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Post by héad.casé on Apr 11, 2022 12:02:13 GMT -5
“I had people tell me they like people saying, ‘you’re a good heel.’ If somebody says you’re a good heel, you’re not a good heel. Because a good heel is not somebody you recognize as a heel. A good heel is somebody you go, ‘I hate that guy.’ Would you pay to see somebody beat him? They go, ‘yeah, I hate that guy.’ I have seen guys do some type of dastardly heel tactic or whatever it is. And then they put on their social media their kids and a bible scripture. Like, dude, there’s nothing wrong with your kids and a bible scripture, that’s wonderful. But not if you want to be a heel, you’ve got to stay in character. This social media kills a lot of these guys. Because they just expose the fact that what they’re doing is a work.” “First time I saw a JBL shirt, I literally called Vince and said, ‘what are you doing putting out a JBL shirt?’ He said, ‘I had no idea we had one put out.’ I said, ‘I don’t want some fan wearing one’ Vince goes, ‘I know, take it off.’ So, I never let anybody put out a JBL shirt ever. It was out for a short time, and I got it taken off, because I don’t want some kid in the front row wearing a JBL shirt. And somebody thinking, ‘oh, he must not be a terrible bad guy, because he’s got one fan right there.’ I used to see a section where people wear the hat, and the suit. After a while, the towel and all that stuff. I would get on the microphone, and I would just lambast these guys.” www.wrestlinginc.com/news/2022/04/jbl-gives-his-take-on-what-makes-an-actual-good-heel/
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Post by eJm on Apr 11, 2022 12:04:20 GMT -5
I mean, maybe years ago that would have made sense but when people regularly wear Joker and Thanos merch, you can still appreciate how good a bad guy is and then make sure the company knows they're working. Those people have to be paid too.
EDIT: Also, my snarky answer to this is "do a Nazi salute in Germany".
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thehottag
Don Corleone
We're here for one reason only: fame, fortune, & the World Wrestling Federation Tag Team Champions!
Posts: 1,668
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Post by thehottag on Apr 11, 2022 12:10:27 GMT -5
Dislike this 'one size fits all' approach. Joffrey Baratheon & Darth Vader were both great heels for very different reasons.
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Post by eJm on Apr 11, 2022 12:13:10 GMT -5
Dislike this 'one size fits all' approach. Joffrey Baratheon & Darth Vader were both great geels for very different reasons. One of my favourite heel actions of the past while was when The Inner Circle had "Stadium Stampede Winners 2020" shirts ready to go and they had to sell them discounted when they lost. Because that's what Jericho would do as that kind of heel.
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Post by MrElijah on Apr 11, 2022 12:14:36 GMT -5
I mean, maybe years ago that would have made sense but when people regularly wear Joker and Thanos merch, you can still appreciate how good a bad guy is and then make sure the company knows they're working. Those people have to be paid too. EDIT: Also, my snarky answer to this is "do a Nazi salute in Germany". Even back then you get things like Billy Graham getting cheered in MSG in the late 70s, Savage cheered in Early 87 pre face turn, the Horsemen getting cheered in JCP despite their crusade to kill Dusty and SID who people just wanted to watch him massacre some bum.
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Post by eJm on Apr 11, 2022 12:15:44 GMT -5
I mean, maybe years ago that would have made sense but when people regularly wear Joker and Thanos merch, you can still appreciate how good a bad guy is and then make sure the company knows they're working. Those people have to be paid too. EDIT: Also, my snarky answer to this is "do a Nazi salute in Germany". Even back then you get things like Billy Graham getting cheered in MSG in the late 70s, Savage cheered in Early 87 pre face turn, the Horsemen getting cheered in JCP despite their crusade to kill Dusty and SID who people just wanted to watch him massacre some bum. The whole Sid/Hogan Rumble stuff is an example, too.
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Post by Big DSR Energy on Apr 11, 2022 12:56:20 GMT -5
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Post by jimmyjackezekiel on Apr 11, 2022 13:34:40 GMT -5
I thought the answer was 'Just be as big a dick on stage as you are in the locker room.'
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Post by The Summer of Muskrat XVII on Apr 11, 2022 14:06:25 GMT -5
I mean, maybe years ago that would have made sense but when people regularly wear Joker and Thanos merch, you can still appreciate how good a bad guy is and then make sure the company knows they're working. Those people have to be paid too. EDIT: Also, my snarky answer to this is "do a Nazi salute in Germany". Yeah, like I totally get where his mentality is coming from but the industry has evolved. Fans don’t need to genuinely believe you’re a piece of shit to be a heel anymore, fans are much more willing to roll with the show now, and openly acknowledge and respect that it’s a work while still reacting like everything is real.
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Moppy
Samurai Cop
Posts: 2,217
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Post by Moppy on Apr 11, 2022 14:26:29 GMT -5
In that case I'd just like to congratulate JBL on being a fantastic heel.
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FinalGwen
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Particularly fond of muffins.
Posts: 16,459
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Post by FinalGwen on Apr 11, 2022 14:30:01 GMT -5
"Sexually assault people in the showers and take liberties with your opponents. Then nobody'll wanna cheer you."
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Allie Kitsune
Crow T. Robot
Always Feelin' Foxy.
HaHa U FaLL 4 LaVa TriK
Posts: 46,286
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Post by Allie Kitsune on Apr 11, 2022 14:32:13 GMT -5
I mean, maybe years ago that would have made sense but when people regularly wear Joker and Thanos merch, you can still appreciate how good a bad guy is and then make sure the company knows they're working. Those people have to be paid too. EDIT: Also, my snarky answer to this is "do a Nazi salute in Germany". Yeah, like I totally get where his mentality is coming from but the industry has evolved. Fans don’t need to genuinely believe you’re a piece of shit to be a heel anymore, fans are much more willing to roll with the show now, and openly acknowledge and respect that it’s a work while still reacting like everything is real. Not to mention, if they genuinely believe you're a piece of shit, they will genuinely want you OUT OF THE BUSINESS entirely.
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Legion
Fry's dog Seymour
Amy Pond's #1 fan
Hail Hydra!
Posts: 22,963
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Post by Legion on Apr 11, 2022 17:07:54 GMT -5
I get what he's saying, but it is that clear divide between how the older generation saw the business, and the new new generation and how they embrace and use social media to get over as people.
You still get people doing what he is saying though - look at MJF or his more famous counterpart. They know how to use social media to push their characters, but still understand their is money to be made from followers and fans, even fans who just want to see you get your teeth kicked in, so will slip in to the real them from time to time or play tongue in cheek when needed.
Granted, he is right that sometimes I think storylines suffer from the knowledge that it is just a character and so you have an evil heel also streaming their super fun backstage real life skits and so it does break the illusion...but that's where we are now. You can't put the genie back in the bottle. Kayfabe is dead.
Everyone knows wrestling is fake. Everyone knows you are just playing a character. Everyone knows you are an actor. A physical one, but an actor all the same.
Some of the older generation refuse to accept that, wont buy in to it and can't see the advantages that do exist once you do. And boy do they dislike the new people who do.
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Post by Mr Mario Mario on Apr 11, 2022 17:11:20 GMT -5
This social media kills a lot of these guys. Because they just expose the fact that what they’re doing is a work.” F*** me with this take Social media is to blame for a lot of stuff but exposing that wrestling is a work is not one of them How many documentaries has WWE put out that shot the corpse of kayfabe? But sure pictures on social media that you have to go out your way to see is what’s doing it
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2022 17:11:49 GMT -5
Even people like MJF that never break character, you still know its a character.
This isn't the 80's.
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Dub H
Crow T. Robot
Captain Pixel: the Game Master
I ❤ Aniki
Posts: 47,964
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Post by Dub H on Apr 11, 2022 17:12:48 GMT -5
JBL is a Stupid Dum-Dum
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Post by eJm on Apr 11, 2022 17:16:11 GMT -5
This social media kills a lot of these guys. Because they just expose the fact that what they’re doing is a work.” F*** me with this take Social media is to blame for a lot of stuff but exposing that wrestling is a work is not one of them How many documentaries has WWE put out that shot the corpse of kayfabe? But sure pictures on social media that you have to go out your way to see is what’s doing it I mean, the Monday Night Wars did more to expose the business to fans than any social media post has ever done. Like, more people watched Russo constantly talk about how wrestling is a work and you’re dumb for being invested in it on Nitro than people watching most TV shows on actual TV now.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2022 17:36:36 GMT -5
I mean, he's kinda right.
In my book, the best heel right now is Baron Corbin.
Cause there's nothing likeable about him. He's not a "cool heel", he's just a dispicable douchebag.
Too many wrestlers try to be "cool, funny heels"... Remember when HHH and Austin beat the shit out of Lita with a chair? THAT was heat.
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Post by eJm on Apr 11, 2022 17:44:45 GMT -5
I mean, he's kinda right. In my book, the best heel right now is Baron Corbin. Cause there's nothing likeable about him. He's not a "cool heel", he's just a dispicable douchebag. Too many wrestlers try to be "cool, funny heels"... Remember when HHH and Austin beat the shit out of Lita with a chair? THAT was heat. I mean, the nWo made the business millions by being cool heels so I can’t say I blame them for trying?
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Apr 11, 2022 23:31:02 GMT -5
I mean, he's kinda right. In my book, the best heel right now is Baron Corbin. Cause there's nothing likeable about him. He's not a "cool heel", he's just a dispicable douchebag. Too many wrestlers try to be "cool, funny heels"... Remember when HHH and Austin beat the shit out of Lita with a chair? THAT was heat. I mean, the nWo made the business millions by being cool heels so I can’t say I blame them for trying? and people like Ric Flair/the Horsemen are considered like the best heels of all time and there were tons of people that cheered and wanted to be like them...
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