lucas_lee
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Post by lucas_lee on Jun 19, 2022 23:25:33 GMT -5
Hahaha, i do love that gif! 😂 I can’t be bothered elaborating because i’m tired of all the really exaggerated seriousness and insults because of my preference. People can insult the other side as much as they want, whether it be directly or veiled - i don’t think any of us are changing each other’s opinions. If one opinion didn't have harmful effects on a wrestlers psyche and mental health, I'd be more haha that's funny about it. But weight and body issues is something we should just keep shut and realize wrestling should be for everyone of all sizes
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Post by Raw is Doodie101 on Jun 19, 2022 23:26:53 GMT -5
That's how I feel about Adam Cole as well. I just don't find anything he does believable in the ring, especially in AEW where he's lost muscle mass from NXT. Like he was small in NXT but he still had some definition where it looked like he could fight. He looks like a child in AEW these days. Him fighting Joe was a joke. I also hate the notion that you can't say anything about a wrestler's body in a profession where we're supposed to believe that these people are fighting. There is a level of belief that you have to have to enjoy wrestling. For many people, that belief comes in the form of body presentation. Do you look like you can fight? Whether you are short or tall, big or small, how do you use your body to present yourself? Kevin Owens is a big guy but he used his body in ways that are believable. Eddie Kingston isn't a muscle guy, but he uses his body in ways that are violent and he feels like a killer. Daniel Bryan is a short but sturdy dude who looks like he could kick your head in. Adam Cole does none of those things with his body. He's a technician/striker but he has no mass to make his strikes feel believable and he's that not great of a technician where he feels like he can wrestle circles around his opponent. LOL I'm not even a fan of Cole and his stuff looks way crisper and believable than guys that are supposed to look like wrestlers. His wrestling style might not be for you but this body criticism stuff is what leads wrestlers down, you should be absolutely shamed for saying negative stuff Not worried about being shamed. I stand by what I said.
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lucas_lee
Hank Scorpio
Heel turn is finished, now stripping away my personality
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Post by lucas_lee on Jun 19, 2022 23:28:14 GMT -5
LOL I'm not even a fan of Cole and his stuff looks way crisper and believable than guys that are supposed to look like wrestlers. His wrestling style might not be for you but this body criticism stuff is what leads wrestlers down, you should be absolutely shamed for saying negative stuff Not worried about being shamed. I stand by what I said. I guess agree to disagree on this one.
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Post by eJm on Jun 20, 2022 0:25:45 GMT -5
The amount of people that don’t realize body dysphasia affects men as well as women (and those that don’t classify themselves as either gender) is…it’s worrying.
Jordynne Grace talks about it all the time and some would say she looks more like a wrestler than Adam Cole does.
I wouldn’t because, you know, I don’t actually care.
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Jun 20, 2022 0:31:17 GMT -5
The general reason for hate around here is that if you're the kind of fan who's been watching whatever is the hot workrate promotion, you've seen Adam Cole in the same spot, working with the same people, and playing the same character since about 2015. Which...is really reasonable from a fan perspective. It's also easy to see why it's happened from a promoter's perspective, because each time, he was working somewhere new, and each booker was going with something that they knew worked. But for anyone who hopped from promotion to promotion, woof, that's tough. Even as someone who didn't watch him in NXT, I'm just kinda looking at him and feeling like I've seen it all secondhand. And I'm enjoying him more than many here, it feels like. Yeah I just get confused. Seemed like people were complaining because he was not being made a big deal when he came in (not entirely true) and now they think he's being used too much. At the end of the day, I think Kenny being out longer than expected (remember original plan was February) as derailed a lot of plans for Adam, the Bucks, and Redragon. You also have other injuries the MJF situation, and thr Hardy situation so you have to rely on Adam on the mic more. I am just confused by the hate. Booker saying something doesn't upset me. If people think Cole is small, whatevs. I said a few times... it's AEW's "holding pattern until timing is perfect for what we want' booking... So Adam Cole and ReDRagon are doing things because they consider them important... but because the big storyline they want them to have is stalled so they're not really DOING anything important.
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Allie Kitsune
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Post by Allie Kitsune on Jun 20, 2022 0:40:26 GMT -5
Damn it, Booker. I want to like you for being the first Big Time Black Main Eventer from the time I started watching (note that I said "from when I started watching", not "ever"), and Bookdust was one of my favorite things ever, but you just hate on everything anymore and it's exhausting.
As far as Cole goes, I'm not really into him in AEW, but I think that's because if you're going to walk into that company after being "Shawn and Hunter's most precious son", then you need to LEAN INTO THAT.
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Jun 20, 2022 0:47:34 GMT -5
The amount of people that don’t realize body dysphasia affects men as well as women (and those that don’t classify themselves as either gender) is…it’s worrying. Jordynne Grace talks about it all the time and some would say she looks more like a wrestler than Adam Cole does. I wouldn’t because, you know, I don’t actually care. Also Alexa Bliss, who I believe dealt with eating disorders Stuff like this isn't constructive criticism, it's just... gross, and doesn't come from a place of "I want the wrestler to improve" it comes from a place of "The wrestler doesn't look how I want them to, therefore, they aren't believable or are a joke", and I just can't for the life of me wrap my head around how people think that or some form of that is cool to say in 2022...
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Jun 20, 2022 0:55:10 GMT -5
it's not 30 years ago, times change everyone knows wrestling is fake it's not trying to present itself as a real thing anymore "it's fake and not trying to present itself as a real thing" now watch my five star match with my serious wrestling skills. What is the point you're even trying to make here? They do this in WWE, they do this in New Japan, they do this in AEW. They put on spectacles, they still have the crazy, larger than life characters, and they also now aren't all jacked up freaks who get addicted to god knows what and causes problems in life years down the road. Seems like a win-win to me, I'd personally like to see a lot of these men and women live past 60, while also putting on great matches. And no I don't need Adam Cole lifting weights to prove he's legitimate.
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Jun 20, 2022 0:57:09 GMT -5
The amount of people that don’t realize body dysphasia affects men as well as women (and those that don’t classify themselves as either gender) is…it’s worrying. Jordynne Grace talks about it all the time and some would say she looks more like a wrestler than Adam Cole does. I wouldn’t because, you know, I don’t actually care. Also Alexa Bliss, who I believe dealt with eating disorders . Yeah, Bliss has spoken about it a lot, something along the lines of like she weighed 80 lbs. when she was 15 and was hospitalized because her heart was basically about to go into cardiac arrest.
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Jun 20, 2022 1:02:01 GMT -5
LOL I'm not even a fan of Cole and his stuff looks way crisper and believable than guys that are supposed to look like wrestlers. His wrestling style might not be for you but this body criticism stuff is what leads wrestlers down, you should be absolutely shamed for saying negative stuff Not worried about being shamed. I stand by what I said. You should understand how negative it is, however I get if you have some certain standard in your mind in how wrestlers should look, but you should actually understand what it does to these people. They aren't a toy, and judging them and calling them jokes or "not a believable wrestler" is the kind of shit that leads to horrible outcomes You might think "Oh it's just me, they don't care about me or what I have to say", but the stigma of what you're saying is harmful. It has nothing to do with characters, or booking, or even safety... it's a harmful narrative. There's a reason it's being shamed.
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The Ichi
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Post by The Ichi on Jun 20, 2022 1:09:44 GMT -5
Folks bring up Rey in these conversations as he eventually got pretty muscular but I think that's an issue with this whole mindset. He did put on muscle mass and in the process, slowed down and became more injury prone. I always thought his early WCW offense looked better because of the snap he had to it. And I think that's why he's aged well at this point as he no longer pushes his body to essentially be Frieza's 100% form and instead has a good looking albeit smaller body that can do more. If Cole tried to do that (and some of this is genetic so maybe he can't without illegal substances), he might be worse off for it. Same with Eddie. People think him getting to the top is a big success thing for smaller guys, but he definitely had to make some unnecessary sacrifices. By the end of his run it looked like his shoulders were trying to create a clone.
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Allie Kitsune
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Post by Allie Kitsune on Jun 20, 2022 1:16:45 GMT -5
Folks bring up Rey in these conversations as he eventually got pretty muscular but I think that's an issue with this whole mindset. He did put on muscle mass and in the process, slowed down and became more injury prone. I always thought his early WCW offense looked better because of the snap he had to it. And I think that's why he's aged well at this point as he no longer pushes his body to essentially be Frieza's 100% form and instead has a good looking albeit smaller body that can do more. If Cole tried to do that (and some of this is genetic so maybe he can't without illegal substances), he might be worse off for it. Same with Eddie. People think him getting to the top is a big success thing for smaller guys, but he definitely had to make some unnecessary sacrifices. By the end of his run it looked like his shoulders were trying to create a clone. The other thing is, Signature Pharmacy showed that just because you're juicing, it doesn't mean you're going to get big. I mean, did anybody ever think FUNAKI was gonna get busted for Steroids?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2022 1:19:49 GMT -5
"it's fake and not trying to present itself as a real thing" now watch my five star match with my serious wrestling skills. What is the point you're even trying to make here? They do this in WWE, they do this in New Japan, they do this in AEW. They put on spectacles, they still have the crazy, larger than life characters, and they also now aren't all jacked up freaks who get addicted to god knows what and causes problems in life years down the road. Seems like a win-win to me, I'd personally like to see a lot of these men and women live past 60, while also putting on great matches. And no I don't need Adam Cole lifting weights to prove he's legitimate. My original point was "if the audience's complaint about a guy is that his body isn't big enough, you tell the audience reasons why that doesn't matter, because here is how he wins instead". The response to that was "this is fake, so who cares". My response to that was that everyone is so concerned these days with having "serious wrestling matches", but explaining in character questions the audience is having about the people in these serious wrestling matches and trying to keep the show "real" and "believable" is too much to ask. 1) The original complaint of the thread is adam cole's body isn't believable for him to be winning wrestling matches. I gave two ways to get the focus off of his body 1) give him a character, so the focus is on his character, not his body, like ted dibiase was, 2) film a video/interview/"during the week we met with..." segment showing him exercising, lifting weights, running up stairs, whatever you want, to visually show the audience "he may not look like a bodybuilder, but he can do all the physical stuff that he's doing and here's video of him doing it". Instead of putting a body in the ring and having everyone immediately complain about it, give the body in the ring a backstory for who this guy is and what are his character traits to win his wrestling matches. Show him as a wrestling expert who knows every hold in existence, so while all of you are working on your bodies, I'm busy winning wrestling matches with my brain and skills. 2) I didn't say "he needs to start lifting weights" or that he needs to change his body, I said "film an interview segment with him lifting weights to show on the television program, that you're going to show in character to the audience" to show that he doesn't need to have big muscles to be strong, here's video proof of him being strong. The complaint is "he's too small/soft to be taken seriously as a wrestler", so here he is showing that he is strong, he just doesn't visually have the big muscles to go along with it. So it's taking that complaint away and making his character stronger. He needs to lift weights for thirty seconds to film a video package that will be shown on the television show to the audience about his on screen character. Not forever and ever as a lifestyle change. It tells the audience "I *can* do that, but I choose not to. While all of you are lifting weights, I'm plotting out new ways to beat you" and make it part of his character. It answers the audience's main complaint about him, that he's too small to be taken seriously. Show a shot of him lifting a weight, and then split screen it with him in a match lifting his opponent. Then he never has to lift another weight again if you want, because aew can show that video to the audience that's complaining, and say "are you stronger than you look? so is he" 3) I gave examples to solve the problem of the thread (get the focus off of his body to the people complaining about it). The response I got from that was "wrestling is fake anyway, so who cares, no one is trying to pretend that it's real anymore". My response to that was for not trying to pretend that it's real, they're sure trying to get over how real their wrestling is, and we don't do that goofy stuff they used to do, we're serious athletes now. The wrestlers today want everyone to think, "the show and the character I am playing is fake, but I'm real and my wrestling skills are real". We want serious wrestling damn it, but giving an explanation as to who any of these people, their character traits and strengths, any sort of backstory for the audience to go on, is too much and fake and "We don't do that anymore". If the audience is having questions as to why this guy that's half the size as everyone else is competitive and winning matches, you need to give a quick segment to the audience explaining his backstory, a "here are his strengths and how he got here" kind of thing, to answer those questions to the audience. edit: I don't know who adam cole is, I have no feelings about him one way or the other. He might be a great guy, he might be a horrible guy, I know nothing about him. I just know that a picture of his body is what keeps getting put up as "this is how wrestlers look now?" recently on twitter, and since now it was posted on here as part of the same complaint, I gave my way that I would solve that for the audience: explain that he doesn't need a fabulous body to win, take the focus off of his body and on to a character, show that he's plotting out new ways to win and he wins with his smarts and pre-match planning. The response I got to that was "This is all fake anyway, so who cares!" and my response to that was the wrestlers are trying to make me believe that their wrestling skills and matches are real, but they can't make the rest of the show real to go along with it? Everything is fake until the bell rings and then all of a sudden we want serious wrestling.
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Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on Jun 20, 2022 1:50:44 GMT -5
I am someone who has previously bagged on Cole's look but he is immensely over and successful so I am clearly wrong about that
But this is also the dumbest size critique I have yet seen
"If he takes time off he will get smaller"
...except he will probably then rebuild muscle after his surgery before he comes back? What the f*** are you talking about?
It's like saying 'if he gets surgery he will just have a hole bleeding everywhere every match'
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spagett
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Post by spagett on Jun 20, 2022 2:17:40 GMT -5
Reminds me of when Billy Graham told Kofi to get on the juice. What's crazy about that is Booker actually criticized Billy Graham for that comment, but now Booker's saying the same dumb shit that Graham does. Well you see Billy Graham back then was criticising a WWE guy, so Booker T had to have the opposite view in order to defend the WWE like he does at all costs because he's an embarrassing stooge. Now Adam Cole isn't in WWE, so Booker T is free to talk shit about him as much as he wants. He's an utter carny.
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Post by The Trashman on Jun 20, 2022 2:43:16 GMT -5
No it wouldn't. Thats like the size of a 10 year old. Ok, take a punch or a knee from someone like them then and let us know how it goes. And just for the record, a ten year old punching or kneeing you full force in the face? Not exactly gonna leave you as unscathed as you think it might. I have actually been in a fight before, and if I could handle it when I was a kid I'm sure I could now.
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Jun 20, 2022 2:56:12 GMT -5
Ok, take a punch or a knee from someone like them then and let us know how it goes. And just for the record, a ten year old punching or kneeing you full force in the face? Not exactly gonna leave you as unscathed as you think it might. I have actually been in a fight before, and if I could handle it when I was a kid I'm sure I could now. I'm sure you could handle it in a fight, but it's not unrealistic to believe that a full grown adult even less weight couldn't f*** you up, especially one trained in a form of combat and probably has a decent way to defend themselves They're gonna hit harder and be smarter than a 10 year old, which is why I found the comparison very odd. Someone fully grown, in good shape, could knock you senseless with a punch or a knee... that's just science...
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Mozenrath
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Post by Mozenrath on Jun 20, 2022 3:20:17 GMT -5
Also Alexa Bliss, who I believe dealt with eating disorders . Yeah, Bliss has spoken about it a lot, something along the lines of like she weighed 80 lbs. when she was 15 and was hospitalized because her heart was basically about to go into cardiac arrest. Yep, she basically had to be given an intervention, if I recall. It sucks Booker T gets like this, as he had quite an interesting career, but he just seems so mean-spirited sometimes. Stevie Ray, I've heard less from, but he seems like the more chill of the brothers. It's especially weird since it's not like Booker failed or anything, either. He could have been bigger, sure, but he still had a very prolific career in WCW and WWE. Maybe not so much TNA, but hey, even there, he had a few highlights. You'd assume he'd be happier.
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Post by Mid-Carder on Jun 20, 2022 3:20:59 GMT -5
I would watch the worst Adam Cole match before I'd watch the best Booker T match
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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2022 3:45:58 GMT -5
I'll admit I was a little hung up on his size at first, but you know what? Dude won me over with his facial expressions and in ring ability and I don't even think about it now. Plus I've personally been dealing with some body image shit over the last few years, so I now understand how he might feel hearing people say things like this.
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