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Post by Final Countdown Jones on May 6, 2022 12:49:47 GMT -5
No it wasn't. Sinclair lost tons of money in other ventures that run budgets and costs way higher than anything ROH could ever have dreamt of spending, and ROH was one of the corners cut to make up for that. Well yes all of that is a snowball accumulation and it was reported throughout their closure and sale that continuing during the pandemic was a huge hit for them. These arguments about ROH, AEW, etc that continue to happen in WWE threads are always just deflections from the fact that so many people are bitter about WWE and want others to be bitter to. Problem is that is okay but the same frustration isn't afforded elsewhere. The only mentions of AEW or ROH in this thread have been from people who are deflecting in favour of WWE or want to complain about other sections on this site. Like, you brought up ROH, and even though all I'm talking about is ROH going under because Sinclar lost billions in other ventures and had to downsize, most of your post is still in regards to 'elsewhere' and to stuff that I'm not talking about. The deflection here is from you right now.
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2022 12:53:24 GMT -5
Well yes all of that is a snowball accumulation and it was reported throughout their closure and sale that continuing during the pandemic was a huge hit for them. These arguments about ROH, AEW, etc that continue to happen in WWE threads are always just deflections from the fact that so many people are bitter about WWE and want others to be bitter to. Problem is that is okay but the same frustration isn't afforded elsewhere. The only mentions of AEW or ROH in this thread have been from people who are deflecting in favour of WWE or want to complain about other sections on this site. Like, you brought up ROH, and even though all I'm talking about is ROH going under because Sinclar lost billions in other ventures and had to downsize, most of your post is still in regards to 'elsewhere' and to stuff that I'm not talking about. The deflection here is from you right now. Yeah i never said otherwise? I was badly saying that these threads always divulge into pissing contests because it is so taxing to be a wwe fan right now due to the perceived mcdonalds vs. the little man mentality. Even when actual numbers are presented stupidity ensues on both sides because nothing will ever be enough to gain back the trust apparently. So many people actively watch it, read about it, and live in it just to come and shit on it. Like Joe has said the fans are the worst part about being one right now.
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Post by Final Countdown Jones on May 6, 2022 12:56:16 GMT -5
The only mentions of AEW or ROH in this thread have been from people who are deflecting in favour of WWE or want to complain about other sections on this site. Like, you brought up ROH, and even though all I'm talking about is ROH going under because Sinclar lost billions in other ventures and had to downsize, most of your post is still in regards to 'elsewhere' and to stuff that I'm not talking about. The deflection here is from you right now. Yeah i never said otherwise? I was badly saying that these threads always divulge into pissing contests because it is so taxing to be a wwe fan right now due to the perceived mcdonalds vs. the little man mentality. People like myself are shit on regardless of their opinion even when actual numbers are presented and stupidity ensues on both sides. Like Joe has said the fans are the worst part about being one right now. Right but when the only person with their dick in their hand is the one complaining about it being a pissing contest, they can always just put it away instead.
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2022 12:59:01 GMT -5
Yeah i never said otherwise? I was badly saying that these threads always divulge into pissing contests because it is so taxing to be a wwe fan right now due to the perceived mcdonalds vs. the little man mentality. People like myself are shit on regardless of their opinion even when actual numbers are presented and stupidity ensues on both sides. Like Joe has said the fans are the worst part about being one right now. Right but when the only person with their dick in their hand is the one complaining about it being a pissing contest, they can always just put it away instead. All i said was that ROH took a hit by paying through the pandemic and reiterated the fact that it's hard to have a positive wwe thread as others have stated.
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Post by King Boo on May 6, 2022 13:00:11 GMT -5
I don't really understand why anyone's that emotionally invested on either side? WWE, AEW... it's not like I'm the one seeing the rewards from who's doing better, so
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Post by Feargus McReddit on May 6, 2022 13:01:03 GMT -5
All i said was that ROH took a hit by paying through the pandemic and reiterated the fact that it's hard to have a positive wwe thread as others have stated. That wasn’t what you first said, though. I’m not sure why you’re trying to backtrack so much when I can still see that post.
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Post by J Lee O'Brien on May 6, 2022 13:02:19 GMT -5
I'm saying it is a meaningless number for the purposes of reporting information to shareholders and they should focus on actual metrics that matter for their bottom line. Indeed. As a great example of how irrelevant social media impressions truly are, the #ReleaseTheSnyderCut hashtag had 34.7 billion unique social media impressions, and resulted in HBO Max's least-watched major release. WrestleMania having 2.2 billion social media impressions might sound impressive to an investor with little working knowledge of social media, but when you consider that as much of 60% of traffic on social media is just bots that figure becomes even more meaningless. And there's why they included it. It sounds incredible to WWE's investors. They think that if they're getting that much attention online for Mania, then of course it'll translate to more attendance/merch sales/ratings/subs for Peacock or the international version of the Network. Belief is just as important to fact to a lot of investors.
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2022 13:04:45 GMT -5
All i said was that ROH took a hit by paying through the pandemic and reiterated the fact that it's hard to have a positive wwe thread as others have stated. That wasn’t what you first said, though. I’m not sure why you’re trying to backtrack so much when I can still see that post. Dont think we understand each other either...My statement was that ROH took a hit by paying through the pandemic and that it isn't a typical business move or a smart one...Perceive ethics (if still legal) have nothing to do with business and longevity unfortunately (atleast until the workers finally revolt). I was stating, badly as i said, that these threads always divulge into pissing contests because of the bitterness of both sides then people like myself try to defend wwe (mostly just because through it all we are still fans) and it just gets worse. I don't even know what i am supposedly backtracking on?
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Post by EoE: Well There's Your Problem on May 6, 2022 13:06:47 GMT -5
I’m at the point of being over trying to predict what could take down WWE and when it might happen. It will probably be something entirely random and unforeseen that nobody can predict right now with any logical foundation. Or, if they do, it will be an entirely lucky guess.
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2022 13:07:53 GMT -5
I’m at the point of being over trying to predict what could take down WWE and when it might happen. It will probably be something entirely random and unforeseen that nobody can predict right now with any logical foundation. Or, if they do, it will be an entirely lucky guess. Yeah something that will cause the stocks to plummet and investors to bail. Hard to actually gauge considering things continue to get wilder but profits soar.
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Post by Cyno on May 6, 2022 13:26:35 GMT -5
ROH would still be a Sinclair entity today if the parent corporation didn't completely shit the bed with how hard they bet on RSN's. Their decision to pay their talent through the pandemic is completely irrelevant to why they were sold off.
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2022 13:33:28 GMT -5
ROH would still be a Sinclair entity today if the parent corporation didn't completely shit the bed with how hard they bet on RSN's. Their decision to pay their talent through the pandemic is completely irrelevant to why they were sold off. Absolutely fine (it was reported that it blew their budget though I thought...Certainly wouldnt be the first time I am wrong) I just hate the notion that this should be the norm...Very few companies did this without taking out substantial covid related protection loans. Either way I am done here...At the end of the day I am just glad that WWE is continuing a positive uptrend and will be around for the forseeable future for me to enjoy in a variety of ways and comfortably continue to pass along to my children
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2022 13:56:11 GMT -5
Good for them, I guess.
Still think it's boring as shit to watch, personally.
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Post by Final Countdown Jones on May 6, 2022 14:07:30 GMT -5
Right but when the only person with their dick in their hand is the one complaining about it being a pissing contest, they can always just put it away instead. All i said was that ROH took a hit by paying through the pandemic and reiterated the fact that it's hard to have a positive wwe thread as others have stated. But the problem is that you're talking about comparisons and pissing contests while absolutely misrepresenting what the ROH situation actually was. Sinclair was in full control of Ring of Honor and kept what is said to be incredibly tight grip on their purse strings; if they didn't want them running unticketed shows during the pandemic, they would have said "No, don't do that" earlier on. But Sinclair only ever cared about them as syndication fodder anyway and live shows were never a major part of their earning potential, so they let it keep happening up until Sinclair was suddenly losing lots of money from failed ventures and saw ROH as a corner to be cut. That was the point where they shut the company down and released everyone ahead of them putting it onto the market. Not because of the money losing closed set shows, but because they wanted an IP they could flip. The problem then is that you've misrepresented what happened with ROH, and done so specifically through the lens of using it as a counter-argument in discussion of business ethics. That Ring of Honor did that good thing people are saying WWE could have done and it closed up and got bought out. But that isn't true. You're making an ethical argument with an example that isn't of what you're making it out to be as a defense. And then, after a simple correction, wax on about how arguments about Ring of Honor are just something to deflect from how people hate WWE and want it to fail. You said something that wasn't true and when called on it, suddenly it's about how people always make it about other stuff and it's ruining the WWE section and also you can't get away with this on the AEW section. The deflection was yours. Your complaints are about yourself. It was just a very weird direction to suddenly take things.
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2022 14:34:38 GMT -5
All i said was that ROH took a hit by paying through the pandemic and reiterated the fact that it's hard to have a positive wwe thread as others have stated. But the problem is that you're talking about comparisons and pissing contests while absolutely misrepresenting what the ROH situation actually was. Sinclair was in full control of Ring of Honor and kept what is said to be incredibly tight grip on their purse strings; if they didn't want them running unticketed shows during the pandemic, they would have said "No, don't do that" earlier on. But Sinclair only ever cared about them as syndication fodder anyway and live shows were never a major part of their earning potential, so they let it keep happening up until Sinclair was suddenly losing lots of money from failed ventures and saw ROH as a corner to be cut. That was the point where they shut the company down and released everyone ahead of them putting it onto the market. Not because of the money losing closed set shows, but because they wanted an IP they could flip. The problem then is that you've misrepresented what happened with ROH, and done so specifically through the lens of using it as a counter-argument in discussion of business ethics. That Ring of Honor did that good thing people are saying WWE could have done and it closed up and got bought out. But that isn't true. You're making an ethical argument with an example that isn't of what you're making it out to be as a defense. And then, after a simple correction, wax on about how arguments about Ring of Honor are just something to deflect from how people hate WWE and want it to fail. You said something that wasn't true and when called on it, suddenly it's about how people always make it about other stuff and it's ruining the WWE section and also you can't get away with this on the AEW section. The deflection was yours. Your complaints are about yourself. It was just a very weird direction to suddenly take things. More misinformation on my part then trying to create or change any narrative. I simply didn't know it wasn't true until told. I had read and I believed that they took a financial hit during the pandemic by paying them when they didn't need to and stated that it was silly to do so. I still believe that regardless if they did or not. You guys called me out that i was wrong and I acknowledged it multiple times? Not sure what you asking for? My pissing contest comments are from both sides because any positive thread does end up this way and it was said in the same breath as ROH's decision. I was never using ROH as anything other than saying it is stupid to pay people you wont use out of doing the right thing. I guess at the end of the day I care more for McDonalds than the menu. **** I dont even know anymore as it's become nearly impossible to discuss without gloves up and i will admit that my clueless defensiveness at times only throws fuel on the fire but damn I guess it gets severely depressing to see something you've enjoyed since childhood shit on non stop by your contemporaries. I will work on making better use of my block button instead of my quote or reply button.
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2022 15:37:00 GMT -5
They became a business to business company so ratings being down, fan interest dying etc, doesn't matter anymore. They fan proofed their business, that a long with being the only game in town so long means no matter how bad the show is they'll always have a base. You basically have a company that could air 3 hours of a monkey throwing shit into a basket and they'd sell 40k to their stadium show that month. A lot of those notes kinda indicate that fan interest isn't dying but ok. Yeah. That monkey throwing shit into a basket could easily sell 60K.
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2022 15:40:39 GMT -5
The arguments in this thread are head turning imo. Like, you absolutely know they combined both nights of Mania to say they beat the one night of the Superbowl to conflate to their investors that they are a bigger deal. WrestleMania's social media engagement is half that number if they just go on as normal, and that's not me being a dick, it's simply me stating the obvious, if the Superbowl had a Semi-Final round and then did the actual Superbowl the next day, they'd have double the social numbers too! And the conflating of revenue from all the cutting and bloodletting they've been doing is also being ignored here. They are constantly cutting talent due to "budget cuts" and it continues to look f***ing egregious and gross when they are making "record quarters" like this. They're doing absolutely everything they can to build up this number and keep it high so everyone thinks everything is fine. Note how Mania is the ONLY thing mentioned here, no other PPVs, the TV Shows, nothing, it's Mania's nights, combined into one, to make both relevance and interest in the product imo seem greater than it is, and that's business, it's an investors call, but people in this thread essentially calling others "salty hypocrites" for pointing this shit out doesn't really help the discussion, it only makes it worse, especially for, whatever reason, other wrestling companies are brought in that have literally nothing to do with this, not even from a numbers perspective, just to take potshots at them, yet the people arguing the numbers are a bit fluffed are being labeled the problem here? Idk about that one chief, I know I'm harsh on WWE, but not trusting a company and having very sound reasoning and examples as to why they're doing shit and y'know, not trusting what the company that always lies and bullshits says, seems pretty logical and not from a place of malice. WWE is growing because Nick Khan is shredding anything that isn't worth being kept nailed down and the Saudi Deal absolutely helps continue to buff this shit to the moon, and as was pointed out, there's only so high it can go before it dips, and there's only so long imo, things like the new cheap way to try and make new talents and "Mania level stars" in like half a year, can hold out while they keep finding other ways to cut, and keep that number rising higher. It's not exactly a sustainable system, but who knows if that's the plan, I still have it in the back of my mind that they want WWE's numbers to look and sound as sexy as possible for a potential sale... but who knows. Also lmfao at them getting into NFT's right when they're dying. They sucked and were a giant scam to begin with but lmfao at them having the pulse on trends as always... if they actually go through with that, the "Not doing anything harmful" argument goes out the window... y'know if you also ignore the Saudi deal also just always consistently being pretty damn unethical too lol This has nothing to do with talent though regardless of everyone's own ethical perception of how a business should be run. Companies rarely pay people out of goodwill and turn a profit...That mindset is one of the reasons ROH failed. It is nearly impossible to still be a wwe fan in most places on social media when just a few years ago it was fun to be a fan. *cough*Bally Sports *cough*
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2022 15:56:48 GMT -5
Some mega salty takes in this threaf It's so annoying tbh. This is such an innocuous thread and just people trying to shit on numbers that honestly you can't shit on. WWE is doing really well this quarter and Wrestlemania was a huge success. Are they giving you some numbers that make them look good? Um yeah, it's a corporate investor call. Every public corporation does this. It's business. It's so annoying that literally, every thread on this board has to be people just constantly shitting on WWE. But if you did the exact same thing on the AEW board, and talked any amount of shit about their product or ratings, you'd be called a troll or whatever. I bitch about WWE and AEW. The difference is AEW fans are more passionate because they haven't been beaten down by a company telling them how stupid they are for liking something different than what is on television and that they need to eat this burnt hamburger and call it a lasagna. ... Why did I get involved? I could have ignored this but I had to say something.
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Post by Loser troll. Please ban me on May 6, 2022 16:47:37 GMT -5
They became a business to business company so ratings being down, fan interest dying etc, doesn't matter anymore. They fan proofed their business, that a long with being the only game in town so long means no matter how bad the show is they'll always have a base. You basically have a company that could air 3 hours of a monkey throwing shit into a basket and they'd sell 40k to their stadium show that month. I've long petitioned that the article about 'Too big to fail' on Wikipedia should be amended to have WWE as an exception. They will never lose, ever. period. full stop. I wish I was smart enough to have a business model like the E
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Post by 1 Free Moon-Down with Burger on May 6, 2022 18:30:51 GMT -5
I don't really understand why anyone's that emotionally invested on either side? WWE, AEW... it's not like I'm the one seeing the rewards from who's doing better, so I mean. I’m literally invested in the company. So….. f*** yeah. There’s a reason there’s two W’s in the name cuz we keep winnin.
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