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Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2022 15:36:19 GMT -5
Roman is just Diesel circa 1994-1995, but time moves more slowly in WWE these days, so we’ve been forced to endure his artificial run at the top for more than just a year.
I get it, I get it, the “Head of the Table” run has been pretty good. But dude is Diesel tier. He’s not Bret, Shawn, Stone Cold, Rock, or even Cena.
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Post by GodzillaIsMyMonster on Apr 2, 2022 15:41:28 GMT -5
Yes. Like... a million times yes.
HBK is the most overrated over hyped wrestler ever. He was not a draw at all.
Bret drew internationally, but still wasn't that a big of an American draw, which is why Vince always went with someone else over Bret most of the time.
Roman draws. He sells merchandise, tickets, video games, ratings.
People who say no, are blinded by nostalgia or personal preference.
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Post by GodzillaIsMyMonster on Apr 2, 2022 15:46:05 GMT -5
Even putting aside any questionso f how good this run he's on actually is, five years of being rejected and poorly built followed by two years of hyperdominance is not putting you above some of the best of all time. HBK's longevity and overall quality and Bret's sheer excellence in his craft are way bigger than one run at the top. A two-year streak should be the cherry on top of your career, not your main course. Austin had... 3 years on top? And really thats debatable. He has 98 & 99, for sure 100%. He missed 2000 & was eclipsed by The Rock. Listen to the pops. Outside of Texas, Rock is outpopping Austin as soon as the faux face run in 98. But with 2 years as the top guy he's considered a legend.
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Post by stoptheclocks on Apr 2, 2022 15:46:15 GMT -5
Vince McMahon was so desperate to keep Bret Hart, he was willing to offer him a 20-year deal. Now, Vince McMahon can replace Roman Reigns in the main event of Wrestlemania with a weeks notice. I wouldn't put Roman above Bret or Shawn, but I don't think that's a great argument for it. Vince not only replaced Bret, his show was never better or more popular after it.
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Post by Jindrak Mark on Apr 2, 2022 15:49:32 GMT -5
For me, no. He would have to have another 5+ years like the past 2 to even be in the conversation. He may have main evented Wrestlemania a bunch of times before it but it's only since the heel turn he's felt like an actual massive star to me.
To the younger fans who give him a massive reaction every week he's probably already there though. Seriously, the Shield guys are absolutely worshipped by this newer generation of fans, just have a look on social media. Only Becky and Sasha come close from post-2012 debuts. In 10 years when those fans are in their 20/30s like most of us are now they will be looking back and talking about them in legendary tones, probably above HBK/Bret level but even they'll have to concede they weren't bigger than Bruno/Hogan/Austin/Cena.
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bob
Salacious Crumb
The "other" Bob. FOC COURSE!
started the Madness Wars, Proudly the #1 Nana Hater on FAN
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Post by bob on Apr 2, 2022 15:55:31 GMT -5
![](https://i.imgur.com/cuMRwJ4.gif) not even close, Bret and Shawn are rarified air in terms of wrestling influence and legacy Roman isn't even close to them
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Post by Final Countdown Jones on Apr 2, 2022 15:58:40 GMT -5
Even putting aside any questionso f how good this run he's on actually is, five years of being rejected and poorly built followed by two years of hyperdominance is not putting you above some of the best of all time. HBK's longevity and overall quality and Bret's sheer excellence in his craft are way bigger than one run at the top. A two-year streak should be the cherry on top of your career, not your main course. Austin had... 3 years on top? And really thats debatable. He has 98 & 99, for sure 100%. He missed 2000 & was eclipsed by The Rock. Listen to the pops. Outside of Texas, Rock is outpopping Austin as soon as the faux face run in 98. But with 2 years as the top guy he's considered a legend. But Austin's career wasn't marred by him spending five years being vocally rejected by the audience. Austin spent two legendary years as a top guy. Roman has spent over three times as long, and spent over twice as long being booed and rejected. I think it's oversimplifying to compare Austin because it ignores the pop culture penetration that is a lot of why he's so regarded to this day, but Austin also doesn't have a black mark over his career that the rest of his body of work has had to overcome. There's also Austin's '96 and '97. His career stands beyond his run at the top.
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Post by GodzillaIsMyMonster on Apr 2, 2022 16:00:24 GMT -5
Austin had... 3 years on top? And really thats debatable. He has 98 & 99, for sure 100%. He missed 2000 & was eclipsed by The Rock. Listen to the pops. Outside of Texas, Rock is outpopping Austin as soon as the faux face run in 98. But with 2 years as the top guy he's considered a legend. But Austin's career wasn't marred by him spending five years being vocally rejected by the audience. Austin spent two legendary years as a top guy. Roman has spent over three times as long, and spent over twice as long being booed and rejected. I think it's oversimplifying to compare Austin because it ignores the pop culture penetration that is a lot of why he's so regarded to this day, but Austin also doesn't have a black mark over his career that the rest of his body of work has had to overcome. Other than beating his wife? But honestly, I don't think Roman was as despised as people say, and either way, even then, he was a DRAW.
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Apr 2, 2022 16:01:04 GMT -5
Yeah, this threads gone about the way I thought it would lmfao
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Post by GodzillaIsMyMonster on Apr 2, 2022 16:01:58 GMT -5
there's also Austin's '96 and '97. His career stands beyond his run at the top. But so does Roman's. His time in the Shield is universally loved.
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Apr 2, 2022 16:04:20 GMT -5
But Austin's career wasn't marred by him spending five years being vocally rejected by the audience. Austin spent two legendary years as a top guy. Roman has spent over three times as long, and spent over twice as long being booed and rejected. I think it's oversimplifying to compare Austin because it ignores the pop culture penetration that is a lot of why he's so regarded to this day, but Austin also doesn't have a black mark over his career that the rest of his body of work has had to overcome. Other than beating his wife? But honestly, I don't think Roman was as despised as people say, and either way, even then, he was a DRAW. He absolutely was as despised as people say, I was there, I watched every show where they muted the f***ing crowd so no one heard the thunderous boos every time he made his entrance, and The Royal Rumble is not some history you can revise, or post-Mania when he beat Taker, hell MANIA when he beat Taker, people hated him, he was the most hated man in wrestling at that time. He was a failed project, for years, The Tribal Chief has been his only really successful singles run, and they've even run that into the dirt. Probably not best either, to say "If you say no, you're just blinded by nostalgia", because that's a great way to just make sure your stance causes more arguments then helps it.
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Apr 2, 2022 16:05:18 GMT -5
But so does Roman's. His time in the Shield is universally loved. We're talking singles runs, dude, and Roman clung to the Shield's popularity for his life for a long time, and it didn't work when he was alone.
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Post by Final Countdown Jones on Apr 2, 2022 16:07:00 GMT -5
But Austin's career wasn't marred by him spending five years being vocally rejected by the audience. Austin spent two legendary years as a top guy. Roman has spent over three times as long, and spent over twice as long being booed and rejected. I think it's oversimplifying to compare Austin because it ignores the pop culture penetration that is a lot of why he's so regarded to this day, but Austin also doesn't have a black mark over his career that the rest of his body of work has had to overcome. Other than beating his wife? But honestly, I don't think Roman was as despised as people say, and either way, even then, he was a DRAW. Holy shit dude. You brought Steve Austin up. I was talking entirely on-screen because I thought being like "Yeah Austin's shitty and I won't cheer a wife beater" was being an excessive bummer but I mean if you wanna get into the idea that it's not fair that years of bad TV get held against someone's career more than domestic violence, we can have that talk. I have lots of real interesting thoughts on that topic. This ain't the place for those, I feel.
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Mochi Lone Wolf
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Development through Destruction.
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Post by Mochi Lone Wolf on Apr 2, 2022 16:07:10 GMT -5
I say this as someone who really likes Roman: absolutely not.
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spagett
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Post by spagett on Apr 2, 2022 16:07:12 GMT -5
Wait a minute, are we seriously having an argument that Roman Reigns has a bigger legacy than Stone Cold Steve Austin?
Roman was very fortunate to come around at a time where the fans could reject you for years and years and years and Vince could just ignore it and push him anyway.
He could have easily been another Lex Luger in a different time, failed main event push, moved down the card.
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Apr 2, 2022 16:07:40 GMT -5
But so does Roman's. His time in the Shield is universally loved. once he left the Shield though he was not over as himself. He was constantly outpopped by Dean, and like 5 other faces. Also on your he was a draw thing... he ... kinda wasn't? The ratings overall still continued their downward trend and his run was when they stopped selling out house shows, and were having trouble selling tickets for TV shows... Hell they were thinking of cancelling House shows in 2019 because of how poorly they were doing... until COVID basically forced them to do it anyway. It's not fair to judge it all on Roman but if you're the main guy like they've been pushing Roman as for 7 years he does have to take some blame for it... especially if you are using that as your only non personal preference reason for saying he's over Michaels. Dude would have killed for Cena's worst night (when he wasn't working heel like One Night Stand) of 50/50... he was getting 25/75 IF he was lucky.
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Post by Cyno on Apr 2, 2022 16:08:39 GMT -5
The Hogan fan who emphatically denies his racism isn't in the best position to bring up post-career black marks on legacies.
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Post by Tiffany Stratton's Daddy on Apr 2, 2022 16:09:30 GMT -5
His heel run has been good... but you're talking about two of the best to ever do it. He might eclipse Bret Hart, but I don't see him eclipsing Shawn Michaels, ever.
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Post by GodzillaIsMyMonster on Apr 2, 2022 16:22:29 GMT -5
The Hogan fan who emphatically denies his racism isn't in the best position to bring up post-career black marks on legacies. I don't deny anything. Because he's not a racist. But IMO saying hurtful words is way less of an offense than actually beating someone. But thats a whole different topic.
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Post by GodzillaIsMyMonster on Apr 2, 2022 16:25:35 GMT -5
once he left the Shield though he was not over as himself. He was constantly outpopped by Dean, and like 5 other faces. Also on your he was a draw thing... he ... kinda wasn't? The ratings overall still continued their downward trend and his run was when they stopped selling out house shows, and were having trouble selling tickets for TV shows... Hell they were thinking of cancelling House shows in 2019 because of how poorly they were doing... until COVID basically forced them to do it anyway. It's not fair to judge it all on Roman but if you're the main guy like they've been pushing Roman as for 7 years he does have to take some blame for it... especially if you are using that as your only non personal preference reason for saying he's over Michaels. Dude would have killed for Cena's worst night (when he wasn't working heel like One Night Stand) of 50/50... he was getting 25/75 IF he was lucky. He was over with kids, and most shows I went to at that time he was OVER. TV crowds full of smarks aren't the best measuring stick. And my point wasn't to say that Austin wasn't over or that Roman is a bigger star. But he is DEF a bigger star than HBK (who damn near bankrupted the company) and Bret (who after he left WWE achieved it's greatest success since the Hogan era.)
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