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Post by ChitownKnight on Apr 14, 2022 23:28:20 GMT -5
AJ has been treated well, Cody seems to be getting treated well. I guess it’s because wwe has real competition now, but has this ever really even been that much of an issue? Booker T and Goldberg were also treated well back in the 2000s
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Nosnorb
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Post by Nosnorb on Apr 15, 2022 2:53:31 GMT -5
Booker T had some extremely rough booking, and of course there was that feud with Triple H. The one year run of Goldberg was no great shakes either. With Cody, my guess is that Vince and/or his goons see a lot more in Cody than they did with AJ and know they have to push him as a big star. And at this stage, Cody has been booked a lot stronger than AJ was and has been made to look like a much bigger star. AJ lost to Jericho in his first WM match and has also lost on Free TV, Cody won his against Seth and has yet to lose on Free TV.
Biggest difference is that now WWE is no longer the only game in town, and they have to push Cody as a star to show AEW talent that they will be pushed in WWE. WWE didn't have as much incentive to push Styles because the likes of Eric Young and Bobby Roode would still have signed.
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Post by eJm on Apr 15, 2022 2:56:44 GMT -5
I mean, it's less he's over his own grievances about it and more that even he must realize the opportunity that has fallen onto his lap and knows it has to go well.
Like, I'm not even saying that if Cody has a bad time after these first few weeks, nobody from AEW will jump ship ever again but it won't exactly convince anyone over there without spending a lot of money if you're going to mess up having one of the co-founders of your biggest rivals since WCW return to your company. If you can't do him right, what hope does a MJF or a Jungle Boy have?
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Post by ThankGodForSidJustice on Apr 15, 2022 3:32:45 GMT -5
Booker T had some extremely rough booking, and of course there was that feud with Triple H. The one year run of Goldberg was no great shakes either. With Cody, my guess is that Vince and/or his goons see a lot more in Cody than they did with AJ and know they have to push him as a big star. And at this stage, Cody has been booked a lot stronger than AJ was and has been made to look like a much bigger star. AJ lost to Jericho in his first WM match and has also lost on Free TV, Cody won his against Seth and has yet to lose on Free TV. Biggest difference is that now WWE is no longer the only game in town, and they have to push Cody as a star to show AEW talent that they will be pushed in WWE. WWE didn't have as much incentive to push Styles because the likes of Eric Young and Bobby Roode would still have signed.
Cody hasn't even been there two weeks yet so it's probably a bit too soon to compare him to Styles. AJ debuted at Royal Rumble in January and I don't think they started having him lose matches until like March I want to say. He lost to Jericho at Mania but I think his first job I wanna say was to Owens after a Jericho distraction finish in the build up to the Mania match.
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Nosnorb
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Post by Nosnorb on Apr 15, 2022 3:47:27 GMT -5
Booker T had some extremely rough booking, and of course there was that feud with Triple H. The one year run of Goldberg was no great shakes either. With Cody, my guess is that Vince and/or his goons see a lot more in Cody than they did with AJ and know they have to push him as a big star. And at this stage, Cody has been booked a lot stronger than AJ was and has been made to look like a much bigger star. AJ lost to Jericho in his first WM match and has also lost on Free TV, Cody won his against Seth and has yet to lose on Free TV. Biggest difference is that now WWE is no longer the only game in town, and they have to push Cody as a star to show AEW talent that they will be pushed in WWE. WWE didn't have as much incentive to push Styles because the likes of Eric Young and Bobby Roode would still have signed.
Cody hasn't even been there two weeks yet so it's probably a bit too soon to compare him to Styles. AJ debuted at Royal Rumble in January and I don't think they started having him lose matches until like March I want to say. He lost to Jericho at Mania but I think his first job I wanna say was to Owens after a Jericho distraction finish in the build up to the Mania match. Styles lost to Jericho clean a few weeks after the Royal Rumble.
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Mozenrath
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Post by Mozenrath on Apr 15, 2022 3:53:25 GMT -5
It's very much a case-by-case basis. Cody and AJ Styles are much bigger names right now than a lot of the guys WWE have mistreated on coming in, so, it all depends.
I will say that I used to think WWE did Booker T dirtier on making him into a comedic figure, but then I rewatched WCW in like 1999 until the end, and BOY did WWE play to his strengths as a performer much, much more. Champion Booker T was only modestly more credibly treated than Rey Mysterio, World Champion in WWE.
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Post by ThankGodForSidJustice on Apr 15, 2022 4:04:05 GMT -5
Cody hasn't even been there two weeks yet so it's probably a bit too soon to compare him to Styles. AJ debuted at Royal Rumble in January and I don't think they started having him lose matches until like March I want to say. He lost to Jericho at Mania but I think his first job I wanna say was to Owens after a Jericho distraction finish in the build up to the Mania match. Styles lost to Jericho clean a few weeks after the Royal Rumble. I stand corrected. Looking at Cagematch AJ also beat him first and then beat him again at Fastlane so I guess maybe that's why I don't remember or why it didn't bother me much like something like that normally would. Also it looks like Jericho had recently made one of his Rumble returns so I guess I just kind of saw it as well "AJ is new but Jericho is a legend who just came back" so them going even steven isn't that ludicrous. As apposed to if Jericho had already been back a while and jobbed a bunch.
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Bad Moon
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Post by Bad Moon on Apr 15, 2022 4:18:03 GMT -5
Does Cody even count as coming from competition? Lashley and Drew spent more time away from WWE than he ever has.
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Post by Feyrhausen on Apr 15, 2022 4:34:31 GMT -5
Does Cody even count as coming from competition? Lashley and Drew spent more time away from WWE than he ever has. WWE considered them competition. They signed a massive amount of talent and paid them to sit at home to keep AEW from being able to use them. The moved their developmental show from the Network to USA to try and hurt AEW ratings.
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Post by eJm on Apr 15, 2022 4:41:35 GMT -5
Does Cody even count as coming from competition? Lashley and Drew spent more time away from WWE than he ever has. WWE considered them competition. They signed a massive amount of talent and paid them to sit at home to keep AEW from being able to use them. The moved their developmental show from the Network to USA to try and hurt AEW ratings. And also, to put it simply without examples...he left a rival company to join the other. By definition, that's coming from the competition. Timeframes be damned, really.
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Mozenrath
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Post by Mozenrath on Apr 15, 2022 4:42:27 GMT -5
Does Cody even count as coming from competition? Lashley and Drew spent more time away from WWE than he ever has. WWE considered them competition. They signed a massive amount of talent and paid them to sit at home to keep AEW from being able to use them. The moved their developmental show from the Network to USA to try and hurt AEW ratings. They also referred to them as competition as part of their defense in the legal issues with MLW, and AEW's definitely provoked more defensive behavior from WWE than TNA ever did for probably a variety of reasons. Or are you saying, Bad Moon, that since Cody is essentially WWE home-grown that it's more a "returning star" kind of thing? I guess Cody's sort of a hybrid case at this point. WWE did definitely lean into Cody's WWE history and play it up, obviously, in a way they didn't do with Drew for the most part and haven't done with Lashley that much.
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Post by eJm on Apr 15, 2022 4:45:19 GMT -5
I mean, I think the key difference between Cody and others is that Cody partially founded that rival company that he was a part of so I'd consider that jumping from the competition.
Just like if Jeff Jarrett left Impact to go to WWE right away instead of the weird path he went on, I'd consider that the same thing since, like, he founded the company he was leaving..
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Bad Moon
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Post by Bad Moon on Apr 15, 2022 5:04:39 GMT -5
WWE considered them competition. They signed a massive amount of talent and paid them to sit at home to keep AEW from being able to use them. The moved their developmental show from the Network to USA to try and hurt AEW ratings. They also referred to them as competition as part of their defense in the legal issues with MLW, and AEW's definitely provoked more defensive behavior from WWE than TNA ever did for probably a variety of reasons. Or are you saying, Bad Moon, that since Cody is essentially WWE home-grown that it's more a "returning star" kind of thing? I guess Cody's sort of a hybrid case at this point. WWE did definitely lean into Cody's WWE history and play it up, obviously, in a way they didn't do with Drew for the most part and haven't done with Lashley that much. That was my point, even when he was in NJPW and AEW I never really stopped thinking of Cody as a WWE guy. I don't know if that's the same for everyone though.
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Post by eJm on Apr 15, 2022 5:07:17 GMT -5
They also referred to them as competition as part of their defense in the legal issues with MLW, and AEW's definitely provoked more defensive behavior from WWE than TNA ever did for probably a variety of reasons. Or are you saying, Bad Moon, that since Cody is essentially WWE home-grown that it's more a "returning star" kind of thing? I guess Cody's sort of a hybrid case at this point. WWE did definitely lean into Cody's WWE history and play it up, obviously, in a way they didn't do with Drew for the most part and haven't done with Lashley that much. That was my point, even when he was in NJPW and AEW I never really stopped thinking of Cody as a WWE guy. I don't know if that's the same for everyone though. Ahh, I get what you mean now. I guess it sort of depends on what you do after you leave. Like, Lashley and Drew feel more like their TNA personas than their original WWE ones and honestly, Cody right now is so far from his WWE persona, it's weird we had an age where his nickname was CAWdy.
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Mozenrath
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Post by Mozenrath on Apr 15, 2022 5:08:19 GMT -5
I mean, I think the key difference between Cody and others is that Cody partially founded that rival company that he was a part of so I'd consider that jumping from the competition. Just like if Jeff Jarrett left Impact to go to WWE right away instead of the weird path he went on, I'd consider that the same thing since, like, he founded the company he was leaving.. I don't know if Jerry and Jeff Jarrett ever commented on it one way or another, but I know that it's been suggested that part of why they even founded TNA was not to give Jeff somewhere to be the main attraction, even if that was part of it. Rather, it was supposedly to try to get it going for a few years and present it to WWE to buy out. The guy they put in charge of PPVs grossly misled Jeff about the revenue stream, leading to racking up debts and needing to sell to Dixie instead, rather than being able to bargain from a strong position with WWE. I have zero idea if that's more than speculation from people, though. Still, had that happened, there is definitely a time period where I could have seen Jeff getting some last run with WWE, and while I don't really picture them putting a world title on him for it, it'd have been quite the alternate history.
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Post by eJm on Apr 15, 2022 5:11:29 GMT -5
I mean, I think the key difference between Cody and others is that Cody partially founded that rival company that he was a part of so I'd consider that jumping from the competition. Just like if Jeff Jarrett left Impact to go to WWE right away instead of the weird path he went on, I'd consider that the same thing since, like, he founded the company he was leaving.. I don't know if Jerry and Jeff Jarrett ever commented on it one way or another, but I know that it's been suggested that part of why they even founded TNA was not to give Jeff somewhere to be the main attraction, even if that was part of it. Rather, it was supposedly to try to get it going for a few years and present it to WWE to buy out. The guy they put in charge of PPVs grossly misled Jeff about the revenue stream, leading to racking up debts and needing to sell to Dixie instead, rather than being able to bargain from a strong position with WWE. I have zero idea if that's more than speculation from people, though. Still, had that happened, there is definitely a time period where I could have seen Jeff getting some last run with WWE, and while I don't really picture them putting a world title on him for it, it'd have been quite the alternate history. So I'm listening to a TNA history podcast (You've Got to Be Kidding Me, going through TNA history one month at a time, highly recommended) and it really doesn't seem to be like that. The guy put in charge of PPVs was also doing WWE's PPVs at the same time, hence the lying about revenue streams and the tonne of cost-cutting before the Panda purchase. That's not to say it was fully a Jeff Jarrett vehicle as much as I guess a company trying to fill the vacuum of the Monday Night Wars ending the saw way the WWA, the XWF etc tried and failed to do.
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Post by James Fabiano on Apr 15, 2022 5:19:12 GMT -5
Does Cody even count as coming from competition? Lashley and Drew spent more time away from WWE than he ever has. WWE considered them competition. They signed a massive amount of talent and paid them to sit at home to keep AEW from being able to use them. The moved their developmental show from the Network to USA to try and hurt AEW ratings. Yet they pretty much hand them talent even now.
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Post by Feyrhausen on Apr 15, 2022 5:35:46 GMT -5
WWE considered them competition. They signed a massive amount of talent and paid them to sit at home to keep AEW from being able to use them. The moved their developmental show from the Network to USA to try and hurt AEW ratings. Yet they pretty much hand them talent even now. WWE went from being obsessed with being the only game in town to being obsessed with the stock price. I still think it has to do with the XFL failing again and Vinces last chance of mainstream acceptance being a master of Wall Street.
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Apr 15, 2022 5:49:35 GMT -5
Booker T had some extremely rough booking, and of course there was that feud with Triple H. The one year run of Goldberg was no great shakes either. With Cody, my guess is that Vince and/or his goons see a lot more in Cody than they did with AJ and know they have to push him as a big star. And at this stage, Cody has been booked a lot stronger than AJ was and has been made to look like a much bigger star. AJ lost to Jericho in his first WM match and has also lost on Free TV, Cody won his against Seth and has yet to lose on Free TV. Biggest difference is that now WWE is no longer the only game in town, and they have to push Cody as a star to show AEW talent that they will be pushed in WWE. WWE didn't have as much incentive to push Styles because the likes of Eric Young and Bobby Roode would still have signed.
Let's also keep in mind AJ started to get a monster push to main events and headline matches after he took Roman to the limit. Cody getting a harder push than Styles would actually bode well for him quite a bit.
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Post by polarbearpete on Apr 15, 2022 6:56:57 GMT -5
I don't know if Jerry and Jeff Jarrett ever commented on it one way or another, but I know that it's been suggested that part of why they even founded TNA was not to give Jeff somewhere to be the main attraction, even if that was part of it. Rather, it was supposedly to try to get it going for a few years and present it to WWE to buy out. The guy they put in charge of PPVs grossly misled Jeff about the revenue stream, leading to racking up debts and needing to sell to Dixie instead, rather than being able to bargain from a strong position with WWE. I have zero idea if that's more than speculation from people, though. Still, had that happened, there is definitely a time period where I could have seen Jeff getting some last run with WWE, and while I don't really picture them putting a world title on him for it, it'd have been quite the alternate history. So I'm listening to a TNA history podcast (You've Got to Be Kidding Me, going through TNA history one month at a time, highly recommended) and it really doesn't seem to be like that. The guy put in charge of PPVs was also doing WWE's PPVs at the same time, hence the lying about revenue streams and the tonne of cost-cutting before the Panda purchase. That's not to say it was fully a Jeff Jarrett vehicle as much as I guess a company trying to fill the vacuum of the Monday Night Wars ending the saw way the WWA, the XWF etc tried and failed to do. I highly recommend the TNA episodes of Jarrett’s My World podcast if you’re interested in TNA’s history as well.
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