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Post by EP 54 is banned from Collision on Jan 13, 2022 12:38:06 GMT -5
Not really, it's pretty subjective shit. Wrestling is art. Everything's subjective, well at least 95% of the stuff we discuss on this board is, anyway.
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Post by Bang Bang Bart on Jan 13, 2022 12:49:51 GMT -5
Also conveniently babyface friends never come out to help when other faces are having matches against Britt. So AEW kind of tries to have it both ways. The issue for me is that you cannot go one show basically without multiple post match brawls, or run ins from MULTIPLE factions. It’s too much. As for the Best Friends, they got laid out by the HFO to end that feud. And this one has been going for a quite awhile. I’m tired of the beat downs, they look like idiots at this point. At least when someone like Jon Moxley gets beaten down and nobody helps him, it makes sense because he’s a loner with only Eddie Kingston and Darby Allin as his allies.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2022 13:17:11 GMT -5
I understand why people dislike it, but I actually like it. If we are supposed to suspend our disbelief and treat everything we're seeing as "real," then it wouldn't make any sense for people's friends to just sit idly by while they get assaulted after a match. I'm very partial to the NJPW-style faction based booking that AEW is running, though. Where it causes problems is when it's internally inconsistent. The refs constantly turning a blind eye to everything is legitimately frustrating when the company places such an emphasis on everything being believable and "sportslike." I’ve never understood AEW being “believable” when they’ve got Young Bucks matches and kayfabe killer Orange Cassidy on the show. I vehemently disagree with the notion that "Young Bucks matches", generally, are any more or less believable than any other modern tag team matches. But, I respect other peoples' opinions on that point, so long as they don't act like it's some unassailable fact that the Bucks have no ring psychology and their matches are glorified gymnastics. That shit annoys me. With Cassidy, I'm convinced that people who have this take haven't ever actually watched his matches. His whole lazy schtick is mind games, and he always kicks it into high gear when the situation calls for it. People always act like the pockets and the slow motion kicks actually injure his opponents when they very clearly don't.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2022 13:18:03 GMT -5
I understand why people dislike it, but I actually like it. If we are supposed to suspend our disbelief and treat everything we're seeing as "real," then it wouldn't make any sense for people's friends to just sit idly by while they get assaulted after a match. I'm very partial to the NJPW-style faction based booking that AEW is running, though. Where it causes problems is when it's internally inconsistent. The refs constantly turning a blind eye to everything is legitimately frustrating when the company places such an emphasis on everything being believable and "sportslike." The refs being blind as hell is probably the most believably sportslike part of the presentation. Fair enough. AEW should bring in some of the old ACC basketball refs, like Jamie Lucky and Karl Hess for realism's sake.
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Post by Cyno on Jan 13, 2022 13:22:08 GMT -5
The refs being blind as hell is probably the most believably sportslike part of the presentation. Fair enough. AEW should bring in some of the old ACC basketball refs, like Jamie Lucky and Karl Hess for realism's sake. Ed Malloy from the NBA is the best example I can think of.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2022 13:27:40 GMT -5
Yeah the most run-ins I see the more it's reminding me of WWE. That's one thing that sort of helped differentiate AEW from them, the lack of run-ins or wacky finishes. Even silly stuff like in that Wardlow/Punk match (although the match was good, I'm speaking on the number of "ok A is better than B, clear cut no issues" type of situations), it's just getting more into "wacky wrasslin territory" rather than being mostly about the sport and grit of the product which is what AEW was promoting itself on from the jump.
Hope they really tone that shit down. Keep run-ins low so when it happens it's more surprising rather it being a "eh, here we go again" situation.
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Nr1Humanoid
Hank Scorpio
Is the #3 humanoid at best.
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Post by Nr1Humanoid on Jan 13, 2022 14:33:22 GMT -5
How many times now has it been that Best Friends have been beaten down and made to look like doofuses? It is like the world's worst MO.
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ronin705
Dennis Stamp
All Might
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Post by ronin705 on Jan 13, 2022 15:06:19 GMT -5
I had more a problem with the booking: Two giant dominant matches, where due to f***ery the Hoss loses. Back to back for God's sake.
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Post by Dave the Dave on Jan 13, 2022 17:48:44 GMT -5
Can Best Friends squash jobbers for a few months? I’d like to see a group I like succeed a little. I think they lost the Hardy feud right? Unless I’m forgetting a match. Now they’re mostly getting beat up by the Elite.
Thing is? They are outmatched by the Elite. So can we get to it?
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
FANatic
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Jan 13, 2022 18:05:15 GMT -5
I understand why people dislike it, but I actually like it. If we are supposed to suspend our disbelief and treat everything we're seeing as "real," then it wouldn't make any sense for people's friends to just sit idly by while they get assaulted after a match. I'm very partial to the NJPW-style faction based booking that AEW is running, though. Where it causes problems is when it's internally inconsistent. The refs constantly turning a blind eye to everything is legitimately frustrating when the company places such an emphasis on everything being believable and "sportslike." I’ve never understood AEW being “believable” when they’ve got Young Bucks matches and kayfabe killer Orange Cassidy on the show. Young Bucks matches are absolutely fine, and aren't any less crazy or standout than most modern matches with big spots these days, and this includes other companies, and even WWE being involved in the conversation. Literally nothing they do to me stands out as "Kayfabe kIlling" as much as it always has been them being over the top, which is the whole point As for the Cassidy quip? Some of ya'll really expose yourselves on here when you bring him into the conversation. Nothing he does is kayfabe killing. No one actually ever sells his kicks, and when he actually wrestles, he WRESTLES. The entire gimmick is mind games, this has been thoroughly shown to the audience over and over again. But some people would rather be content about the fact he puts his hands in his pockets and therefore he is "killing the business" or something, it's honestly more embarrassing than the presumption that Orange Cassidy is tbh.
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Post by Mid-Carder on Jan 13, 2022 18:42:00 GMT -5
I’ve never understood AEW being “believable” when they’ve got Young Bucks matches and kayfabe killer Orange Cassidy on the show. Young Bucks matches are absolutely fine, and aren't any less crazy or standout than most modern matches with big spots these days, and this includes other companies, and even WWE being involved in the conversation. Literally nothing they do to me stands out as "Kayfabe kIlling" as much as it always has been them being over the top, which is the whole point As for the Cassidy quip? Some of ya'll really expose yourselves on here when you bring him into the conversation. Nothing he does is kayfabe killing. No one actually ever sells his kicks, and when he actually wrestles, he WRESTLES. The entire gimmick is mind games, this has been thoroughly shown to the audience over and over again. But some people would rather be content about the fact he puts his hands in his pockets and therefore he is "killing the business" or something, it's honestly more embarrassing than the presumption that Orange Cassidy is tbh. People thinking his gimmick is embarrassing isn’t “exposing themselves” nor does it mean they don’t understand the gimmick. Your different interpretation isn’t the correct one just because it’s a positive one.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2022 18:49:46 GMT -5
Young Bucks matches are absolutely fine, and aren't any less crazy or standout than most modern matches with big spots these days, and this includes other companies, and even WWE being involved in the conversation. Literally nothing they do to me stands out as "Kayfabe kIlling" as much as it always has been them being over the top, which is the whole point As for the Cassidy quip? Some of ya'll really expose yourselves on here when you bring him into the conversation. Nothing he does is kayfabe killing. No one actually ever sells his kicks, and when he actually wrestles, he WRESTLES. The entire gimmick is mind games, this has been thoroughly shown to the audience over and over again. But some people would rather be content about the fact he puts his hands in his pockets and therefore he is "killing the business" or something, it's honestly more embarrassing than the presumption that Orange Cassidy is tbh. Please, tell us more about how wrestling works. People thinking his gimmick is embarrassing isn’t “exposing themselves” nor does it mean they don’t understand the gimmick. Your different interpretation isn’t the correct one just because it’s a positive one. To play middle ground though, it’s perfectly fine to find Orange’s slacker gimmick lame or embarrassing, but I think it’s pretty close to objectively true that it’s not “kayfabe killing.” He doesn’t have magical powers like a Kane or an Undertaker or anything. He’s just a guy who acts lazy to try and get in his opponents’ heads, but it’s not ever presented like his lazy or slo-mo moves actually hurt anyone. Just annoy them.
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
FANatic
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Jan 13, 2022 19:41:38 GMT -5
Young Bucks matches are absolutely fine, and aren't any less crazy or standout than most modern matches with big spots these days, and this includes other companies, and even WWE being involved in the conversation. Literally nothing they do to me stands out as "Kayfabe kIlling" as much as it always has been them being over the top, which is the whole point As for the Cassidy quip? Some of ya'll really expose yourselves on here when you bring him into the conversation. Nothing he does is kayfabe killing. No one actually ever sells his kicks, and when he actually wrestles, he WRESTLES. The entire gimmick is mind games, this has been thoroughly shown to the audience over and over again. But some people would rather be content about the fact he puts his hands in his pockets and therefore he is "killing the business" or something, it's honestly more embarrassing than the presumption that Orange Cassidy is tbh. People thinking his gimmick is embarrassing isn’t “exposing themselves” nor does it mean they don’t understand the gimmick. Your different interpretation isn’t the correct one just because it’s a positive one. I think it's fine to not like Cassidy if you don't like him, but the people who say he is a business/kayfabe killer or act like the stuff he does is sold like death, which is a common negative criticism I see of Cassidy which does come off like they don't even watch his matches, doesn't set right with me as someone who thinks the gimmick is done very well. And even if I didn't like him, some of the stuff presented as criticism of him isn't even true, it's just a peddled rhetoric to make him look worse. I feel like if you're going to hate Cassidy, it should be more constructive than "He puts his hands in his pockets and people sell his lazy kicks", the latter part isn't even true, and the first part is played well into the gimmick itself, in which he does spots that almost no one else I think could concievably do, because he has the talent to do it. Orange is a wrestler with a gimmick, nothing he does ventures out of the realm of disbelief, and never has imo.
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Post by lildude8218 on Jan 13, 2022 19:48:13 GMT -5
How many times now has it been that Best Friends have been beaten down and made to look like doofuses? To be fair, they ARE doofuses.
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Zone Was Wrong
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Currently living off the high that AEW brings every Wednesday and Friday
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Post by Zone Was Wrong on Jan 13, 2022 20:00:38 GMT -5
How many times now has it been that Best Friends have been beaten down and made to look like doofuses? To be fair, they ARE doofuses. That's kind of their thing. Up until they whoop someone's ass in an arcade match or a parking lot brawl. The fact they're so good at selling makes them perfect beat down candidates, especially since they can get their heat back pretty easily. Do agree they need to do a better job of spacing things out more. While everything made sense, it still comes off lazy with everything having a similar set up. Beat downs don't really bother me overall though, especially since they usually do a good job of letting the faces ultimately standing tall at the end of the feud. Unless your the Varsity Blondes and your lot in life is to get murdered constantly.
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petef3
Don Corleone
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Post by petef3 on Jan 13, 2022 20:33:11 GMT -5
Orange Cassidy's "mind games," as gamely as Taz tried to explain it, don't really hold up when two weeks in a row he went into his kick shtick when surrounded by 3 guys, only to get beaten down. Why is he wasting time playing "mind games" when he's down 1-on-3? Wouldn't it be cooler if the laid-back, sleepy-looking guy suddenly went off and just beat the **** out of 3 guys?
The way he was booked just made him look like an idiot who doesn't know how to do anything else besides his regular shtick.
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
FANatic
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Jan 13, 2022 20:42:38 GMT -5
Orange Cassidy's "mind games," as gamely as Taz tried to explain it, don't really hold up when two weeks in a row he went into his kick shtick when surrounded by 3 guys, only to get beaten down. Why is he wasting time playing "mind games" when he's down 1-on-3? Wouldn't it be cooler if the laid-back, sleepy-looking guy suddenly went off and just beat the **** out of 3 guys? The way he was booked just made him look like an idiot who doesn't know how to do anything else besides his regular shtick. When did this happen two weeks in a row? This week he didn't do any games, he literally just took Cole down and started wailing on him, there was no kick spot. I don't remember him trying the kick spot when he was outnumbered at all either. He did it to Cole and The Young Bucks snuck up on him and superkicked him from behind, unless this happened in the multi-man? In which case buying time and trying to fake out opponents is still valid, if you're outnumbered you gotta think of something if you're already in a losing battle.
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petef3
Don Corleone
Posts: 1,783
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Post by petef3 on Jan 13, 2022 20:50:25 GMT -5
Orange Cassidy's "mind games," as gamely as Taz tried to explain it, don't really hold up when two weeks in a row he went into his kick shtick when surrounded by 3 guys, only to get beaten down. Why is he wasting time playing "mind games" when he's down 1-on-3? Wouldn't it be cooler if the laid-back, sleepy-looking guy suddenly went off and just beat the **** out of 3 guys? The way he was booked just made him look like an idiot who doesn't know how to do anything else besides his regular shtick. When did this happen two weeks in a row? This week he didn't do any games, he literally just took Cole down and started wailing on him, there was no kick spot. I don't remember him trying the kick spot when he was outnumbered at all either. He did it to Cole and The Young Bucks snuck up on him and superkicked him from behind, unless this happened in the multi-man? In which case buying time and trying to fake out opponents is still valid, if you're outnumbered you gotta think of something if you're already in a losing battle. Yes, it happened on the interview set with Cole and the Young Bucks, and then again the next week I think during a match. Yes, he definitely did the kick spot when he was outnumbered. The Bucks were already out there with Cole, they didn't "sneak up" on anyone and even if they did, it's pretty much to the point where a babyface should be anticipating that anyway.
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Post by Ronny Rayguns Is All Elite on Jan 13, 2022 21:10:23 GMT -5
It's like they're trying to get as many people on/advance as many story lines as possible within 1-2 hours.
Which they SHOULD, however there's other ways they can do this to mix things up and avoid repetitiveness
I miss how back during the Superstars/Early days of RAW you would have matches where a short, pre-recorded promo would pop in the corner of the screen with whoever the guy in the ring was currently feuding with hyping their upcoming match
Or, they could just actually let the people being interviewed backstage FINISH their promos to get themselves/their feud over (Yea occasionally someone will get through them, but way too often someone runs in to attack them to the point it's no longer shocking)
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Post by Bang Bang Bart on Jan 13, 2022 21:22:10 GMT -5
The endpoint of this Elite/Paragon thing is the explosion, so whether or not that comes because they lose the feud to Best Friends or because Adam Cole fails to win the AEW World Title when he challenges for it, it's anyone's guess.
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