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Post by lucastyler on Sept 29, 2022 12:46:37 GMT -5
What's more the undercurrent of men bashing and especially taking swipes at so called "basement dwelling nerds" the people who's hard earned money is the very reason there is an MCU to begin with, leaves me cold and to be honest offended. I can see from the posts in here though that some people are actually enjoying the show and getting a kick out of the attacks on fandom which is quite puzzling to be honest and clearly not a good business model for the MCU. The show is taking shots at the types of people who leech off the popularity of the MCU and other big IP, namely the (primarily) YouTube grifters who post videos with thumbnails like this: They and their substantial audiences are the kinds of people Marvel are quite openly mocking, because why bother trying to appease people who have no interest In being appeased? Or, worse, appease those who would rather have female characters reduced to little more than background eye candy and POC and minority characters all but eliminated? If they have substantial followings then Marvel shouldn't be going out of their way to piss off their own audience. I don't think attacking the fandom is smart and neither do I think constantly changing the source material is a wise move. Things are popular for a reason. I also think you are greatly exaggerating the reason why those people make those videos. It's often nothing to do with female characters or POC but more the diviation from the source material but thats a whole different topic.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 29, 2022 12:52:37 GMT -5
If they have substantial followings then Marvel shouldn't be going out of their way to piss off their own audience. I don't think attacking the fandom is smart and neither do I think constantly changing the source material is a wise move. Things are popular for a reason. I also think you are greatly exaggerating the reason why those people make those videos. It's often nothing to do with female characters or POC but more the diviation from the source material but thats a whole different topic. They're charlatans and trolls who make their living off outrage bait. They absolutely deserve to be mocked. As for deviation from the source material... the source material retcons itself at least twice every decade anyway, so that's a pretty flat argument.
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Sept 29, 2022 12:52:47 GMT -5
They make those videos for outrage clicks and the ad revenue that brings. That's it.
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Post by lucastyler on Sept 29, 2022 12:57:27 GMT -5
If they have substantial followings then Marvel shouldn't be going out of their way to piss off their own audience. I don't think attacking the fandom is smart and neither do I think constantly changing the source material is a wise move. Things are popular for a reason. I also think you are greatly exaggerating the reason why those people make those videos. It's often nothing to do with female characters or POC but more the diviation from the source material but thats a whole different topic. They're charlatans and trolls who make their living off outrage bait. They absolutely deserve to be mocked. As for deviation from the source material... the source material retcons itself at least twice every decade anyway, so that's a pretty flat argument. Well people are always going to prefer what they prefer and certain things have been well established for decades. I don't begrudge anyone feeling disappointed when an adaption changes things, especially when they have been a fan of that particular character or story for a significant portion of their life. Anyway like I said whole different topic.
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Sept 29, 2022 12:58:22 GMT -5
Also thematically this show is SO much like the source material they're drawing from.
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Post by thechase on Sept 29, 2022 12:58:29 GMT -5
I mean, the thing about the grifters is that they do have a strong case for being somewhat right even if they're obviously doing it for clicks and are prejudiced. They're tapping into a sentiment that's already there and has been boiling over for a while, even dating back to before Endgame.
Ask a number of people and they're wising up to the reality The MCU is just trash these days, is that because of the female leads? No, it's because the writing is abysmal and every character is played for laughs with minimal risk or tension in the storytelling. This is a problem the MCU have had long before it became popular to call it out on this.
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Post by Rolent Tex on Sept 29, 2022 12:59:08 GMT -5
If they have substantial followings then Marvel shouldn't be going out of their way to piss off their own audience. I don't think attacking the fandom is smart and neither do I think constantly changing the source material is a wise move. Things are popular for a reason. I also think you are greatly exaggerating the reason why those people make those videos. It's often nothing to do with female characters or POC but more the diviation from the source material but thats a whole different topic. They're charlatans and trolls who make their living off outrage bait. They absolutely deserve to be mocked. As for deviation from the source material... the source material retcons itself at least twice every decade anyway, so that's a pretty flat argument. Marvel has ruined the so called source material worse than the MCU could ever dream of. How many times in the past decade have they dicked around with retconning the origins of Iron Man, Thor and Cap?
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Post by jimmyjackezekiel on Sept 29, 2022 13:03:23 GMT -5
They're charlatans and trolls who make their living off outrage bait. They absolutely deserve to be mocked. As for deviation from the source material... the source material retcons itself at least twice every decade anyway, so that's a pretty flat argument. Marvel has ruined the so called source material worse than the MCU could ever dream of. How many times in the past decade have they dicked around with retconning the origins of Iron Man, Thor and Cap? So because comic writers do something similar, the MCU can do it as well, and it's not wrong? I strongly disagree, when the comics do it, it's wrong, and when the MCU does it, it is no less wrong.
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Post by Mighty Attack Tribble on Sept 29, 2022 13:08:00 GMT -5
If they have substantial followings then Marvel shouldn't be going out of their way to piss off their own audience. I don't think attacking the fandom is smart and neither do I think constantly changing the source material is a wise move. Things are popular for a reason. Are you really a fan of something if your fandom depends on the exclusion of other fans? As for changing the source material, based on sales figures alone about 95% of the MCU's audience do not read comic books, and Marvel Studio's MO has always been to pick and choose elements from the source material to create something new rather than make 100% faithful adaptations. I also think you are greatly exaggerating the reason why those people make those videos. It's often nothing to do with female characters or POC but more the diviation from the source material but thats a whole different topic. Sure, and GamerGate was all about ethics in video game journalism. These channels exist for one reason and one reason only. Back when the MCU was packed to the rafters with straight white male heroes they had nothing to say. In fact, a lot of them straight up didn't exist, and didn't begin appear and begin gaining audiences until Marvel and other IPs began diversifying their output.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 29, 2022 13:08:30 GMT -5
They're charlatans and trolls who make their living off outrage bait. They absolutely deserve to be mocked. As for deviation from the source material... the source material retcons itself at least twice every decade anyway, so that's a pretty flat argument. Marvel has ruined the so called source material worse than the MCU could ever dream of. How many times in the past decade have they dicked around with retconning the origins of Iron Man, Thor and Cap? Comics in general from the big 2 absolutely require some canon dickery in order to remain halfway functional, especially as it relates to the timescale. Unless we're still going to somehow roll with the fact that Reed Richards and Ben Grimm are WWII vets, pushing the limits of Magneto being able to have been in a concentration camp without being absolutely elderly, that kind of thing. Hell, for that matter... the OG retcon is probably "Flash of Two Worlds!" which gave the DC Universe the multiverse to play with. They've been tapping that well like it's been going out of style for over 60 years now. While we're at it, you read any Superman in the past couple of years? Doomsday Clock retcons a looooooot Superman lore. I won't spoil it in the off chance someone's been interested and just hasn't read it yet, but take it from me... getting wrapped up in canon too hard is a great way to ruin your fandom. Now, back to the MCU and canon adaptation. I can't imagine what a task it is to condense 60 (sometimes more than that) years worth of something 2.5 hour movie. I just can't. The MCU hits the broad strokes and modernizes when appropriate or necessary. It's honestly kind of a miracle they pull it off as well as they do.
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Sept 29, 2022 13:15:17 GMT -5
When I was a kid Spidey shared an apartment with Iceman and Firewtar in a cartoon and Hulk was a bodybuilder in green paint that mostly fought like loan sharks and shit.
They're adaptations. I love the comics, but source material ain't holy writ. You can like or dislike whatever adaptation.
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Post by jimmyjackezekiel on Sept 29, 2022 13:15:31 GMT -5
Magneto being a concentration camp survivor is an easy fix.
1: He has been de-aged at least once in the comic timeline.
2: Just pull a Wolverine and add slowed aging to his powerset.
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Post by jimmyjackezekiel on Sept 29, 2022 13:19:06 GMT -5
When I was a kid Spidey shared an apartment with Iceman and Firewtar in a cartoon and Hulk was a bodybuilder in green paint that mostly fought like loan sharks and shit. They're adaptations. I love the comics, but source material ain't holy writ. You can like or dislike whatever adaptation. There's a bit of a difference between that, and She-Hulk trying to gatekeep trauma over the cousin that watched half the universe die partly because of his own fault, and lost two close friends trying to fix that mistake.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 29, 2022 13:29:36 GMT -5
Magneto being a concentration camp survivor is an easy fix. 1: He has been de-aged at least once in the comic timeline. 2: Just pull a Wolverine and add slowed aging to his powerset. But since the second option isn't part of his powerset, wouldn't that be a retcon? That's what I mean. You can get bogged down in this stuff and it just ruins your enjoyment. The X-men being mired in its own batshit crazy canon is exactly why I gave up on it.
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Post by jimmyjackezekiel on Sept 29, 2022 13:32:23 GMT -5
Magneto being a concentration camp survivor is an easy fix. 1: He has been de-aged at least once in the comic timeline. 2: Just pull a Wolverine and add slowed aging to his powerset. But since the second option isn't part of his powerset, wouldn't that be a retcon? That's what I mean. You can get bogged down in this stuff and it just ruins your enjoyment. The X-men being mired in its own batshit crazy canon is exactly why I gave up on it. a minor one. Yes. But it's not that big deal. It's not like "Scarlett Witch is no longer his daughter or even a Mutant after 30 years of pretending so, even if it retroactively makes many of the old storylines especially House of M completely pointless"
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Post by Cyno on Sept 29, 2022 13:34:47 GMT -5
If they have substantial followings then Marvel shouldn't be going out of their way to piss off their own audience. I don't think attacking the fandom is smart and neither do I think constantly changing the source material is a wise move. Things are popular for a reason. I also think you are greatly exaggerating the reason why those people make those videos. It's often nothing to do with female characters or POC but more the diviation from the source material but thats a whole different topic. . Your mask is starting to come off.
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Sept 29, 2022 13:35:42 GMT -5
When I was a kid Spidey shared an apartment with Iceman and Firewtar in a cartoon and Hulk was a bodybuilder in green paint that mostly fought like loan sharks and shit. They're adaptations. I love the comics, but source material ain't holy writ. You can like or dislike whatever adaptation. There's a bit of a difference between that, and She-Hulk trying to gatekeep trauma over the cousin that watched half the universe die partly because of his own fault, and lost two close friends trying to fix that mistake. Ok, but that has nothing to do with the source material argument. Was that awkwardly written? Yep.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 29, 2022 13:38:44 GMT -5
When I was a kid Spidey shared an apartment with Iceman and Firewtar in a cartoon and Hulk was a bodybuilder in green paint that mostly fought like loan sharks and shit. They're adaptations. I love the comics, but source material ain't holy writ. You can like or dislike whatever adaptation. There's a bit of a difference between that, and She-Hulk trying to gatekeep trauma over the cousin that watched half the universe die partly because of his own fault, and lost two close friends trying to fix that mistake. What in the heck does that have to do with canon compared to the comics?
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Post by jimmyjackezekiel on Sept 29, 2022 13:42:05 GMT -5
There's a bit of a difference between that, and She-Hulk trying to gatekeep trauma over the cousin that watched half the universe die partly because of his own fault, and lost two close friends trying to fix that mistake. What in the heck does that have to do with canon compared to the comics? well I doubt Comic She-Hulk would be that tone-deaf. At least prior to the 2010s.
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Post by Feyrhausen on Sept 29, 2022 13:42:31 GMT -5
So you are mostly aware of She Hulk in stories where she is not the focus, only as part of a team or group? Correct So you are not familiar with stories about her and her supporting cast and want to complain that a series where she and they are the main focus? Yes that's the show we are discussing [/quote] And you complain that she is not kicking ass? [/quote] I know right, in a show called She Hulk, crazy to expect more ass kicking, forgive me. [/quote] Did you hate half of Daredevils series when he is doing lawyer stuff?[/quote] Absolutely not that was compelling, do you find the lawyer stuff here to be of the same standard? [/quote] Only men being bashed are whiny internet incel losers. And maybe frat boy magicians. As another poster stated you ignore all of the positive men on the show.[/quote] Perhaps it's because the majority of men being portrayed are coming across like that, I dunno seems a bit too full on for me. If the gender roles in the show were flipped and all the women were portrayed in that way what do you think the reaction would be? Seriously imagine it for a moment, sure there have been some positive male characters I guess but heck we just had Josh turn heel so who knows. [/quote] And you sound like Star Trek “fans” who complain about the recent stars and Star Trek going “woke”.[/quote] Not a Star Trek fan, but I can tell you my Trekkie friends all hold DS9 in the highest regard, remember the one with Sisko as the lead? [/quote] When the show was always “woke”, always making statements, always about something. MCU and movies/tv have always had messages. Those can just be digested better by some people when there is a straight, white man as the main character. [/quote] Brilliant, I didn't use the term woke nor bring race into it at all. Do you even know my ethnicity? What my favorite shows are? What movies I like? So because I have issues with this show I must immediately be some basement dwelling white guy who hates anything with women and POC. I think you have basically shown the issue I have with where modern entertainment is going. We can't even debate the good and bad of the show without questioning someones reasons being political. We gotta immediatel assume they only enjoy things with white straight men as the main character. Anyway back to the show, gotta admit episode 7 got a few laughs outta me. Still feel this show was a massive missed opportunity though. [/quote] Who brought race into it? You. I simply use Star Trek and "fans" complaining about it becoming "woke" to point out that you complain about something changing that was always there. Specifically shows being more than entertainment. Shows being about something more is nothing new. One of She Hulks messages is about being a modern woman and dealing with toxic men.
Dardevil was a much better lawyer show than She Hulk. It was also an hour drama not a half hour sitcom. The Practice was also a better lawyer show than Trial and Error. T&E and She Hulk are also much funnier though.
As for the portrayal of men seems true to life to me. Lots of decent ones out there but the loud, obnoxious, toxic ones make themselves the center of attention.
And back to first complaint. You complaint boils down to She Hulk is not being portrayed as essentially a supporting character in someone elses story, in her own series.
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