 8, 2022 22:00:54 GMT -5
I do feel like by now AEW's firmly established what tropes are common to it and both the referees and all the faces being dumber than a sack of rocks is certainly one of the worst of them.
I feel like in general AEW really needs to find a way to get heat on heels that isn't, "They cheat endlessly," or, "They do a postmatch beatdown," because those are the two things they continually fall back on over and over and over and over and over, like multiple times on every single show.
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asuka007
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Post by asuka007 on Jan 8, 2022 22:04:47 GMT -5
I’m getting increasingly annoyed with how AEW does interference spots and post match beatings in general. Like it’s not just that they do it in way too many matches. But it is suffocating. Either it’s so blatant, there’s so many people interfering, or there’s so many times they interfere, or some unholy combination of those.
It makes the faces look dumb for not being prepared, it makes the referees look dumb for letting it go so much, it makes AEW staff at ringside look inept for not being able to stop it. And it makes AEW managements/Tony Khan in story look incompetent for just letting it go on and on with no consequences.
It reminds me of how absurd WCW got with this sort of thing after awhile and I hated that as well.
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Post by Cyno on Jan 8, 2022 22:05:40 GMT -5
I’m getting increasingly annoyed with how AEW does interference spots and post match beatings in general. Like it’s not just that they do it in way too many matches. But it is suffocating. Either it’s so blatant, there’s so many people interfering, or there’s so many times they interfere, or some unholy combination of those. It makes the faces look dumb for not being prepared, it makes the referees look dumb for letting it go so much, it makes AEW staff at ringside look inept for not being able to stop it. And it makes AEW managements/Tony Khan in story look incompetent for just letting it go on and on with no consequences. It reminds me of how absurd WCW got with this sort of thing after awhile and I hated that as well. You don't have to copy/paste the same post across multiple threads.
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asuka007
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Post by asuka007 on Jan 8, 2022 22:11:10 GMT -5
Who cares? The point is the same and I don’t want to waste time re typing it again.
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Post by Cyno on Jan 8, 2022 22:13:13 GMT -5
Because repeating the same points over and over again is stale and pointless.
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petef3
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Post by petef3 on Jan 8, 2022 22:20:37 GMT -5
I don't know if there's any putting of this toothpaste back in the tube at this point, but AEW's complete aversion to DQs is biting them. The constant interference from Baker's goons is more tiresome than usual because we know there are never any consequences. Oh, occasionally you'll get somebody ejected from ringside after they've already interfered 3 times, like we got tonight, but there's no tension because there's no possibility that Baker will suffer anything if she gets caught. And no, I don't particularly care for New Japan's lack of enforcement of the rules, either.
It all sounds cool to emulate '90s All-Japan and go with all decisive finishes, but '90s All-Japan didn't have interference or cheating at all, so it worked. If you decide you want all decisive finishes *and* standard wrasslin' cheating bullsh*t, you're going to run into conflict. At some point "wanting a decisive winner" from the referee and babyface's viewpoint just makes them look impotent and stupid instead of sportsmanlike, and the winner doesn't seem "decisive" at all. Sometimes a disqualification IS the decisive finish, because that's what the person being disqualified has earned.
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markymark
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Post by markymark on Jan 8, 2022 23:32:27 GMT -5
I don't know if there's any putting of this toothpaste back in the tube at this point, but AEW's complete aversion to DQs is biting them. The constant interference from Baker's goons is more tiresome than usual because we know there are never any consequences. Oh, occasionally you'll get somebody ejected from ringside after they've already interfered 3 times, like we got tonight, but there's no tension because there's no possibility that Baker will suffer anything if she gets caught. And no, I don't particularly care for New Japan's lack of enforcement of the rules, either. It all sounds cool to emulate '90s All-Japan and go with all decisive finishes, but '90s All-Japan didn't have interference or cheating at all, so it worked. If you decide you want all decisive finishes *and* standard wrasslin' cheating bullsh*t, you're going to run into conflict. At some point "wanting a decisive winner" from the referee and babyface's viewpoint just makes them look impotent and stupid instead of sportsmanlike, and the winner doesn't seem "decisive" at all. Sometimes a disqualification IS the decisive finish, because that's what the person being disqualified has earned.
They could use more draws if there is the need to protect both talents as long as they overuse them like Stardom.
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Dub H
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Post by Dub H on Jan 8, 2022 23:35:33 GMT -5
I don't know if there's any putting of this toothpaste back in the tube at this point, but AEW's complete aversion to DQs is biting them. The constant interference from Baker's goons is more tiresome than usual because we know there are never any consequences. Oh, occasionally you'll get somebody ejected from ringside after they've already interfered 3 times, like we got tonight, but there's no tension because there's no possibility that Baker will suffer anything if she gets caught. And no, I don't particularly care for New Japan's lack of enforcement of the rules, either. It all sounds cool to emulate '90s All-Japan and go with all decisive finishes, but '90s All-Japan didn't have interference or cheating at all, so it worked. If you decide you want all decisive finishes *and* standard wrasslin' cheating bullsh*t, you're going to run into conflict. At some point "wanting a decisive winner" from the referee and babyface's viewpoint just makes them look impotent and stupid instead of sportsmanlike, and the winner doesn't seem "decisive" at all. Sometimes a disqualification IS the decisive finish, because that's what the person being disqualified has earned. They could use more draws if there is the need to protect both talents as long as they overuse them like Stardom.
Well just the last couple or 3 months we had 2 Draws which were done very well
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Post by "Evil Brood" Jackson Vanik on Jan 8, 2022 23:36:47 GMT -5
I still prefer this to using DQs more liberally. I've seen how it's done for years in WWE and TNA and WCW. I hate it.
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Post by Cyno on Jan 8, 2022 23:40:34 GMT -5
I'd just be happy with refs and faces that didn't look like complete idiots. Make the heels have to work for their cheating.
I don't care that DQ's only happen once in a blue moon because DQ's are just as lazy a booking trope as the lawful stupid faces and blind referees. I just want to see logical consequences.
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Post by EoE: Well There's Your Problem on Jan 8, 2022 23:44:37 GMT -5
Isn't the whole meaning of a decisive winner meant to be "There is no question that the better athlete in this match won it"? Like, if there's interference or other outside factors that still leads to a pinfall/submission, is that really a decisive winner or just a decisive finish?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2022 23:48:41 GMT -5
I said it in a previous thread and I'll say it here: non-finishes always suck, without fail. Do the refs in AEW look like idiots a lot of the time because of their seeming staunch refusal to disqualify a competitor who is blatantly cheating? Yes. But I'll still take that 100 times out of 100 over a DQ finish (or a countout). There is nothing more deflating than a DQ finish at the end of a 10+ minute match - it inevitably makes the match feel like a total waste of time.
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