petef3
Don Corleone
Posts: 1,783
|
Post by petef3 on Jan 8, 2022 23:51:08 GMT -5
I'd just be happy with refs and faces that didn't look like complete idiots. Make the heels have to work for their cheating.
I don't care that DQ's only happen once in a blue moon because DQ's are just as lazy a booking trope as the lawful stupid faces and blind referees. I just want to see logical consequences.
If they're done right, then they're actually the opposite of lazy, if you actually have to account for them and book around them. Seems way more lazy to me to just ignore them because they're inconvenient.
|
|
petef3
Don Corleone
Posts: 1,783
|
Post by petef3 on Jan 8, 2022 23:53:47 GMT -5
I said it in a previous thread and I'll say it here: non-finishes always suck, without fail. Do the refs in AEW look like idiots a lot of the time because of their seeming staunch refusal to disqualify a competitor who is blatantly cheating? Yes. But I'll still take that 100 times out of 100 over a DQ finish (or a countout). There is nothing more deflating than a DQ finish at the end of a 10+ minute match - it inevitably makes the match feel like a total waste of time. Only a Sith deals in absolutes. Any finish can be done well, or done poorly. A well-done DQ has you salivating to see a rematch--maybe one with a stipulation or gimmick attached to it to ensure a decisive winner. There's something to be said for being left wanting more, something that 3-hour Raws and rematches that are like "What if it was like the last match, but more?" have almost turned into a foreign concept.
|
|
petef3
Don Corleone
Posts: 1,783
|
Post by petef3 on Jan 8, 2022 23:55:49 GMT -5
And again, it has to be emphasized: if you want to run all "clean" finishes like you're '90s All-Japan or the shootstyle promotions, then you can't eat your cake and have it, too by filling the match with gaga and interference. If you want clean, then book the match clean! A cheap screwjob finish isn't really any better than a DQ just because it ends with a 3-count.
|
|
|
Post by Cyno on Jan 8, 2022 23:56:48 GMT -5
I'd just be happy with refs and faces that didn't look like complete idiots. Make the heels have to work for their cheating.
I don't care that DQ's only happen once in a blue moon because DQ's are just as lazy a booking trope as the lawful stupid faces and blind referees. I just want to see logical consequences.
If they're done right, then they're actually the opposite of lazy, if you actually have to account for them and book around them. Seems way more lazy to me to just ignore them because they're inconvenient. And that's the thing that makes them a lazy booking trope. I can't even remember the last time a DQ finish was done right. Not from WWE, TNA, ROH, ECW, or WCW anyway.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2022 23:57:16 GMT -5
I'd just be happy with refs and faces that didn't look like complete idiots. Make the heels have to work for their cheating.
I don't care that DQ's only happen once in a blue moon because DQ's are just as lazy a booking trope as the lawful stupid faces and blind referees. I just want to see logical consequences.
This. In my wrestling I want the ref to be the smartest person out there. The only people I want outsmarting a ref should be a super smart heel (MJF), a super smart babyface who's always using his intelligence to outsmart his opponents or an underdog babyface who somehow gets lucky. Like, a ref shouldn't be outsmarted in every single program. I really want my refs not taking bullshit.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2022 23:58:26 GMT -5
Only a Sith deals in absolutes. Any finish can be done well, or done poorly. A well-done DQ has you salivating to see a rematch--maybe one with a stipulation or gimmick attached to it to ensure a decisive winner. There's something to be said for being left wanting more, something that 3-hour Raws and rematches that are like "What if it was like the last match, but more?" have almost turned into a foreign concept. Okay, I will amend my statement slightly: in my 23 years watching wrestling I have never been satisfied by a DQ finish. They do not leave me wanting more, they leave me feeling like I wasted 10-20 minutes (if not longer) of my life.
|
|
petef3
Don Corleone
Posts: 1,783
|
Post by petef3 on Jan 8, 2022 23:59:10 GMT -5
If they're done right, then they're actually the opposite of lazy, if you actually have to account for them and book around them. Seems way more lazy to me to just ignore them because they're inconvenient. And that's the thing that makes them a lazy booking trope. I can't even remember the last time a DQ finish was done right. Not from WWE, TNA, ROH, ECW, or WCW anyway. Newly heel Shinsuke Nakamura ruining the AJ Styles-Daniel Bryan title match on Smackdown comes to mind. It's not as uncommon as you think. "OMG DQ TAKE *** OFF THE RATING" is a very '90s smark mindset and frankly should be considered an outdated one.
|
|
petef3
Don Corleone
Posts: 1,783
|
Post by petef3 on Jan 9, 2022 0:01:05 GMT -5
Only a Sith deals in absolutes. Any finish can be done well, or done poorly. A well-done DQ has you salivating to see a rematch--maybe one with a stipulation or gimmick attached to it to ensure a decisive winner. There's something to be said for being left wanting more, something that 3-hour Raws and rematches that are like "What if it was like the last match, but more?" have almost turned into a foreign concept. Okay, I will amend my statement slightly: in my 23 years watching wrestling I have never been satisfied by a DQ finish. They do not leave me wanting more, they leave me feeling like I wasted 10-20 minutes (if not longer) of my life. There are plenty of 3-count finishes that have me feeling the same way. Like that stupid Matt Hardy-Orange Cassidy lumberjack clusterf*** or the last 379 distraction roll-ups in WWE. DQ finishes can be good, and 3-count/submission finishes can be terrible.
|
|
|
Post by Cyno on Jan 9, 2022 0:14:17 GMT -5
And that's the thing that makes them a lazy booking trope. I can't even remember the last time a DQ finish was done right. Not from WWE, TNA, ROH, ECW, or WCW anyway. Newly heel Shinsuke Nakamura ruining the AJ Styles-Daniel Bryan title match on Smackdown comes to mind. It's not as uncommon as you think. "OMG DQ TAKE *** OFF THE RATING" is a very '90s smark mindset and frankly should be considered an outdated one. I didn't think that was done right either. But then I think we have such different views on what makes wrestling enjoyable that I'll agree to disagree and leave it at that.
|
|
Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
FANatic
Writer, Lover of all things Wrestling. Analytical, Critical, Lovable (hopefully). Lets all have fun!
Posts: 234,969
Member is Online
|
Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Jan 9, 2022 0:20:27 GMT -5
It just doesn't bother me, like at all
I will take the refs being lenient and or stupid every single time if I never have to see kicking too much ass DQs or shitty non finishes that never lead to anything substancial or had no point to ever doing them.
I've seen so many good matches ruined by last second DQs, that I just really prefer this style. Maybe that'll change, but it hasn't in two years...
|
|
petef3
Don Corleone
Posts: 1,783
|
Post by petef3 on Jan 9, 2022 0:31:34 GMT -5
It just doesn't bother me, like at all I will take the refs being lenient and or stupid every single time if I never have to see kicking too much ass DQs or shitty non finishes that never lead to anything substancial or had no point to ever doing them. I've seen so many good matches ruined by last second DQs, that I just really prefer this style. Maybe that'll change, but it hasn't in two years... You're sort of throwing out the baby with the bathwater here. No one is advocating for random DQs (except maybe a few just to establish that the rules matter and what the rules are). Any finish is a bad finish if it doesn't lead to anything substantial and has no point--that's not exclusive to DQs. If Page lost his title on the next Dynamite in a 9-minute match to The Blade and just settled into a mid-card role trading wins and losses with the rest of the Hardy Family Office, would that be better just because he lost "clean"?
|
|
Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
FANatic
Writer, Lover of all things Wrestling. Analytical, Critical, Lovable (hopefully). Lets all have fun!
Posts: 234,969
Member is Online
|
Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Jan 9, 2022 0:39:39 GMT -5
It just doesn't bother me, like at all I will take the refs being lenient and or stupid every single time if I never have to see kicking too much ass DQs or shitty non finishes that never lead to anything substancial or had no point to ever doing them. I've seen so many good matches ruined by last second DQs, that I just really prefer this style. Maybe that'll change, but it hasn't in two years... You're sort of throwing out the baby with the bathwater here. No one is advocating for random DQs (except maybe a few just to establish that the rules matter and what the rules are). Any finish is a bad finish if it doesn't lead to anything substantial and has no point--that's not exclusive to DQs. If Page lost his title on the next Dynamite in a 9-minute match to The Blade and just settled into a mid-card role trading wins and losses with the rest of the Hardy Family Office, would that be better just because he lost "clean"? I really don't get what you're trying to say here. I said it doesn't bother me, and it doesn't really take away from many matches in my eyes if there aren't DQs as to me, finishes usually make sense and come through in a logical sense if interference happens leading to a pinfall I get any finish can be a bad finish... I haven't thought many finishes in AEW have been bad if the refs have been lenient and not thrown out a DQ when some have called for it. Just my view.
|
|
petef3
Don Corleone
Posts: 1,783
|
Post by petef3 on Jan 9, 2022 0:41:04 GMT -5
There really is no logical sense to Hayter and Rebel constantly being allowed to be at ringside, though. It only makes all of Britt's babyface opponents and AEW itself look dumb for continuing to put up with it.
|
|
Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
FANatic
Writer, Lover of all things Wrestling. Analytical, Critical, Lovable (hopefully). Lets all have fun!
Posts: 234,969
Member is Online
|
Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Jan 9, 2022 0:46:29 GMT -5
There really is no logical sense to Hayter and Rebel constantly being allowed to be at ringside, though. It only makes all of Britt's babyface opponents and AEW itself look dumb for continuing to put up with it. The logic is they're eventually just gonna blow up on one another, but heel factions just hang around the ring more often here than face allies, unless youre in a team or a faction. I take it as faces wanting to win on their own. To Riho's credit their outside interference basically failed in every way tonight, Britt had to win straight up. I have a feeling this whole circus of theirs is gonna come to a head soon.
|
|
petef3
Don Corleone
Posts: 1,783
|
Post by petef3 on Jan 9, 2022 0:52:40 GMT -5
"Wanting to win on their own" is admirable. Not accounting for people who are GOING to interfere and do it in literally every match is not admirable, it's stupid.
|
|
|
Post by Lizuka #BLM on Jan 9, 2022 0:53:08 GMT -5
I do think DQs should be somewhat more common, but I'd rather they stop putting themselves into positions where you're constantly asking why there isn't a DQ than I would them actually have more DQs.
|
|
|
Post by polarbearpete on Jan 9, 2022 0:55:45 GMT -5
It just doesn't bother me, like at all I will take the refs being lenient and or stupid every single time if I never have to see kicking too much ass DQs or shitty non finishes that never lead to anything substancial or had no point to ever doing them. I've seen so many good matches ruined by last second DQs, that I just really prefer this style. Maybe that'll change, but it hasn't in two years... You’re talking about two different ends of the spectrum when there can be a happy medium. You can either do sparing, smart, storyline-driven DQs, or just not put the refs in position during the match where they should be disqualifying people. Both better options than your two extremes.
|
|
|
Post by jimmyjackezekiel on Jan 9, 2022 1:01:25 GMT -5
In ECW did submission rope breaks ever happen? I mean logically if there are no DQs you can just keep the hold on even if they do get to the ropes and the ref can't DQ you. What are they gonna do? Not count the submission and let the other wrestler suffer?
|
|
Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
FANatic
Writer, Lover of all things Wrestling. Analytical, Critical, Lovable (hopefully). Lets all have fun!
Posts: 234,969
Member is Online
|
Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Jan 9, 2022 1:06:32 GMT -5
It just doesn't bother me, like at all I will take the refs being lenient and or stupid every single time if I never have to see kicking too much ass DQs or shitty non finishes that never lead to anything substancial or had no point to ever doing them. I've seen so many good matches ruined by last second DQs, that I just really prefer this style. Maybe that'll change, but it hasn't in two years... You’re talking about two different ends of the spectrum when there can be a happy medium. You can either do sparing, smart, storyline-driven DQs, or just not put the refs in position during the match where they should be disqualifying people. Both better options than your two extremes. If AEW finds it, by all means, I'm sure it would help people out who have an issue I literally just said it didn't personally bother me, I wasn't putting down people who might have an issue.
|
|
|
Post by "Evil Brood" Jackson Vanik on Jan 9, 2022 1:07:16 GMT -5
I've always been of the belief that wrestling rules just suck in general. Like in wrestling, you're legally allowed to choke your opponent. The only limitation is you can only do so in four second intervals. There's nothing really stopping you from eye rakes since every ref in the world will just sternly talk to you. There's no reason not to put your foot on the ropes every chance you can get because there's no consequence if you get caught. You're totally allowed to bring a barbwire bat into the ring as long as you don't use it. If we're going to fix reffing, I feel like the whole system needs to be rethought.
|
|