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Post by "Evil Brood" Jackson Vanik on Apr 11, 2022 23:40:21 GMT -5
I mean, he's kinda right. In my book, the best heel right now is Baron Corbin. Cause there's nothing likeable about him. He's not a "cool heel", he's just a dispicable douchebag. Too many wrestlers try to be "cool, funny heels"... Remember when HHH and Austin beat the shit out of Lita with a chair? THAT was heat. I mean, the nWo made the business millions by being cool heels so I can’t say I blame them for trying? There's the nWo, the Horseman, Roddy Piper, the Rock, Triple H, Cena, Orton at times, Jericho in AEW. History is literally littered with cool heels that some fans cheered and business was just fine if not bolstered by it. As long as you still have compelling faces, they'll be fine. It's why some of the best MMA feuds involved heels like Conor or Floyd who still had vocal fan bases. |
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Fade
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Post by Fade on Apr 11, 2022 23:56:02 GMT -5
Then, I guess to his credit, I really disliked him when he was having his heel main event run. Cosplaying as Dubya, the border shit. The ECW stuff. So…he was..a good..heel?! Bad?! *combusts*
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Mozenrath
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Post by Mozenrath on Apr 12, 2022 0:04:07 GMT -5
In that case I'd just like to congratulate JBL on being a fantastic heel. I mean, yeah. I know the point you're making, and you're right, but it did also make him a world champion and the ratings went up with him as champion, even if they did likely stick with him for too long. Of course, he also absolutely was in the right place at the right time, being a rich Texan they could use as their stand-in for George W. Bush for heat. Without that and WWE milking his very real reputation with fans, then that title reign never happens. |
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Post by Rolent Tex on Apr 12, 2022 0:05:09 GMT -5
I don’t want to hear a single damn person that’s taken paychecks from Vince bitch about social media killing good heels. Your damn buddy Vince took kayfabe out back and shot it dead so he wouldn’t have to pay taxes in some states since it wasn’t a real sport. Give me a break. Plus the nWo age DX existing alone destroys his argument.
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Allie Kitsune
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Post by Allie Kitsune on Apr 12, 2022 7:59:43 GMT -5
I mean, he's kinda right. In my book, the best heel right now is Baron Corbin. Cause there's nothing likeable about him. He's not a "cool heel", he's just a dispicable douchebag. Too many wrestlers try to be "cool, funny heels"... Remember when HHH and Austin beat the shit out of Lita with a chair? THAT was heat. It's also going to limit his opportunities should he ever leave WWE. Since he's made zero attempt to endear himself to fans, inside the ring or out, nobody's going to be clamoring for him to be booked anywhere else. Nobody's going to buy a ticket to see Tom Pestock on the indies. |
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Post by Final Countdown Jones on Apr 12, 2022 8:09:27 GMT -5
Oh I see, so JBL is only a sexual abuser and a bully because he's living the gimmick for legit heat. Brilliant stuff, very bold of him. Still a sexual abuser and a bully. He's confused the fact people don't like him because he's one of the most cretinous goons in major wrestling in the 21st century with how people should interact with media.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2022 8:49:40 GMT -5
I mean, he's kinda right. In my book, the best heel right now is Baron Corbin. Cause there's nothing likeable about him. He's not a "cool heel", he's just a dispicable douchebag. Too many wrestlers try to be "cool, funny heels"... Remember when HHH and Austin beat the shit out of Lita with a chair? THAT was heat. It's also going to limit his opportunities should he ever leave WWE. Since he's made zero attempt to endear himself to fans, inside the ring or out, nobody's going to be clamoring for him to be booked anywhere else. Nobody's going to buy a ticket to see Tom Pestock on the indies. AEW would probably hire him, let's be honest. From what I heard, Corbin is a good guy in real life. Back in the day, anybody with a bit of name value showed up in WCW. Even the likes of Nailz. |
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Post by eJm on Apr 12, 2022 8:50:48 GMT -5
It's also going to limit his opportunities should he ever leave WWE. Since he's made zero attempt to endear himself to fans, inside the ring or out, nobody's going to be clamoring for him to be booked anywhere else. Nobody's going to buy a ticket to see Tom Pestock on the indies. AEW would probably hire him, let's be honest. Back in the day, anybody with a bit of name value showed up in WCW. Even the likes of Nailz. That doesn't really lead me to believe that AEW would hire him. Especially considering Impact's hired more ex-WWE talent than AEW has. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2022 8:54:48 GMT -5
AEW would probably hire him, let's be honest. Back in the day, anybody with a bit of name value showed up in WCW. Even the likes of Nailz. That doesn't really lead me to believe that AEW would hire him. Especially considering Impact's hired more ex-WWE talent than AEW has. There's no real way of finding out until it happens. But I could see a role for him in AEW as MJF's bodyguard or something. I don't believe for a second that Corbin wouldn't get work after WWE though. Heels like him are always valuable. They even hired Vickie Guerrero. |
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Post by eJm on Apr 12, 2022 8:59:25 GMT -5
There's no real way of finding out until it happens. I mean, sure, but that doesn't really back up what you're saying. You said the reason AEW would hire people is because anyone with a name got hired to WCW. That was because it was WCW or nothing for the most part in America and WCW were looking for anyone with notoriety. If that were the case, a lot more people would have been in AEW by now. F***ing Gunner would have been in AEW by now. Also, "we have no way of knowing" is quite different from "let's be honest". |
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Post by sportatorium on Apr 12, 2022 9:20:29 GMT -5
The best part of JBL covering what has been said a million times by other people is that he got his t-shirt pulled rather than poor sales getting it pulled.
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Post by HMARK Center on Apr 12, 2022 10:49:28 GMT -5
There's two sides to this argument and I hate that too often the people making it, like JBL here, don't acknowledge that there's layers here.
On the one hand, I get it: don't use your social media or whatever to humanize yourself, make it as easy as possible for the crowd to slip into booing you. If the fans have images in their mind of you with your kids, or saying something nice to someone on a public forum, that can stick in their heads and make it tougher to fall into giving the kind of reaction that most heels are angling for.
On the other, and very importantly, it's completely possible for someone to be a hated heel, but to still be able to sell merchandise because, obviously, the crowd knows they're watching a character. When I'd go to ROH shows circa 2005-2009, one of the most fun things to do was to boo The Embassy and later on Chris Hero, they were delightfully loathsome, and they helped a lot of babyfaces get over by being such pricks...that doesn't mean people wouldn't buy merch for the heels, though, because even if those heels are maintaining their aura outside the ring the fans still know they're playing characters.
And yeah, ultimately not all heels need to be completely hated; plenty of super successful heels have had vocal cheering contingents in fanbases, plenty of them come off as cool as hell, but they can still be a successful heel so long as they have strong babyfaces to work with, so it's not a big deal if the heel pulls off a cool move or two or does something that gets them some cheers now and then.
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Post by EoE: Well There's Your Problem on Apr 12, 2022 10:58:45 GMT -5
There’s also the fact that, and you wouldn’t believe it but it seems to be an issue that only exists in WWE, but a lot of heel runs are taken as seemingly almost as punishment by the fanbase. That it’s like they’re saying “We don’t want you to like this person, we want you to like this other person instead”, slowly taking away character traits and quirks until the heel is just a frowning husk, and the babyface gets all the resentment because the writing has done nothing to build them up or even make them likeable, because they’ve been so focused on deconstructing the heel so nobody cheers them. Either that, or nobody reacts to either of them. F***. That’s a bit cutting coming from me, isn’t it?  |
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the2ndevil
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Post by the2ndevil on Apr 12, 2022 14:34:56 GMT -5
I think one of my favorite moments of heeldom was Neville’s Cruiserweight dominance.
He stopped doing the cool flashy moves moves that the fans wanted to see.
I remember at least once, he went to the top rope, teasing the Red Arrow, the fans got excited, so he hopped down and just threw the Rings Of Saturn on his opponent, instead.
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Apr 12, 2022 15:13:24 GMT -5
I think one of my favorite moments of heeldom was Neville’s Cruiserweight dominance. He stopped doing the cool flashy moves moves that the fans wanted to see. I remember at least once, he went to the top rope, teasing the Red Arrow, the fans got excited, so he hopped down and just threw the Rings Of Saturn on his opponent, instead. that's why he's a bastard. |
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Post by eJm on Apr 12, 2022 15:58:33 GMT -5
I think one of my favorite moments of heeldom was Neville’s Cruiserweight dominance. He stopped doing the cool flashy moves moves that the fans wanted to see. I remember at least once, he went to the top rope, teasing the Red Arrow, the fans got excited, so he hopped down and just threw the Rings Of Saturn on his opponent, instead. that's why he's a....BBBBASTARD! Fixed that for you |
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Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on Apr 12, 2022 17:07:27 GMT -5
I mean, he's kinda right. In my book, the best heel right now is Baron Corbin. Cause there's nothing likeable about him. He's not a "cool heel", he's just a dispicable douchebag. Too many wrestlers try to be "cool, funny heels"... Remember when HHH and Austin beat the shit out of Lita with a chair? THAT was heat. Baron is firmly in my boy stable but that isn't heat, he killed ratings |
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Post by eJm on Apr 12, 2022 17:18:08 GMT -5
I mean, he's kinda right. In my book, the best heel right now is Baron Corbin. Cause there's nothing likeable about him. He's not a "cool heel", he's just a dispicable douchebag. Too many wrestlers try to be "cool, funny heels"... Remember when HHH and Austin beat the shit out of Lita with a chair? THAT was heat. Baron is firmly in my boy stable but that isn't heat, he killed ratings But that's good heel heat. You make people hate you enough to never watch again. |
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Post by Wieners=$$$ on Apr 12, 2022 17:29:36 GMT -5
I would like to hear JBL's take on John Cena as a face, using this same logic🤔
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Post by sunnytaker on Apr 13, 2022 9:36:27 GMT -5
Dislike this 'one size fits all' approach. Joffrey Baratheon & Darth Vader were both great geels for very different reasons. One of my favourite heel actions of the past while was when The Inner Circle had "Stadium Stampede Winners 2020" shirts ready to go and they had to sell them discounted when they lost. Because that's what Jericho would do as that kind of heel. something like that always reminds me of the "super bowl winner" t-shirts they premake for both teams then they end up having to donate them to some charity for supposedly third world countries where i imagine someone is running around talking about the 4 time consecutive super winning buffalo bills from the 90s because they have all the shirts. |
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