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Post by Saiyanic Panic on Dec 3, 2022 7:37:32 GMT -5
I selfishly want this to bomb (i.e. not make all the money, up to and including the small change in my couch and under my car seat) like you wouldn't believe.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2022 13:21:56 GMT -5
It will be interesting to see how it does. Avatar 3 is about 95% completed and 4 sounds to have 25-50% of principle photography done.
So regardless we are stuck with more Avatar for the next few years. If it flops it will be a Fantastic Beasts stituation, where people kept getting movies in a giant film franchise nobody actually wanted.
Unless there’s some unprecedented Warner Brothers cancellation nonsense, which they won’t do to James Cameron.
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Post by Mighty Attack Tribble on Dec 11, 2022 14:30:58 GMT -5
Insecure much?
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Post by "Cane Dewey" Johnson on Dec 11, 2022 15:27:49 GMT -5
www.independent.ie/entertainment/movies/james-cameron-plays-a-high-stakes-game-with-avatar-sequel-42205811.htmlPiggybacking on this quote, although I think the whole article is worth a read, so check it out--where did this (dopey) idea on the internet come from that box-office blockbusters must have some kind of cultural, real-world impact? Wakanda Forever, to take a recent example, is still in theatres at the moment and making money, but I doubt people will talk about it come next year the same way people still talk about the first Black Panther movie from 4 years ago. I'm unsure whether recency bias will even keep Wakanda Forever at the forefront of people's memories by next December. The same could be said for movies like Thor 4, Doctor Strange 2 (and Doctor Strange 1), Eternals, Black Widow, Spider-Man: Far from Home, Antman and the Wasp, maybe Captain Marvel, and perhaps Captain America: Civil War. What were the cultural, real-world impacts of these movies, precisely? This isn't even exclusive or specific to the MCU. Star Wars, Harry Potter, the Fast and the Furious, Jurassic Park, Transformers, Bad Boys, Shrek--all franchises with sequels that made hundreds, if not billions, of dollars, yet those specific movies that made all that money come and go like farts in the wind, culturally speaking. Yet people like to single out Avatar as a movie, which came out 13 years ago, that supposedly nobody talks about, but nobody can actually stop talking about. Up until The Way of Water, the biggest difference between Avatar 1 and these other movie franchises that Avatar had not yet been turned into a sequel/universe farm. Most top-earning movies over the past 20-30 years gets a sequel or is made into a franchise inevitably. (Still waiting for Titanic 2!) As a result, the very existence of The Way of Water as a sequel, as a potential franchise launcher, as another Disney tentpole, will (finally) prove people on the internet right, that Avatar no longer has any cultural, real-world impact, if only because Avatar is no longer exceptional as movie that didn't have, and didn't need to have, a follow-up story. Additionally, although The Way of Water will likely make lots of money, it won't make all the money, and it'll be deemed a failure within the context of the current movie mediascape and economic environment, which will be used to suggest that Avatar 1 should have never been successful in the first place, probably.
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Post by Mighty Attack Tribble on Dec 11, 2022 15:57:58 GMT -5
It's absolutely hyperbole to say Avatar had no cultural impact.
But what was Avatar's cultural impact? It kicked off the 3D revival fad and that really is about it.
Say what you will about Marvel, DC, Harry Potter, Star Wars, etc., but you cannot escape their continued influence in pop culture.
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Post by xCompackx on Dec 11, 2022 16:21:49 GMT -5
Avatar was a visually impressive movie with a by-the-numbers plot that's been done before a few times in better ways and made the mistake of solving everything it needed to in the first film. It's not that it didn't have an impact, it's just the impact it had was short-lived.
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Post by Baldobomb-22-OH-MAN!!! on Dec 11, 2022 18:26:02 GMT -5
*Glares at James Cameron* I KNOW WHAT YOU DID!!!
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Post by Koda, Master Crunchyroller on Dec 11, 2022 18:38:50 GMT -5
www.independent.ie/entertainment/movies/james-cameron-plays-a-high-stakes-game-with-avatar-sequel-42205811.htmlPiggybacking on this quote, although I think the whole article is worth a read, so check it out--where did this (dopey) idea on the internet come from that box-office blockbusters must have some kind of cultural, real-world impact? Wakanda Forever, to take a recent example, is still in theatres at the moment and making money, but I doubt people will talk about it come next year the same way people still talk about the first Black Panther movie from 4 years ago. I'm unsure whether recency bias will even keep Wakanda Forever at the forefront of people's memories by next December. The same could be said for movies like Thor 4, Doctor Strange 2 (and Doctor Strange 1), Eternals, Black Widow, Spider-Man: Far from Home, Antman and the Wasp, maybe Captain Marvel, and perhaps Captain America: Civil War. What were the cultural, real-world impacts of these movies, precisely? This isn't even exclusive or specific to the MCU. Star Wars, Harry Potter, the Fast and the Furious, Jurassic Park, Transformers, Bad Boys, Shrek--all franchises with sequels that made hundreds, if not billions, of dollars, yet those specific movies that made all that money come and go like farts in the wind, culturally speaking. Yet people like to single out Avatar as a movie, which came out 13 years ago, that supposedly nobody talks about, but nobody can actually stop talking about. Up until The Way of Water, the biggest difference between Avatar 1 and these other movie franchises that Avatar had not yet been turned into a sequel/universe farm. Most top-earning movies over the past 20-30 years gets a sequel or is made into a franchise inevitably. (Still waiting for Titanic 2!) As a result, the very existence of The Way of Water as a sequel, as a potential franchise launcher, as another Disney tentpole, will (finally) prove people on the internet right, that Avatar no longer has any cultural, real-world impact, if only because Avatar is no longer exceptional as movie that didn't have, and didn't need to have, a follow-up story. Additionally, although The Way of Water will likely make lots of money, it won't make all the money, and it'll be deemed a failure within the context of the current movie mediascape and economic environment, which will be used to suggest that Avatar 1 should have never been successful in the first place, probably. When people say “cultural impact” and then list off the properties that supposedly do have it, they only ever seem to list off major franchises that conditioned audiences into becoming brand loyal financial livestock to. But many of these same series, while yes, often really fun, are also often really vapid things that don’t really push the medium forward. In fact I dare say in the case of the MCU it has actually harmed cinematic storytelling because now every god damned thing has to be shared universes to even hope to compete.
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Post by Citizen Snips Has Left on Dec 11, 2022 19:14:49 GMT -5
I’m hoping it’s not the case but I just saw an ad that seemed to indicate the movie is basically “Uh-oh, the humans are back for more…let’s fight in the water this time!”, your standard sequel. Again, hoping it was just a poorly done ad because I didn’t mind the first one but I don’t really need to sit through a longer clone of it.
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Burst
El Dandy
*inarticulate squawking*
Posts: 8,599
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Post by Burst on Dec 11, 2022 20:11:10 GMT -5
I'm trying to remember how much of a toy-level merchandise push there was with the original flick... I don't remember seeing toys out at all, whereas now I've already seen a fairly aggressive push in the toy aisles in the gear up for the holidays.
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Post by Mighty Attack Tribble on Dec 11, 2022 20:11:15 GMT -5
I’m hoping it’s not the case but I just saw an ad that seemed to indicate the movie is basically “Uh-oh, the humans are back for more…let’s fight in the water this time!”, your standard sequel. Again, hoping it was just a poorly done ad because I didn’t mind the first one but I don’t really need to sit through a longer clone of it. To be fair, most reviews say it stands apart from the first movie. They also say it has most of the same problems the first movie had, chiefly the story being an afterthought to the action and visuals... which we pretty much all expected.
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Post by xCompackx on Dec 11, 2022 21:19:48 GMT -5
I'm still kind of stuck on the movie needing to make $2 Billion to break even. I would call bullshit on that if Avengers Endgame needed that amount of money to recoup losses, let alone Avatar.
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Post by Non Banjoble Tokens on Dec 12, 2022 2:00:11 GMT -5
Still waiting for that influx of Blue Catgirl fetishists. I should buy an astronaut costume just in case.
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schma
Hank Scorpio
Posts: 6,805
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Post by schma on Dec 12, 2022 9:31:21 GMT -5
I think part of the reason you see talk about its impact or relevance or whatnot is the fact that they announced almost from Day one a plan to have multiple sequels. At the time that made sense because they'd just raked in a buttload of cash. However, it's been 13 years. Every so often we'd be reminded oh yeah, Avatar is a thing that exists and is maybe getting sequels?
If they had managed sequels even say 2-3 years after the first, the discourse would be quite different. Everyone would still point out the super basic story but they wouldn't have these other talking points as James Cameron does his best to convince us his movies are still relevant in some way.
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Post by Finish Uncle Muffin’s Story on Dec 12, 2022 9:37:57 GMT -5
I feel like the narrative a lot of people have thrown out lately is: "Guys, Avatar had a huge fanbase. You're just not remembering it right" and so the movie will make billions of dollars.
My counter to that is that it made that nearly fifteen years ago. It was a first-of-its-kind movie at that point in terms of the visual effects and was arguably one of the first real CGI spectacle films out there.
Today, there's just so much to see that I don't see how it has the same kind of run. Maybe I'm wrong and it's a Top Gun level event, but I just don't see people as excited for this one. I don't think it'll be a disaster or anything, but I think Cameron and others are grossly overstating the movie's relevance. In my world, people are far more excited for Ant-Man, Flash and GOTG over Avatar. I suspect DC/Marvel have killed Avatar. We'll see.
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Post by Cyno on Dec 12, 2022 18:47:48 GMT -5
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Dec 12, 2022 20:13:48 GMT -5
They are saying the movie stands to get $150M minimum opening weekend and with a release in China it increases chance of seeing a profit but def got to wonder how far word of mouth will travel for this to hit profit threshold
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Post by Mighty Attack Tribble on Dec 13, 2022 16:58:58 GMT -5
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Post by The Dark Order Inferno on Dec 14, 2022 7:45:53 GMT -5
I'm trying to remember how much of a toy-level merchandise push there was with the original flick... I don't remember seeing toys out at all, whereas now I've already seen a fairly aggressive push in the toy aisles in the gear up for the holidays. Mattel had the license and the toys they put out were kind of a flop, in terms of sales and quality. One of those weird tech gimmick oriented lines like the Phantom Menace where nobody wanted the toys for that, so all it did was eat into the budget for paint and articulation.
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pinja
Unicron
Posts: 3,006
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Post by pinja on Dec 14, 2022 8:36:11 GMT -5
I've never cared about the first, but have read good things about this one. Lots of buildup to make the viewer care about what is going to happen. Which pretty much sounds like Cameron. Titanic was expected to become a failure until it didn't.
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