ASYLUMHAUSEN
Fry's dog Seymour
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Post by ASYLUMHAUSEN on Jun 19, 2022 21:54:35 GMT -5
Shawn Michaels, Rey Mysterio, Daniel Bryan, & Chris Jericho among others have held all been world champions despite not being the tallest people in the world You don’t need to be a giant to hold the top belt for a wrestling company - that out of date mind set is from the 1980’s *Bret Hart has entered the chat*
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Post by ThankGodForSidJustice on Jun 19, 2022 22:01:17 GMT -5
The problem with Adam Cole isn't his size as much as it is he has like no muscle definition whatsoever. I'm not a size mark where I think you have to be 6'4" or whatever and jacked to the gills to be in the business but I think you should at least try to look the part somewhat. There's a lot of smaller guys in AEW but they still look like actual athletes. They look believable. They look like they could kick someone's ass. I don't see that with Cole. Obviously you can't do anything about your height but you can do something about your physique and to me it looks like he's not making enough effort about that.
In his defense though every company he goes to pushes the hell out of him. It's clearly not an issue for them so in that case then I guess why bother putting the work in at the gym if it doesn't matter. Unless I guess if it's going to lead to problems with injuries like Booker thinks.
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Wieners=$$$
Hank Scorpio
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Post by Wieners=$$$ on Jun 19, 2022 22:01:52 GMT -5
BOOKER: And Orange Cassidy needs to juice! Quack-Quack, Sucka!
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Post by kingoftheindies on Jun 19, 2022 22:02:55 GMT -5
The problem with Adam Cole isn't his size as much as it is he has like no muscle definition whatsoever. I'm not a size mark where I think you have to be 6'4" or whatever and jacked to the gills to be in the business but I think you should at least try to look the part somewhat. There's a lot of smaller guys in AEW but they still look like actual athletes. They look believable. They look like they could kick someone's ass. I don't see that with Cole. Obviously you can't do anything about your height but you can do something about your physique and to me it looks like he's not making enough effort about that. In his defense though every company he goes to pushes the hell out of him. It's clearly not an issue for them so in that case then I guess why bother putting the work in at the gym if it doesn't matter. Unless I guess if it's going to lead to problems with injuries like Booker thinks. Cole was pretty jacked when he formed the Kingdom back in ROH but he did suffer some pretty significant injuries due to carrying the weight
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Post by ThankGodForSidJustice on Jun 19, 2022 22:06:48 GMT -5
Shawn Michaels, Rey Mysterio, Daniel Bryan, & Chris Jericho among others have held all been world champions despite not being the tallest people in the world You don’t need to be a giant to hold the top belt for a wrestling company - that out of date mind set is from the 1980’s *Bret Hart has entered the chat* The complaint wasn't about height. It more about his build. Shawn Michaels, Bret Hart, and Chris Jericho in their primes were all 220 to 230 with muscular athletic builds. Adam Cole weighs about a buck 60 with nary a muscle on him. Even Rey Mysterio and Daniel Bryan while shorter were also pretty jacked.
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Wieners=$$$
Hank Scorpio
Gif Master Extraordinaire
I Miss You Peanut😥
Posts: 6,083
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Post by Wieners=$$$ on Jun 19, 2022 22:06:48 GMT -5
The problem with Adam Cole isn't his size as much as it is he has like no muscle definition whatsoever. I'm not a size mark where I think you have to be 6'4" or whatever and jacked to the gills to be in the business but I think you should at least try to look the part somewhat. There's a lot of smaller guys in AEW but they still look like actual athletes. They look believable. They look like they could kick someone's ass. I don't see that with Cole. Obviously you can't do anything about your height but you can do something about your physique and to me it looks like he's not making enough effort about that. In his defense though every company he goes to pushes the hell out of him. It's clearly not an issue for them so in that case then I guess why bother putting the work in at the gym if it doesn't matter. Unless I guess if it's going to lead to problems with injuries like Booker thinks. Cole was pretty jacked when he formed the Kingdom back in ROH but he did suffer some pretty significant injuries due to carrying the weight Hey, now! Matt "at least I'm not Mike Bennett" Taven is part of your statement.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2022 22:07:29 GMT -5
if this were thirty years ago (when wrestling still tried to make sense and present itself as real), they would do a video package/interview of him in a weight room lifting weights, so the audience could visually see "he's doesn't have a muscle bodybuilder body, but he's strong". Also, give this guy a character of some sort to make up for it. Ted dibiase in the wwf wasn't mr muscle in the hulk/warrior years, but no one ever brought it up because his character was so strong that it didn't matter, and you still saw him exercising a couple of times to demonstrate that he can be physical if he wants to.
In the eighties and nineties, they would give guys video training packages, so it didn't matter how muscley they were, you could visually see them training. shawn working on his speed and high flying, bret working on his ground mat wrestling, ron simmons running up the football field steps, dino bravo and hulk lifting weights, yoko eating, etc They would visually depict the character's traits for the audience. Anything past 2000, they don't pretend that it's real anyway, so I stopped complaining and just ignore those years, but rey winning is a perfect example. They never explained to the audience how the guy who runs the ropes by bouncing off the second rope is beating guys twice his size. They could've done a video package of him working out and training, show "he may be short, but he's super strong, that you wouldn't know unless we showed it to you" or "he's short, but he's been doing his high flying for so long, he knows his quickness will overcome the size difference" and have him give bret's line about diesel about how he'll take his legs out to get him on the ground and then they'll both be the same size. Now, they stick a guy out there with no explanation and say "accept this". So take this cole guy and either 1) give him a character, so his body isn't the focus, his character motivations and actions are the focus, or 2) show a package of him training showing his either high flying or submission moves to tell the audience that he doesn't need a body, he has his mind to outsmart his opponents with his great wrestling, and those both would take the focus off of his body. Instead, they just stick a body in a ring to have matches, with no explanation. Do the same thing with jungle boy. Give some explanation with a video package of him training away from the ring, here he is bench pressing his pet ape to show that he's super strong, and cut to him bodyslamming guys, and here he is swinging from trees with his monkey friends in contrast to him climbing all over the guys that are bigger than he is, to show "this is what he does in his regular everyday life, so of course he'd be good at it" and him wrestling guys bigger than he is is just like playing with his animal friends and doing stuff that he's used to. Show him climbing a tree and then cut to him climbing the turnbuckles, show him jumping out of the tree and cut to him jumping off the turnbuckle, show him having a tug-of-war with some animal and cut to him having a test of strength with whoever aew's strongman is. Show to the audience "he may be physically small, but the actions he does in the ring are the actions he does in his every day life, where all of you have to train for wrestling matches, jungle boy is doing what he naturally does every day anyway, so of course he'd be able to compete" and it gives a back story to him, as opposed to just "here's a guy" with no explanation.
They need to do a "we caught up with adam cole during the week...." interview segment, with him in a weight room lifting weights, saying "I'm training for my next match with whoever..." and you can visually tell the audience, he doesn't have a muscle bodybuilder physique, but he's strong, so when he's lifting his opponent in the ring, you can believe it. Have him bench and shoulder press 300 pounds, and then show on a split screen him body slamming and suplexing guys.
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Jun 19, 2022 22:52:39 GMT -5
I hear people say that him being smaller makes his strikes not believable but I don’t get that at all. Same with Riho. Guess what? If an 80 pound human kicked you in the jaw or kneed you upside the head as hard as they could, it would hurt and could absolutely knock you out. No it wouldn't. Thats like the size of a 10 year old. Ok, take a punch or a knee from someone like them then and let us know how it goes. And just for the record, a ten year old punching or kneeing you full force in the face? Not exactly gonna leave you as unscathed as you think it might.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2022 22:56:03 GMT -5
Good for you. He looks smaller to me in AEW. I also don't really care if you find it insulting. He can be as crisp and smooth in the ring as he wants. He doesn't look believable to me as a wrestler. That's my opinion and the opinion of others. The camp that treats him this way? I don't hide behind anything. My viewpoint is that wrestling is how someone makes you believe in it. It's no different than an actor gaining weight for a role or someone bulking up to play a superhero. You must really not be a fan of today's wrestling because the vast majority of them are smaller huh? He heaps endless praise about WWE's product, so take a wild guess.
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Post by This Player Hating Mothman on Jun 19, 2022 22:58:31 GMT -5
Adam Cole has a very lean physique but he also has stamina for days. Dude works a match style built on dragging everything out for so long that even if you can't see cardio as a physical thing, it becomes very apparent that he is in great shape and can work circles around most the rest of the roster on endurance. Which is all fine because his scrawny build works exceptionally well for his HBK tribute style. He's not doing power moves or trying to seem jacked, he's a weasel dickhead who uses his speed and his smarts. He moves fast and his leanness works well with that.
"Athletic" bodies come in so many different forms and for so many different purposes even before you get into the ways peoples' different bodies handle the matters of building or keeping muscle on. If he doesn't look like he's a "believable" athlete but then he can put on the performance he does, I don't know how this explanation still stands. He's putting in the work and if you actually watch one of his matches you can see that, people who talk about him like he's not doing anything in the gym are perpetuating some nasty shit.
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RKTaker
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Posts: 16,307
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Post by RKTaker on Jun 19, 2022 23:01:08 GMT -5
can we ban these Adam Cole's body threads cause every single time this comes up it always degrades into these arguments about how a wrestler's body should be
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RKTaker
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Posts: 16,307
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Post by RKTaker on Jun 19, 2022 23:04:43 GMT -5
if this were thirty years ago (when wrestling still tried to make sense and present itself as real), they would do a video package/interview of him in a weight room lifting weights, so the audience could visually see "he's doesn't have a muscle bodybuilder body, but he's strong". Also, give this guy a character of some sort to make up for it. Ted dibiase in the wwf wasn't mr muscle in the hulk/warrior years, but no one ever brought it up because his character was so strong that it didn't matter, and you still saw him exercising a couple of times to demonstrate that he can be physical if he wants to. In the eighties and nineties, they would give guys video training packages, so it didn't matter how muscley they were, you could visually see them training. shawn working on his speed and high flying, bret working on his ground mat wrestling, ron simmons running up the football field steps, dino bravo and hulk lifting weights, yoko eating, etc They would visually depict the character's traits for the audience. Anything past 2000, they don't pretend that it's real anyway, so I stopped complaining and just ignore those years, but rey winning is a perfect example. They never explained to the audience how the guy who runs the ropes by bouncing off the second rope is beating guys twice his size. They could've done a video package of him working out and training, show "he may be short, but he's super strong, that you wouldn't know unless we showed it to you" or "he's short, but he's been doing his high flying for so long, he knows his quickness will overcome the size difference" and have him give bret's line about diesel about how he'll take his legs out to get him on the ground and then they'll both be the same size. Now, they stick a guy out there with no explanation and say "accept this". So take this cole guy and either 1) give him a character, so his body isn't the focus, his character motivations and actions are the focus, or 2) show a package of him training showing his either high flying or submission moves to tell the audience that he doesn't need a body, he has his mind to outsmart his opponents with his great wrestling, and those both would take the focus off of his body. Instead, they just stick a body in a ring to have matches, with no explanation. Do the same thing with jungle boy. Give some explanation with a video package of him training away from the ring, here he is bench pressing his pet ape to show that he's super strong, and cut to him bodyslamming guys, and here he is swinging from trees with his monkey friends in contrast to him climbing all over the guys that are bigger than he is, to show "this is what he does in his regular everyday life, so of course he'd be good at it" and him wrestling guys bigger than he is is just like playing with his animal friends and doing stuff that he's used to. Show him climbing a tree and then cut to him climbing the turnbuckles, show him jumping out of the tree and cut to him jumping off the turnbuckle, show him having a tug-of-war with some animal and cut to him having a test of strength with whoever aew's strongman is. Show to the audience "he may be physically small, but the actions he does in the ring are the actions he does in his every day life, where all of you have to train for wrestling matches, jungle boy is doing what he naturally does every day anyway, so of course he'd be able to compete" and it gives a back story to him, as opposed to just "here's a guy" with no explanation. They need to do a "we caught up with adam cole during the week...." interview segment, with him in a weight room lifting weights, saying "I'm training for my next match with whoever..." and you can visually tell the audience, he doesn't have a muscle bodybuilder physique, but he's strong, so when he's lifting his opponent in the ring, you can believe it. Have him bench and shoulder press 300 pounds, and then show on a split screen him body slamming and suplexing guys. it's not 30 years ago, times change everyone knows wrestling is fake it's not trying to present itself as a real thing anymore
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
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Writer, Lover of all things Wrestling. Analytical, Critical, Lovable (hopefully). Lets all have fun!
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Jun 19, 2022 23:07:40 GMT -5
He's lost no f***ing muscle mass from his days in NXT. For f***s sakes he is the exact same person, I watched his NXT run and his AEW run. This shit is how people get body dysmorphia. I find it incredibly disgusting. Like I'm sorry, but the whole "He's lost mass from his NXT run" baffles me. I constantly look at his NXT physique to his AEW physique and I see little to no difference at all. If he did lose mass, maybe the fact he has a torn labrum might have something to do with it? Something that isn't his fault? Even then... I don't see it at all, and I find it insulting any time it's brought up. And miss me with the "Adam Cole does none of those things to make himself look like a believable wrestler" shit, he's crisp and smooth in ring, and all of his strikes and hits look like they deliver plenty of impact, as much as any wrestler. I never understand or will understand the camp that treats Adam Cole this way, and hiding behind the shield of "It's a profession about looking good, we're supposed to believe these people can fight", well I believe Adam Cole can fight and he doesn't come off like a joke to me and him wrestling/beating Samoa Joe isn't a joke to be either. Can't believe this is even something that has to be defended tbh. Good for you. He looks smaller to me in AEW. I also don't really care if you find it insulting. He can be as crisp and smooth in the ring as he wants. He doesn't look believable to me as a wrestler. That's my opinion and the opinion of others. The camp that treats him this way? I don't hide behind anything. My viewpoint is that wrestling is how someone makes you believe in it. It's no different than an actor gaining weight for a role or someone bulking up to play a superhero. Adam Cole makes me believe in wrestling. His expressions are some of the best, he cuts a great promo and commentary, he has great matches We are in a world, a medium, where we see all shapes, sizes, and personalities succeed in the modern day of 2022, including in that of other sports too. And everyone has opinions about which of those wrestlers are the best, sure. But to me, the weird fixation on Adam Cole, and Adam Cole specifically, is disgusting, and I really don't care, feel that way if you like, I'm also free to think that mentality and everything about it, is extremely outdated. Adam Cole is a good wrestler, and a smart heel, sometimes he cheats to win, sometimes he just has the upper hand or exploits weaknesses, he is a perfect shithead heel who is currently trying to prove he's the best leader, better than Omega, the true kingpin, but he's constantly cut off at the pass. He's in the perfect role right now, and he is presenting it just as well in ring and on the mic, not even at 100 percent, mind you. The discussions about believability just never sit right with me. Cole might literally be one of the most consistent workhorses in any f***ing company, throwing banger after banger with a slew of different opponents. I can understand if people just think he's stale, needs a break, needs a change up, etc. But the camp that constantly knocks the dudes size or "body mass"? That shit's archaic to me, and I will never just be able to sit here and watch people shit on a dude's look like that, especially when we've already had wrestlers come out ABOUT body dysmorphia/eating disorders and image issues in wrestling and how it's effected them. Shit's just rotten to me, and I'm also not going to sugarcoat about it. It genuinely makes my skin crawl and feels so gross coming from people who, 99 percent of the time, couldn't do half of the stuff these people do in there, but will armchair about their body mass and how it's a big deal for their perception. An opinion is one thing, but people in here analyzing about how it isn't believable or someone that size couldn't "realistically do this to a person"? Just not with it, never will be, but that's my two cents on it, carry on with the thread.
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Post by carter 15 on Jun 19, 2022 23:07:40 GMT -5
Hahaha, i do love that gif! 😂 I can’t be bothered elaborating because i’m tired of all the really exaggerated seriousness and insults because of my preference. People can insult the other side as much as they want, whether it be directly or veiled - i don’t think any of us are changing each other’s opinions.
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Post by Mayonnaise on Jun 19, 2022 23:08:52 GMT -5
Booker is a f***ing moron and deserves to be on the list of people with idiot opinions like Russo, Cornette, Disco Inferno, Billy Graham, and a good chunk of social media commenters.
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
FANatic
Writer, Lover of all things Wrestling. Analytical, Critical, Lovable (hopefully). Lets all have fun!
Posts: 236,134
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Jun 19, 2022 23:09:00 GMT -5
can we ban these Adam Cole's body threads cause every single time this comes up it always degrades into these arguments about how a wrestler's body should be Seconded, it's the same disgusting, off putting comments every single time from some people Most peeps get it, most peeps are cool and understand how bullshit it is, but I think most people are just tired of the constant knocks on Adam Cole and how "He needs to look" to be "Believable". I know I'm exhausted with it, personally... Booker can honestly go along with it, maybe even more so. Dude's awful lately.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2022 23:17:17 GMT -5
if this were thirty years ago (when wrestling still tried to make sense and present itself as real), they would do a video package/interview of him in a weight room lifting weights, so the audience could visually see "he's doesn't have a muscle bodybuilder body, but he's strong". Also, give this guy a character of some sort to make up for it. Ted dibiase in the wwf wasn't mr muscle in the hulk/warrior years, but no one ever brought it up because his character was so strong that it didn't matter, and you still saw him exercising a couple of times to demonstrate that he can be physical if he wants to. In the eighties and nineties, they would give guys video training packages, so it didn't matter how muscley they were, you could visually see them training. shawn working on his speed and high flying, bret working on his ground mat wrestling, ron simmons running up the football field steps, dino bravo and hulk lifting weights, yoko eating, etc They would visually depict the character's traits for the audience. Anything past 2000, they don't pretend that it's real anyway, so I stopped complaining and just ignore those years, but rey winning is a perfect example. They never explained to the audience how the guy who runs the ropes by bouncing off the second rope is beating guys twice his size. They could've done a video package of him working out and training, show "he may be short, but he's super strong, that you wouldn't know unless we showed it to you" or "he's short, but he's been doing his high flying for so long, he knows his quickness will overcome the size difference" and have him give bret's line about diesel about how he'll take his legs out to get him on the ground and then they'll both be the same size. Now, they stick a guy out there with no explanation and say "accept this". So take this cole guy and either 1) give him a character, so his body isn't the focus, his character motivations and actions are the focus, or 2) show a package of him training showing his either high flying or submission moves to tell the audience that he doesn't need a body, he has his mind to outsmart his opponents with his great wrestling, and those both would take the focus off of his body. Instead, they just stick a body in a ring to have matches, with no explanation. Do the same thing with jungle boy. Give some explanation with a video package of him training away from the ring, here he is bench pressing his pet ape to show that he's super strong, and cut to him bodyslamming guys, and here he is swinging from trees with his monkey friends in contrast to him climbing all over the guys that are bigger than he is, to show "this is what he does in his regular everyday life, so of course he'd be good at it" and him wrestling guys bigger than he is is just like playing with his animal friends and doing stuff that he's used to. Show him climbing a tree and then cut to him climbing the turnbuckles, show him jumping out of the tree and cut to him jumping off the turnbuckle, show him having a tug-of-war with some animal and cut to him having a test of strength with whoever aew's strongman is. Show to the audience "he may be physically small, but the actions he does in the ring are the actions he does in his every day life, where all of you have to train for wrestling matches, jungle boy is doing what he naturally does every day anyway, so of course he'd be able to compete" and it gives a back story to him, as opposed to just "here's a guy" with no explanation. They need to do a "we caught up with adam cole during the week...." interview segment, with him in a weight room lifting weights, saying "I'm training for my next match with whoever..." and you can visually tell the audience, he doesn't have a muscle bodybuilder physique, but he's strong, so when he's lifting his opponent in the ring, you can believe it. Have him bench and shoulder press 300 pounds, and then show on a split screen him body slamming and suplexing guys. it's not 30 years ago, times change everyone knows wrestling is fake it's not trying to present itself as a real thing anymore "it's fake and not trying to present itself as a real thing" now watch my five star match with my serious wrestling skills.
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Post by "Evil Brood" Jackson Vanik on Jun 19, 2022 23:21:31 GMT -5
Folks bring up Rey in these conversations as he eventually got pretty muscular but I think that's an issue with this whole mindset. He did put on muscle mass and in the process, slowed down and became more injury prone. I always thought his early WCW offense looked better because of the snap he had to it. And I think that's why he's aged well at this point as he no longer pushes his body to essentially be Frieza's 100% form and instead has a good looking albeit smaller body that can do more. If Cole tried to do that (and some of this is genetic so maybe he can't without illegal substances), he might be worse off for it.
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Post by Raw is Doodie101 on Jun 19, 2022 23:21:53 GMT -5
You must really not be a fan of today's wrestling because the vast majority of them are smaller huh? He heaps endless praise about WWE's product, so take a wild guess. I actually don't heap endless praise on the WWE product. I can be critical of the product. I also don't think my not being a big fan of Adam Cole has anything to do with me not enjoying the modern wrestling product when I have a post praising smaller wrestlers.
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lucas_lee
Hank Scorpio
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Post by lucas_lee on Jun 19, 2022 23:23:08 GMT -5
That's how I feel about Adam Cole as well. I just don't find anything he does believable in the ring, especially in AEW where he's lost muscle mass from NXT. Like he was small in NXT but he still had some definition where it looked like he could fight. He looks like a child in AEW these days. Him fighting Joe was a joke. I also hate the notion that you can't say anything about a wrestler's body in a profession where we're supposed to believe that these people are fighting. There is a level of belief that you have to have to enjoy wrestling. For many people, that belief comes in the form of body presentation. Do you look like you can fight? Whether you are short or tall, big or small, how do you use your body to present yourself? Kevin Owens is a big guy but he used his body in ways that are believable. Eddie Kingston isn't a muscle guy, but he uses his body in ways that are violent and he feels like a killer. Daniel Bryan is a short but sturdy dude who looks like he could kick your head in. Adam Cole does none of those things with his body. He's a technician/striker but he has no mass to make his strikes feel believable and he's that not great of a technician where he feels like he can wrestle circles around his opponent. LOL I'm not even a fan of Cole and his stuff looks way crisper and believable than guys that are supposed to look like wrestlers. His wrestling style might not be for you but this body criticism stuff is what leads wrestlers down, you should be absolutely shamed for saying negative stuff
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