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Post by polarbearpete on Jun 23, 2022 9:51:30 GMT -5
I have no clue who the NJPW guys are and they've done a crap job of explaining so I'm gonna sit out this PPV. You're right, if you don't count them literally explaining them every time they've showed up. The fact that the no is beating out yes is wildly dumbfounding. This PPV is giving you the fourway of: Okada vs Jay White vs Adam Page vs Adam Cole. If that alone isn't enough for you then outside of Tony Khan personally servicing you to climax nothing else will do it. Not everyone is fully aware of the NJPW guys. It’s not too surprising that a card filled with wrestlers the audience may have seen a handful of times at most is giving people pause about spending $50.
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4real
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Post by 4real on Jun 23, 2022 12:19:26 GMT -5
Undecided but will probably sit this one out. As I’m sure it is for a lot of Brits money is tight right now.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2022 12:31:36 GMT -5
I completely understand why some people are sitting this one out, and, to an extent, I understand why people are criticizing the build to the show. It is wholly justified to be critical of a show which just added 4 major matches to the PPV just a week out during the go home show, and without any major build.
Where I don't entirely understand the criticism is the idea that there hasn't been enough story development, or that we "haven't been given a reason to care about NJPW." I guess it's the "real sports" fan in me, but I'm not sure that we especially need any "reason to care" beyond, "these are really good, world-renowned wrestlers and they are here seeking glory." To me, it's not any different than things like the World Baseball Classic, the Women's Cup and Champion's League in Soccer, the Ryder Cup in golf, etc... Just the best talent in the world being brought together to prove that they are the best. To me, that in and of itself is a great storyline and I am excited to see the matches play out.
I'll be disappointed, personally, if this show’s buys are low enough that it kills this becoming an annual thing, because it truly is an awesome concept, and I think it'll only get better as AEW and New Japan become more comfortable working with one another and work out some of the kinks that have been criticized with the build to this inaugural show.
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Jun 23, 2022 13:39:31 GMT -5
It certainly makes more sense to do something like this NOW then when WCW tried it...
but if you aren't following NJPW, you at most have heard of some of these people by reputation (and some of those ain't exactly great Hi Will!)
I do think they could have done more to introduce some of the New Japan stars to people that only watch AEW, but that's always kinda been something AEW has been bad at... they've been better recently but they tend to assume that their fans watch literally everything.
Which I guess is better than WWE's stance of teh fans have literally watched nothing... including five minutes earlier in the show... but still <_<
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Post by BlahBlah on Jun 23, 2022 13:45:25 GMT -5
I have no clue who the NJPW guys are and they've done a crap job of explaining so I'm gonna sit out this PPV. You're right, if you don't count them literally explaining them every time they've showed up. The fact that the no is beating out yes is wildly dumbfounding. This PPV is giving you the fourway of: Okada vs Jay White vs Adam Page vs Adam Cole. If that alone isn't enough for you then outside of Tony Khan personally servicing you to climax nothing else will do it. Lots of hyperbole here. Excalibur rattling off a few sentences about whoever before moving on isn't going to sell you on a talent you've never seen. Also that 4 way isn't going to do anything for anybody that's already sick of seeing Page/Cole against one another. Like I get Okada is one of the best in the world but if last night was your first exposure to him what exactly stuck out to make you want to order that show to see him wrestle?
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Kalmia
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Post by Kalmia on Jun 23, 2022 13:54:44 GMT -5
I think expecting people to spend $50 on a PPV only a few weeks after the last $50 is a hard sell, especially when it's a cross promotional show like this. If they were that price on Fite, I'd probably have thought twice about it.
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Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on Jun 23, 2022 14:23:08 GMT -5
Definitely watching, if only to see who Danielson picked to replace him to face ZSJ. I'm hesitating between Claudio and Jonathan Gresham. I had a really expensive few months and because I know so little about NJPW I wasn't interested either When Sabre called out Brian, I came close. Then Sabre got hurt AEW has got more disappointing with its surprises lately so I am waiting until after payday to potentially order a replay on Fite
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Post by simplydurhamcalling on Jun 23, 2022 14:42:45 GMT -5
We see great action every week for free that's not going to be enough to get a lot of people to buy a PPV these days.
I bought Revolution because I wanted to see Punk destroy MJF in a dog collar match, I was intrigued to see where Danielson vs Moxley and Kingston Vs Jericho would go next.
I almost bought the last PPV just to see Wardlow get his revenge.
I look at the card and really don't care who wins any of the matches, there's just no personal investment from me.
Having said all that I can appreciate if you are familiar with NJPW's current product and you watch AEW this will probably be a great show for you. I imagine it's not dissimilar to how much I looked forward to and enjoyed One Night Stand 1 and 2 and to be fair those shows did very well financially too.
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r.
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Post by r. on Jun 23, 2022 16:12:04 GMT -5
You're right, if you don't count them literally explaining them every time they've showed up. The fact that the no is beating out yes is wildly dumbfounding. This PPV is giving you the fourway of: Okada vs Jay White vs Adam Page vs Adam Cole. If that alone isn't enough for you then outside of Tony Khan personally servicing you to climax nothing else will do it. Lots of hyperbole here. Excalibur rattling off a few sentences about whoever before moving on isn't going to sell you on a talent you've never seen. Also that 4 way isn't going to do anything for anybody that's already sick of seeing Page/Cole against one another. Like I get Okada is one of the best in the world but if last night was your first exposure to him what exactly stuck out to make you want to order that show to see him wrestle? Youtube exists.
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Soultastic
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Post by Soultastic on Jun 23, 2022 16:19:57 GMT -5
Was on the fence, then Bryan not being there made me not wanna buy it, then Okada came out and I was back on the fence, then Hiromu and Shingo were added so now I'm gonna buy it. Let's goooooooooo.
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Post by Lizuka #BLM on Jun 23, 2022 16:21:19 GMT -5
Lots of hyperbole here. Excalibur rattling off a few sentences about whoever before moving on isn't going to sell you on a talent you've never seen. Also that 4 way isn't going to do anything for anybody that's already sick of seeing Page/Cole against one another. Like I get Okada is one of the best in the world but if last night was your first exposure to him what exactly stuck out to make you want to order that show to see him wrestle? Youtube exists. Which has always been an absolutely awful argument. A show should be able to stand on its own.
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Post by Cyno on Jun 23, 2022 16:23:05 GMT -5
So the closest theater showing it is apparently in f***ing Staten Island. I'm guessing since this isn't one of the big four shows, less theaters are carrying. But between tolls, food, etc. it probably costs more to do that than just ordering the PPV at home.
So, unfortunately going to have to pass because $50 for a PPV is a pretty tough deal for me now.
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r.
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Post by r. on Jun 23, 2022 16:31:16 GMT -5
Which has always been an absolutely awful argument. A show should be able to stand on its own. It does. Other than a glaring neon light that says 'Japanese wrestlers' along with stats it's unreasonable to expect every ounce of information to be spoonfed to the audience. For that to work Forbidden door would need to be in October to cover enough vignettes. I think far too many people assume the casual wrestling fan is completely uninformed about wrestling outside of their favorite promotion.
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Post by Lizuka #BLM on Jun 23, 2022 16:38:28 GMT -5
Looking at the card I think another problem I'm having with it is how repetitively it's laid out. You've got two eight-man tags, a six-man tag, two four ways, and a triple threat tag. Know intercompany politics can be messy but that kind of just feels like an argument for why doing this show's a dumb idea to start with if you need to go through all of that to actually put together a card both sides can agree on, and it does a lot to diminish my interest as someone who really just sees singles matches as flat out better than alternatives most of the time.
Doesn't really help much that of the people in the four ways the only ones I even kind of care about at this point are Hangman and Miro. I'd care about PAC again if he ever actually did anything but...
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Jun 23, 2022 16:41:51 GMT -5
Which has always been an absolutely awful argument. A show should be able to stand on its own. Especially cause the point of a wrestling promotion is to promote. It is literally their entire purpose to make people want to see the show and say why the people involved is important.
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Legion
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Post by Legion on Jun 23, 2022 16:47:26 GMT -5
Lots of hyperbole here. Excalibur rattling off a few sentences about whoever before moving on isn't going to sell you on a talent you've never seen. Also that 4 way isn't going to do anything for anybody that's already sick of seeing Page/Cole against one another. Like I get Okada is one of the best in the world but if last night was your first exposure to him what exactly stuck out to make you want to order that show to see him wrestle? Youtube exists. Which is grand if you have time. I have other hobbies, an intense job, family and friends to do shit with. I dont have time to look up random Japanese guys so I can enjoy a show they want me to pay to watch. They should have done better in promoting those guys and making me feel as excited as others are for this big Forbidden Door thing. As I said before, it's not a deal breaker on my fandom for them over all, but for this show, really was.
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Post by Lizuka #BLM on Jun 23, 2022 16:51:53 GMT -5
Not really directly related but something I think shows how AEW could be better about this kind of thing. Last night when they were hyping up Hangman against Silas Young by talking about how much history they have. Why not, like, run a brief video package about it? They have the ROH footage, they totally could have done that instead of just telling you about it.
It is commendable in a way that AEW tries to maximize their screentime every week, certainly beats how much of it WWE just wastes on nothing, but there are a lot of little things they could be doing week-to-week that they just don't. And three years later they still haven't learned how to just let a moment breathe either but that's a whole separate, albeit related, discussion.
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Post by HMARK Center on Jun 23, 2022 16:52:01 GMT -5
So the closest theater showing it is apparently in f***ing Staten Island. I'm guessing since this isn't one of the big four shows, less theaters are carrying. But between tolls, food, etc. it probably costs more to do that than just ordering the PPV at home. So, unfortunately going to have to pass because $50 for a PPV is a pretty tough deal for me now. I was going to recommend going to the Cinemark at Willowbrook Mall, but it seems the only seats left for that showing are the handicap-accessible ones. I went to the Staten Island theater for the last show and it was pretty decent, to be honest, but the drive there from Jersey City is pretty straightforward on a Sunday night. Meantime, yeah, not even a question here, I'm a NJPW fan first and foremost and I'm getting Mox vs. Tana, Ospreay vs. Orange, Sabre vs. (I have a pretty good idea), and a lot of Bullet Club and United Empire all over the card. In the words of OSW Review, get in. Hell, I'm still holding out hope that someone will cover for me at work on Sunday and that I can book a last minute flight out to see the show in person, but as it stands that's not looking too likely. ETA: I'm actually not seeing Forbidden Door on the website for the Staten Island Regal theater, is that showing up somewhere else? But for those with the option, Joe Hand Promotions also lists out bars that say they'll be showing the event: www.joehandpromotions.com/venue-search/I live across the river from Manhattan so I've got a few venues popping up for me (Jack Dempsey's and Legends, both right next to the Empire State Building, tend to show combat sports PPVs), but regardless of where you live it might be good to check. For other North Jersey-ites, there's a bar in Elmwood Park that'll apparently have it called Blue 42; I'd call ahead, just to be safe.
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Dub H
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Post by Dub H on Jun 23, 2022 17:08:48 GMT -5
I definitely think more packages would have helped
Like at very least show clips of Hangman vs White and the history of Okada vs Kenny to introduce him
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Bo Rida
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Post by Bo Rida on Jun 23, 2022 17:13:43 GMT -5
Which has always been an absolutely awful argument. A show should be able to stand on its own. It does. Other than a glaring neon light that says 'Japanese wrestlers' along with stats it's unreasonable to expect every ounce of information to be spoonfed to the audience. For that to work Forbidden door would need to be in October to cover enough vignettes. I think far too many people assume the casual wrestling fan is completely uninformed about wrestling outside of their favorite promotion. Not really. If every shitty Lambert promo or Excalibur shilling draft kings segment was replaced with a 30 second video package of the main NJPW players it would have enhanced everything so much. It's kinda like how WWE sprinkled in deathmatch footage before big Cactus Jack matches. Wasn't strictly necessary, people already loved Foley and knew of his past but it enhanced the whole presentation and made it feel bigger. More selling an actual rivalry between companies would help too. Regal tried by dreading a star of a rival company holding the top title. Ftr did too. However it's mostly felt very friendly competition, doesn't need to be a blood fued but should have been more tension and rivalry under the surface. Raw Vs Smackdown feels more heated! Did anyone from aew invade njpw strong? If they didn't why not? If they did why didn't I see footage?
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