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Post by CeilingFan on Jan 28, 2022 2:21:09 GMT -5
We did get this classic review
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Post by Oh Cry Me a Screwball on Jan 28, 2022 2:31:31 GMT -5
Anyway, the backlash might’ve happened earlier than it did had he not had to take three months off for a hernia, but it definitely didn’t happen wholesale until that next Rumble. I've wondered about the hernia injury, but I feel him not being absent in the fall would have helped him way more than it hurts him. For one, they were starting to build towards Reigns vs. Rollins when he got taken off of TV, which probably would have led to Reigns vs. Rollins inside of Hell in a Cell instead of extending the Ambrose vs. Rollins feud. Ambrose was the beneficiary of this, because he got to have a killer match that Roman was supposed to have, and Roman's always performed well in gimmicky hardcore matches, even when the rest of his singles work was godawful. Then, we get to Survivor Series, and we all know Roman would have been the sole survivor for Team Cena instead of Ziggler. Not only does this give Roman more momentum heading into the Rumble, but the fact that Ziggler doesn't get elevated here means he is out of the conversation for a plausible Royal Rumble winner entirely, which means Roman has one less person ahead of him in the crowd's pecking order. Then there's other things to consider, like the possibility of Roman also main-eventing TLC instead of Ambrose, which is another gimmick match where he's booked to his strengths. He's also got a few extra months to experiment with promos, so instead of telling bedtime stories on the lead up to the Rumble, it could be happening during the build to Hell in a Cell, and is basically ancient history by the time the Rumble comes around. And he doesn't have to worry about shaking off ring rust or anything, so his TV matches are probably better. And the thing about all that time is that it's not in front of a Philly crowd with fly-in hardcore fans for a Big 4 PPV. If Roman ends up having great performances, and guys like Ziggler and Ambrose aren't actively benefiting from his absence, he might do okay in Philly. There's no way he topples Bryan on the tier list, but if Roman is going into the show with actual momentum that isn't Vince just telling everybody he is cool, they may feel confident enough that the Rumble can end with a Bryan vs. Roman showdown that everyone can enjoy instead of the misery booking of Local Men ruining everything.
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Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on Jan 28, 2022 3:13:10 GMT -5
A modern masterpiece of absolute shit. So funny to watch with hindsight.
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
FANatic
Writer, Lover of all things Wrestling. Analytical, Critical, Lovable (hopefully). Lets all have fun!
Posts: 235,512
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Jan 28, 2022 3:29:36 GMT -5
Friendly reminder, because of a massive snowstorm, WWE couldn't even hold a RAW after this, which probably saved Roman one less crowd flogging
But they proceeded to shoot themselves square in the ass twice by presenting the ENTIRE RUMBLE FOR FREE to viewers, so anyone who didn't see it, could see the f***ing shitshow for themselves, or people still stewing over it from the last 24 hours just got to relive every bad decision again unless they turned the damn channel
This Rumble is still something imo WWE are feeling the effects from, because they're still trying to make Roman their conquerer... the difference now is he's just a heel who has beaten everyone and made Smackdown a wasteland, instead of a forced face. ...Yay?
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The Foreigner™: OffSZN
ALF
They wanna talk? Well what they talkin bout? I see them runnin they mouth but they ain't talkin loud
Posts: 1,201
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Post by The Foreigner™: OffSZN on Jan 28, 2022 5:40:07 GMT -5
Anyway, the backlash might’ve happened earlier than it did had he not had to take three months off for a hernia, but it definitely didn’t happen wholesale until that next Rumble. I've wondered about the hernia injury, but I feel him not being absent in the fall would have helped him way more than it hurts him. For one, they were starting to build towards Reigns vs. Rollins when he got taken off of TV, which probably would have led to Reigns vs. Rollins inside of Hell in a Cell instead of extending the Ambrose vs. Rollins feud. Ambrose was the beneficiary of this, because he got to have a killer match that Roman was supposed to have, and Roman's always performed well in gimmicky hardcore matches, even when the rest of his singles work was godawful. Then, we get to Survivor Series, and we all know Roman would have been the sole survivor for Team Cena instead of Ziggler. Not only does this give Roman more momentum heading into the Rumble, but the fact that Ziggler doesn't get elevated here means he is out of the conversation for a plausible Royal Rumble winner entirely, which means Roman has one less person ahead of him in the crowd's pecking order. Then there's other things to consider, like the possibility of Roman also main-eventing TLC instead of Ambrose, which is another gimmick match where he's booked to his strengths. He's also got a few extra months to experiment with promos, so instead of telling bedtime stories on the lead up to the Rumble, it could be happening during the build to Hell in a Cell, and is basically ancient history by the time the Rumble comes around. And he doesn't have to worry about shaking off ring rust or anything, so his TV matches are probably better. And the thing about all that time is that it's not in front of a Philly crowd with fly-in hardcore fans for a Big 4 PPV. If Roman ends up having great performances, and guys like Ziggler and Ambrose aren't actively benefiting from his absence, he might do okay in Philly. There's no way he topples Bryan on the tier list, but if Roman is going into the show with actual momentum that isn't Vince just telling everybody he is cool, they may feel confident enough that the Rumble can end with a Bryan vs. Roman showdown that everyone can enjoy instead of the misery booking of Local Men ruining everything. The way the Night of Champions build went (Reigns randomly beating Rollins in a hastily made singles match on the go-home RAW), I was convinced Ambrose was slated to return and turn heel, setting up Reigns-Ambrose Hell in a Cell. Rollins would attempt to cash in on Cena/Lesnar as he did originally and feuds with Cena. Depending on how well WWE booked that Reigns-Ambrose feud, Roman's road to Wrestlemania could have been significantly better or even more disastrous in that universe.
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JoDaNa1281
Crow T. Robot
Jackie Daytona, Regular Human Bartender. #BLM
Posts: 40,357
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Post by JoDaNa1281 on Jan 28, 2022 19:34:00 GMT -5
Did you know 'Sin Cara' is Spanish for 'you're eliminated'? To which I respond... ...Adam Rose!...Adam Rose!...
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Post by Oh Cry Me a Screwball on Jan 28, 2022 19:42:05 GMT -5
I've wondered about the hernia injury, but I feel him not being absent in the fall would have helped him way more than it hurts him. For one, they were starting to build towards Reigns vs. Rollins when he got taken off of TV, which probably would have led to Reigns vs. Rollins inside of Hell in a Cell instead of extending the Ambrose vs. Rollins feud. Ambrose was the beneficiary of this, because he got to have a killer match that Roman was supposed to have, and Roman's always performed well in gimmicky hardcore matches, even when the rest of his singles work was godawful. Then, we get to Survivor Series, and we all know Roman would have been the sole survivor for Team Cena instead of Ziggler. Not only does this give Roman more momentum heading into the Rumble, but the fact that Ziggler doesn't get elevated here means he is out of the conversation for a plausible Royal Rumble winner entirely, which means Roman has one less person ahead of him in the crowd's pecking order. Then there's other things to consider, like the possibility of Roman also main-eventing TLC instead of Ambrose, which is another gimmick match where he's booked to his strengths. He's also got a few extra months to experiment with promos, so instead of telling bedtime stories on the lead up to the Rumble, it could be happening during the build to Hell in a Cell, and is basically ancient history by the time the Rumble comes around. And he doesn't have to worry about shaking off ring rust or anything, so his TV matches are probably better. And the thing about all that time is that it's not in front of a Philly crowd with fly-in hardcore fans for a Big 4 PPV. If Roman ends up having great performances, and guys like Ziggler and Ambrose aren't actively benefiting from his absence, he might do okay in Philly. There's no way he topples Bryan on the tier list, but if Roman is going into the show with actual momentum that isn't Vince just telling everybody he is cool, they may feel confident enough that the Rumble can end with a Bryan vs. Roman showdown that everyone can enjoy instead of the misery booking of Local Men ruining everything. The way the Night of Champions build went (Reigns randomly beating Rollins in a hastily made singles match on the go-home RAW), I was convinced Ambrose was slated to return and turn heel, setting up Reigns-Ambrose Hell in a Cell. Rollins would attempt to cash in on Cena/Lesnar as he did originally and feuds with Cena. Depending on how well WWE booked that Reigns-Ambrose feud, Roman's road to Wrestlemania could have been significantly better or even more disastrous in that universe. Yeah, it all depends on whether or not WWE treats the time from Night of Champions to the Royal Rumble as a massive sales pitch for Roman to the hardcore fans, or if it's even more time that Roman is delivering crappy promos like the bedtime story or sufferin' succotash. I do maintain that having Hell in a Cell and TLC main event matches would be a solid positive, as people really loved that Last Man Standing match he had with Big Show right after Mania in spite of how obnoxious it was that he kept getting up from every stock finish they do in LMS matches. Even at his worst, they knew how to book him in bells and whistles hardcore matches where Roman knew to play to his strengths as a performer.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2022 20:19:46 GMT -5
It's probably the first Rumble I remember watching where I was taken out of the storylines, out of the "WWE Universe" sphere, just the first Rumble that I recall seeing past the characters and any story they were telling and instead I just saw it as "booking" if that makes any sense. Never have I seen a Rumble where it felt like I couldn't be fully invested until that one. When I think of it I imagine Kane and Big Show dumping fan favorites out, I remember Ambrose being thrown out like a piece of trash, I remember the crowd booing, I remember Rusev being cheered but it didn't matter, hell then the Reigns stuff and even that Rock "he's the guy guys" thing they tried to pull. It was just wild to me to this day lol.
It's like the tagline needs to be "The Bad Booking Rumble" because that's all I remember it for.
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Post by eJm on Jan 28, 2022 20:43:04 GMT -5
It's probably the first Rumble I remember watching where I was taken out of the storylines, out of the "WWE Universe" sphere, just the first Rumble that I recall seeing past the characters and any story they were telling and instead I just saw it as "booking" if that makes any sense. Never have I seen a Rumble where it felt like I couldn't be fully invested until that one. When I think of it I imagine Kane and Big Show dumping fan favorites out, I remember Ambrose being thrown out like a piece of trash, I remember the crowd booing, I remember Rusev being cheered but it didn't matter, hell then the Reigns stuff and even that Rock "he's the guy guys" thing they tried to pull. It was just wild to me to this day lol. It's like the tagline needs to be "The Bad Booking Rumble" because that's all I remember it for. I completely get what you mean. Like, you can look at most matches or events and go “Ok, they did this because they’re setting up this and they want this for WrestleMania so they’re doing this” but looking through even the small parts of the Rumble, there was no reason for most of the match to happen. Show and Kane didn’t set up anything for ‘Mania, Ambrose, Bryan, Ziggler ended up in the ladder match for the IC, Wyatt was supposed to face The Undertaker so making him look like a goober made no sense and Rusev…I guess at least feuded with Cena? But none of that was set up in this match but afterwards when nobody cared. And it didn’t even make Roman because you made him look like a fluke who took advantage of two giants bickering, needed his cousin to help him survive a beat down and then took advantage of someone who got KO’d for ages to win the match. He just looked lucky. The only reason you can look at it was to make everyone miserable and hey, they’re rich regardless so whatever, but it doesn’t seem like a great business model.
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Post by Dr. Bolty, Disaster Enby on Jan 28, 2022 20:48:48 GMT -5
It's probably the first Rumble I remember watching where I was taken out of the storylines, out of the "WWE Universe" sphere, just the first Rumble that I recall seeing past the characters and any story they were telling and instead I just saw it as "booking" if that makes any sense. Never have I seen a Rumble where it felt like I couldn't be fully invested until that one. When I think of it I imagine Kane and Big Show dumping fan favorites out, I remember Ambrose being thrown out like a piece of trash, I remember the crowd booing, I remember Rusev being cheered but it didn't matter, hell then the Reigns stuff and even that Rock "he's the guy guys" thing they tried to pull. It was just wild to me to this day lol. It's like the tagline needs to be "The Bad Booking Rumble" because that's all I remember it for. This does make perfect sense, and I feel like that's a stronger part of what made it bad than it being a deliberate F-U. It's really easy to see the booking logic of every single thing that happens, and how it's all directed to giving Reigns that pop at the end, but it's so obvious that it has the opposite effect. It's basically treating the audience like their cheers can be won by cheat codes.
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Futureraven: Beelzebruv
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
The Ultimate Arbiter of Right And Wrong
Spent half my life here, God help me
Posts: 15,051
Member is Online
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Post by Futureraven: Beelzebruv on Jan 29, 2022 5:36:28 GMT -5
It's probably the first Rumble I remember watching where I was taken out of the storylines, out of the "WWE Universe" sphere, just the first Rumble that I recall seeing past the characters and any story they were telling and instead I just saw it as "booking" if that makes any sense. Never have I seen a Rumble where it felt like I couldn't be fully invested until that one. When I think of it I imagine Kane and Big Show dumping fan favorites out, I remember Ambrose being thrown out like a piece of trash, I remember the crowd booing, I remember Rusev being cheered but it didn't matter, hell then the Reigns stuff and even that Rock "he's the guy guys" thing they tried to pull. It was just wild to me to this day lol. It's like the tagline needs to be "The Bad Booking Rumble" because that's all I remember it for. I completely get what you mean. Like, you can look at most matches or events and go “Ok, they did this because they’re setting up this and they want this for WrestleMania so they’re doing this” but looking through even the small parts of the Rumble, there was no reason for most of the match to happen. Show and Kane didn’t set up anything for ‘Mania, Ambrose, Bryan, Ziggler ended up in the ladder match for the IC, Wyatt was supposed to face The Undertaker so making him look like a goober made no sense and Rusev…I guess at least feuded with Cena? But none of that was set up in this match but afterwards when nobody cared. And it didn’t even make Roman because you made him look like a fluke who took advantage of two giants bickering, needed his cousin to help him survive a beat down and then took advantage of someone who got KO’d for ages to win the match. He just looked lucky. The only reason you can look at it was to make everyone miserable and hey, they’re rich regardless so whatever, but it doesn’t seem like a great business model. For all them wanting Roman to be "the guy" they really undercut him with the booking. Not just the terrible promos, but stuff like that, he's not dominating, he needs a fluke and help. Was it the next year he disappeared for so long he got a "Roman's sleeping" chant? When the crowd are noticing he's not doing anything... If he didn't have the stamina, fill the ring, give him a late number and he wrecks shit, or have him tied up in the corner lots so he can rest but actually be seen to be fighting. Then they made him choke against Brock at least 3 times in a row, made him look like a chump.
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Post by Alice Syndrome on Jan 29, 2022 7:46:01 GMT -5
2014 was an accidental FU. 2015 was deliberate.
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Post by TheMediocreWarrior on Jan 29, 2022 15:34:26 GMT -5
I watched it again, and there are even little things that are dumb. Mizdow gets the crowd cheering again, but they have him get eliminated right after his big moment. WWE Creative either knew they would keep poking the bear that was an angry crowd and thought it would be good for laughs, or they lacked awareness of how the crowd was going to turn on Roman instead of see him as a hero.
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Post by eJm on Jan 29, 2022 16:01:33 GMT -5
I watched it again, and there are even little things that are dumb. Mizdow gets the crowd cheering again, but they have him get eliminated right after his big moment. WWE Creative either knew they would keep poking the bear that was an angry crowd and thought it would be good for laughs, or they lacked awareness of how the crowd was going to turn on Roman instead of see him as a hero. Another comparison to 2018, after Heath Slater got beaten up for ages, he got his big moment where he dumped out Sheamus in seconds and got a massive pop so if he was eliminated, it wouldn’t hurt the match overall because it paid off a slow build. In 2015, Mizdow got a big pop and ran in, did nothing of note and then got dumped out. Which was added to the list by people like Ziggler who came in, did nothing of note and got dumped out.
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asuka007
Fry's dog Seymour
Posts: 20,493
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Post by asuka007 on Jan 29, 2022 16:16:20 GMT -5
What made it even worse is that, per usual, instead of learning anything from this. They made excuses and then just barreled ahead with the super-push of Roman after that.
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msc
Dennis Stamp
Posts: 4,449
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Post by msc on Jan 29, 2022 17:51:41 GMT -5
Something I forgot to mention in my stupidly long post the other day. When Bryan goes, we have 2 minutes of the following 4 people being in the ring - Rusev, Bray Wyatt, Stardust, Goldust.
Or, four heels.
So there is no audience figure to root for (and Kofi was in his shortlived heel phase too, so there's no actual proper face until Ryback at 22)
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Post by EoE: Well There's Your Problem on Jan 29, 2022 17:56:35 GMT -5
Kingston was still babyface technically, but this was the weird first version of New Day that leaned real hard on the motivational preacher side of things before they added the geeky charm, and it was the first night that crowds were actively like “F*** YOU GUYS” with the act.
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Jan 29, 2022 18:01:43 GMT -5
I always thought the Roman hate started in 2014. So THIS seems to be where it originated from if the posts here are accuarate. It was brewing in 2014 before the Rumble. After the 2014 Rumble, WWE got increasingly obvious that they wanted to launch Roman into the stratosphere post-Shield, and the breakup played out in a way that simultaneously made clear that WWE saw Roman as the breakout star (by putting him in big matches right afterward) while making Ambrose and Rollins look better to the audience (by having a good feud over the Shield breakup while Roman went on to other things while still using the Shield entrance and music). The Rumble was more a confirmation of a lot of fans' increasing dread with Roman's booking. Roman was booed at the 2014 Slammys for winning the Superstar of the year, despite not really doing anything and being out for a large chunk of the solo run... especially when Dean Ambrose was around and was by far more popular than Roman after the Shield split. it didn't go full on we want nothing to do with you heat until the rumble. The Rumble being absolutely booked like shit and being "you should only care about Roman" and then also "Roman only won because Kane and Big Show are idiots". combined with literally NOTHING coming out of the rumble... no storylines were started, continued, or ended at the rumble... no matches at Mania started based on shit that happened in the Rumble... it was basically entirely pointless.
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msc
Dennis Stamp
Posts: 4,449
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Post by msc on Jan 29, 2022 18:02:33 GMT -5
Kingston was still babyface technically, but this was the weird first version of New Day that leaned real hard on the motivational preacher side of things before they added the geeky charm, and it was the first night that crowds were actively like “F*** YOU GUYS” with the act. Apparently the New Day heel turn which got rapidly axed because it was a bit too close to real world events was in Summer 2015, not 2014. All these things just melt into the one period after a while...
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msc
Dennis Stamp
Posts: 4,449
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Post by msc on Jan 29, 2022 18:06:36 GMT -5
I watched it again, and there are even little things that are dumb. Mizdow gets the crowd cheering again, but they have him get eliminated right after his big moment. WWE Creative either knew they would keep poking the bear that was an angry crowd and thought it would be good for laughs, or they lacked awareness of how the crowd was going to turn on Roman instead of see him as a hero. Another comparison to 2018, after Heath Slater got beaten up for ages, he got his big moment where he dumped out Sheamus in seconds and got a massive pop so if he was eliminated, it wouldn’t hurt the match overall because it paid off a slow build. In 2015, Mizdow got a big pop and ran in, did nothing of note and then got dumped out. Which was added to the list by people like Ziggler who came in, did nothing of note and got dumped out. 2018 was such a well booked Rumble, everyone got a moment. 2016 always felt a bit like a lesson learned from 2015 though. Reigns starting off and fans not keen? Don't worry, he's AJ STYLES immediately. AJ eliminated, crowd a bit unhappy. Don't worry, here's Dean Ambrose and the returning SAMI ZAYN immediately. Wyatt Family eliminate Sami, crowd a bit unhappy? Don't worry, here's BROCK. Brock eliminated. OK, here's Dolph Ziggler, you guys still like him. Oh, and TRIPLE H. Need the fans to actually boo HHH winning? Have Ambrose as your final guy and tease him winning. Anytime something that would piss off the live crowd, they had a make do waiting in the wings.
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