Kalmia
King Koopa
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Post by Kalmia on May 12, 2022 20:55:33 GMT -5
It was a fun match, but I think too many high spots can reduce the impact of them and that's what happened in this match. With no real connecting story other than "these guys are crazy, watch them be crazy" the spots just detracted from each other instead of building and enhancing what was happening.
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Post by King Boo on May 12, 2022 20:57:54 GMT -5
You put words in a widow's mouth, suggesting you knew how she felt watching a match with high spots in it, and what she was absolutely ok and not ok with seeing like you were sitting right next to her. Doubling down on that seems more tone deaf than anything, imo. Owen Hart's death had nothing to do with high spots, at all, so as was said in the live thread, the pearl clutching for someone else about this is way more off-putting to me than anything I saw in that match. You always have to tell people why their opinions are wrong, don’t you? You’re annoying AF mate. Stop quoting me. Stop replying to me. Please and thank you. This is something we're not going to do. Block if you must, but you do not get to rudely tell other posters what they can post about. And this is just a general statment for anyone who needs it: I'm not one who watches wrestling anymore and I have absolutely no dog in any of these races, but as an "outsider" I can see how a lot of people have been acting and reacting lately, and it's getting increasingly more personal in an increasingly more public way. It's just wrestling, so chill the f*** out. If you can't do that, I suggest you take a breather and come back to the board when you're in a better place.
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Blade
Don Corleone
Posts: 1,943
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Post by Blade on May 12, 2022 21:51:50 GMT -5
On the Martha Hart thing... I won't lie, I did wonder "is this week the most appropriate time to do this match?", and I did notice AEW stopped showing her reactions midway through the show (though that may well be because she didn't look especially comfortable having the camera on her repeatedly).
I don't want to crap on people for being concerned, because I think it comes out of a place of genuinely caring that it might have given Martha and her family bad connotations. But I also agree that people are right: this was not the same kind of spot at all, and I have to imagine Khan (and possibly Jeff and Darby as well) would have made sure she was comfortable with it.
Moreover, the whole reason she was here is because the Owen Tournament is a celebration of Owen's life and career as a wrestler, and a way to give back to the fans that loved him but are hampered in having a real tribute up until now by the situation with WWE. Focusing on his tragic death is, in a way, going against what the tournament is all about. Owen is more than the last moments of his life; he was also a pioneering high flyer who many wrestlers took inspiration from.
So, as I said, I don't think people concerned with it being inappropriate are coming from a bad place. But I think it behooves them to step back and realise everyone in AEW is much more closely connected to that than we are, professionally and in some cases personally, and go "If they're okay with it, then it's appropriate."
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Mozenrath
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Post by Mozenrath on May 13, 2022 0:57:58 GMT -5
It was a fun match, but I think too many high spots can reduce the impact of them and that's what happened in this match. With no real connecting story other than "these guys are crazy, watch them be crazy" the spots just detracted from each other instead of building and enhancing what was happening. I think it's sort of like what would have happened if we had gotten Sting vs. Undertaker, where the reality of the match wouldn't have fit what some people would have desired from it. I get the natural impulse people have to compare Darby and Jeff, and why the match was structured like them trying to out-crazy each other, but I think part of why it was kind of gimmicky is because, in addition to Jeff needing some carrying at this stage of his career to hide his weaknesses, Darby is just... not really THAT much like Jeff. He honestly has considerably more in common with Mankind, in my opinion. I'd even argue he has more wrestling DNA with Bret Hart than he does Jeff. They had Darby leaning into what he does share with Jeff, and it limited the match, though I get the feeling that wasn't that big a concern since they preferred giving people the wreckage they wanted, instead. Makes sense, but it isn't what I'd have picked.
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Post by lavelleuk22 on May 13, 2022 3:59:38 GMT -5
I thought it was a fantastic match, great spotfest and both guys looked like they loved doing it. They both basically said in promos that they are going out there with the goal of just destroying each other with crazy stunts. They both love that stuff as characters so for me the spotfest worked in kayfabe too, sometimes guys say they'll wrestle a clean match, shake hands etc and they do
These too said let's go out there to get crazy and kill ourselves and whoever can out crazy the other can advance, that's what they did
Darby reminded me of Mick Foley in that match. Mick in the 90's had so many matches where he was like "how do I make this memorable" then destroyed his body to make it memorable, and often to disguise his or his opponents limitations. Jeff can't go like he used to, so Darby did the flying, Darby let Jeff sell to rest whilst he set stuff up, and Jeff did what Jeff does and was there for the spots.
Two great wrestlers had a great professional wrestling match and both seemed to walk away fine without injury, it's all good
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Post by lavelleuk22 on May 13, 2022 4:04:42 GMT -5
It was a fun match, but I think too many high spots can reduce the impact of them and that's what happened in this match. With no real connecting story other than "these guys are crazy, watch them be crazy" the spots just detracted from each other instead of building and enhancing what was happening. I think it's sort of like what would have happened if we had gotten Sting vs. Undertaker, where the reality of the match wouldn't have fit what some people would have desired from it. I get the natural impulse people have to compare Darby and Jeff, and why the match was structured like them trying to out-crazy each other, but I think part of why it was kind of gimmicky is because, in addition to Jeff needing some carrying at this stage of his career to hide his weaknesses, Darby is just... not really THAT much like Jeff. He honestly has considerably more in common with Mankind, in my opinion. I'd even argue he has more wrestling DNA with Bret Hart than he does Jeff. They had Darby leaning into what he does share with Jeff, and it limited the match, though I get the feeling that wasn't that big a concern since they preferred giving people the wreckage they wanted, instead. Makes sense, but it isn't what I'd have picked. I hadn't realised there was a second page to this thread lol Sorry to double post but I just saw your Mankind comparison just after I said Darby reminded me of Mick Foley, glad I'm not the only one who feels that way!
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Kalmia
King Koopa
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Post by Kalmia on May 13, 2022 5:07:32 GMT -5
It was a fun match, but I think too many high spots can reduce the impact of them and that's what happened in this match. With no real connecting story other than "these guys are crazy, watch them be crazy" the spots just detracted from each other instead of building and enhancing what was happening. I think it's sort of like what would have happened if we had gotten Sting vs. Undertaker, where the reality of the match wouldn't have fit what some people would have desired from it. I get the natural impulse people have to compare Darby and Jeff, and why the match was structured like them trying to out-crazy each other, but I think part of why it was kind of gimmicky is because, in addition to Jeff needing some carrying at this stage of his career to hide his weaknesses, Darby is just... not really THAT much like Jeff. He honestly has considerably more in common with Mankind, in my opinion. I'd even argue he has more wrestling DNA with Bret Hart than he does Jeff. They had Darby leaning into what he does share with Jeff, and it limited the match, though I get the feeling that wasn't that big a concern since they preferred giving people the wreckage they wanted, instead. Makes sense, but it isn't what I'd have picked. Yeah, Darby is at his best when he's getting his ass kicked and pops up with something crazy out of desperation. Not when the crazy moves are his go-to. He's a good mat wrestler too, so his best matches tend to be a mix of wrestling, heat segments, and highspots, like the MJF one. Having a match that is only highspots doesn't do Darby any favors.
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The Ichi
Patti Mayonnaise
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Posts: 37,304
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Post by The Ichi on May 13, 2022 5:17:32 GMT -5
Awesome match, though I did wonder why a tournament match became an anything goes spotfest lol.
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on May 13, 2022 5:26:07 GMT -5
Awesome match, though I did wonder why a tournament match became an anything goes spotfest lol. I think they said it in their hype promo that "In order for this to be the true dream match people want, we need to be allowed to go all out" and then Excalibue said Khan granted their wish, which was neat.
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Post by Celexa Bliss 54 on May 13, 2022 6:46:07 GMT -5
I wasn't a big fan of the match, but the Martha Hart concern trolling is even worse. This. Look, yeah, the optics were less than... well, optimal, but none of us here (at least to my knowledge) are Martha Hart, nor do any of us know her. We don't know how she felt about this match. She may have given it her blessing. She may not have given two shits about it either. I joked in the thread about how she looked annoyed by the time the second Owen match came up, but I don't know that she was, nor do I know why. It's different to joke that she looked bored, than it is to say, "Martha hated the show!" We can't speak for her, nor should any of us speak for her. If she had a problem with the match, I'm sure we'll get about twenty exaggerated newz stories and one real story telling us so.
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Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on May 13, 2022 7:19:49 GMT -5
I wasn't a big fan of the match, but the Martha Hart concern trolling is even worse. This. Look, yeah, the optics were less than... well, optimal, but none of us here (at least to my knowledge) are Martha Hart, nor do any of us know her. We don't know how she felt about this match. She may have given it her blessing. She may not have given two shits about it either. I joked in the thread about how she looked annoyed by the time the second Owen match came up, but I don't know that she was, nor do I know why. It's different to joke that she looked bored, than it is to say, "Martha hated the show!" We can't speak for her, nor should any of us speak for her. If she had a problem with the match, I'm sure we'll get about twenty exaggerated newz stories and one real story telling us so. I was under the impression that she never liked wrestling even when with Owen. Like, just not a fan
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