Punk vs HHH in 2014

[ChitownKnight]

Would you have been interested in this fued? I think Bryan would of won the title anyways, but I was kind of looking forward to this. Punk actually seeing Hunter for who he was a few years before the Authority was a thing

[Jindrak Mark]

They could have had some fun promos as long as they didn’t steer too far into worked shoot territory but I don’t trust either guy not to go there. The match would’ve probably been average. They didn’t seem to have much chemistry during their 2011 match and 3 years later Punk was a lot more beaten up. He didn’t really have any good matches after the Summerslam one with Brock and I don’t think HHH would’ve been good enough to drag anything great out of an injured and unmotivated Punk.

Punk’s “you need this match, not me” quote about this match never made sense to me. It was basically the other way around. The match would have been a big step down for HHH at the time. Bryan was the hotter guy, the person he was feuding with since Summerslam and they ended up having an amazing match. Meanwhile, if Punk stuck around a win over HHH at WM30 (and it was reported he was planned to go over) would be the biggest thing he could realistically do on the show with who was available. Bryan was winning the title, Lesnar was facing Taker and Cena was busy with Wyatt.

[Final Countdown Jones]

Jul 12, 2022 22:59:29 GMT -5 Jindrak Mark said:

They could have had some fun promos as long as they didn’t steer too far into worked shoot territory but I don’t trust either guy not to go there. The match would’ve probably been average. They didn’t seem to have much chemistry during their 2011 match and 3 years later Punk was a lot more beaten up. He didn’t really have any good matches after the Summerslam one with Brock and I don’t think HHH would’ve been good enough to drag anything great out of an injured and unmotivated Punk.

Punk’s “you need this match, not me” quote about this match never made sense to me. It was basically the other way around. The match would have been a big step down for HHH at the time. Bryan was the hotter guy, the person he was feuding with since Summerslam and they ended up having an amazing match. Meanwhile, if Punk stuck around a win over HHH at WM30 (and it was reported he was planned to go over) would be the biggest thing he could realistically do on the show with who was available. Bryan was winning the title, Lesnar was facing Taker and Cena was busy with Wyatt.

Bryan was not, at the time of planning this, going to win the title. Bryan was going to face Sheamus down in the basement of the card. Whether one needed it more than the other is debatable, but the actual plans at the time the match was being set up isn't, and frankly Punk's absence had a lot to do with the pieces being arranged in that way because Triple H wanted a high-profile match and likely would have taken a win over Punk over a loss to Bryan there.

[polarbearpete]

Jul 12, 2022 23:20:57 GMT -5 Final Countdown Jones said:

Jul 12, 2022 22:59:29 GMT -5 Jindrak Mark said:

They could have had some fun promos as long as they didn’t steer too far into worked shoot territory but I don’t trust either guy not to go there. The match would’ve probably been average. They didn’t seem to have much chemistry during their 2011 match and 3 years later Punk was a lot more beaten up. He didn’t really have any good matches after the Summerslam one with Brock and I don’t think HHH would’ve been good enough to drag anything great out of an injured and unmotivated Punk.

Punk’s “you need this match, not me” quote about this match never made sense to me. It was basically the other way around. The match would have been a big step down for HHH at the time. Bryan was the hotter guy, the person he was feuding with since Summerslam and they ended up having an amazing match. Meanwhile, if Punk stuck around a win over HHH at WM30 (and it was reported he was planned to go over) would be the biggest thing he could realistically do on the show with who was available. Bryan was winning the title, Lesnar was facing Taker and Cena was busy with Wyatt.

Bryan was not, at the time of planning this, going to win the title. Bryan was going to face Sheamus down in the basement of the card. Whether one needed it more than the other is debatable, but the actual plans at the time the match was being set up isn't, and frankly Punk's absence had a lot to do with the pieces being arranged in that way because Triple H wanted a high-profile match and likely would have taken a win over Punk over a loss to Bryan there.

Don’t think Triple H was ever planned to go over Punk for that Mania match.

[Mid-Carder]

No, nobody wanted this. Punk even quit wrestling for 7 years just to get out of this match!

[BayleyTiffyCodyCenaJudyHopps]

No. They didn’t have great chemistry in 2011. It felt like they were both pushing hard to look strong. Punk beats Hunter’s ass for most of it but HHH does get to eek out a win. And Punk’s health in 2014 was apparently bad so it wouldn’t have been good anyway.

Hunter seemed to like being Bryan’s end boss, another star with a main event ROH run. I can’t read minds, but whatever feelings there were after Bryan was furious at Hunter for his match being stopping, by WM30 they were past it.

[Lizuka #BLM]

Had no interest in it all. The two of them never really had any chemistry, it would've felt very forced compared to what they actually did, and other than the Brock match Punk was largely terrible at that point in time anyway since he blatantly no longer gave a shit.

[Final Countdown Jones]

Jul 13, 2022 8:53:33 GMT -5 polarbearpete said:

Jul 12, 2022 23:20:57 GMT -5 Final Countdown Jones said:

Bryan was not, at the time of planning this, going to win the title. Bryan was going to face Sheamus down in the basement of the card. Whether one needed it more than the other is debatable, but the actual plans at the time the match was being set up isn't, and frankly Punk's absence had a lot to do with the pieces being arranged in that way because Triple H wanted a high-profile match and likely would have taken a win over Punk over a loss to Bryan there.

Don’t think Triple H was ever planned to go over Punk for that Mania match.

I don't recall hearing one way or another what the result would be, Triple H going over is just conjecture on my part. Given the animosity between them, Triple H wanting a match with Punk but then putting him over seems very off.

[Lizuka #BLM]

I remember at the time it was pretty widely believed Triple H would win if only because people seemed to be generally taking it for granted that Punk was going to bounce when his contract ran out.

[Cvslfc123]

Punk probably would have become too sick from the undiagnosed staph infection for the match to even happen.

[polarbearpete]

Jul 13, 2022 11:02:44 GMT -5 Final Countdown Jones said:

Jul 13, 2022 8:53:33 GMT -5 polarbearpete said:

Don’t think Triple H was ever planned to go over Punk for that Mania match.

I don't recall hearing one way or another what the result would be, Triple H going over is just conjecture on my part. Given the animosity between them, Triple H wanting a match with Punk but then putting him over seems very off.

I thought Punk said in his interview with Colt that they told him Triple H was putting him over. I could be misremembering.

Edit- found the transcript: “ And I'm in a position now where I can tell you I don't have to nor do I want to wrestle you at WrestleMania." I don't care if I was supposed to win, which I was, but I didn't care. I didn't want to give him the privilege.”

[Final Countdown Jones]

Jul 13, 2022 12:21:20 GMT -5 polarbearpete said:

Jul 13, 2022 11:02:44 GMT -5 Final Countdown Jones said:

I don't recall hearing one way or another what the result would be, Triple H going over is just conjecture on my part. Given the animosity between them, Triple H wanting a match with Punk but then putting him over seems very off.

I thought Punk said in his interview with Colt that they told him Triple H was putting him over. I could be misremembering.

Edit- found the transcript: “ And I'm in a position now where I can tell you I don't have to nor do I want to wrestle you at WrestleMania." I don't care if I was supposed to win, which I was, but I didn't care. I didn't want to give him the privilege.”

Oh, yeah, my bad on that, then. Been years since I listened to that one and that part just skipped out of my head entirely.

[Alice Syndrome]

Jul 12, 2022 22:59:29 GMT -5 Jindrak Mark said:

They could have had some fun promos as long as they didn’t steer too far into worked shoot territory but I don’t trust either guy not to go there. The match would’ve probably been average. They didn’t seem to have much chemistry during their 2011 match and 3 years later Punk was a lot more beaten up. He didn’t really have any good matches after the Summerslam one with Brock and I don’t think HHH would’ve been good enough to drag anything great out of an injured and unmotivated Punk.

Punk’s “you need this match, not me” quote about this match never made sense to me. It was basically the other way around. The match would have been a big step down for HHH at the time. Bryan was the hotter guy, the person he was feuding with since Summerslam and they ended up having an amazing match. Meanwhile, if Punk stuck around a win over HHH at WM30 (and it was reported he was planned to go over) would be the biggest thing he could realistically do on the show with who was available. Bryan was winning the title, Lesnar was facing Taker and Cena was busy with Wyatt.

I agree with Punk honestly. Every Mania match HHH had after the Taker ones except Seth felt like someone trying to cling to relevancy.

[tirtefaa]

Nah.

They had a chance to make this match interesting back in 2011, at a time when Punk was white hot, yet he proceeded to put Triple H over at Night of Champions, which was definitely egregious since it was an attempt to shift focus of the story to Hunter, which later gave us the dreaded walkout and Punk sucking up to Triple H as his lackey and continues to eat pinfalls.

Someone once argued that they couldn't have have Triple H lose at NoC because he would have lost his COO position. Well, here's an idea...don't put a dumb stipulation in place if you can't book your way out of it! Oh and it's the same position that he would lose non ceremoniously a couple months later anyways, where he no-sold it by laughing about it AND also stating he never wanted the job to begin with. This was awful. It's legitimately one of the worst booked feuds I can remember and I'm not even a huge Punk fan.

If WWE couldn't make their 2011 feud work.at a time when Punk needed the rub, and Triple H didn't need anything, then I don't think for one second that Punk would win here either in 2014. Remember, this was the first year of the Authority and they would probably argue that Triple H needed a big heel win to solidify himself as the big heel.

I know people will argue that Triple H put over Bryan, but this was a perfect storm of circumstances. With Punk's walkout and the fans being resentful of Batista winning the Rumble, I think that WWE was put in a position where they had to give the fans what they wanted due to the publicity of both situations. Had Punk not walked out, I think it's easy for WWE to still look at the one circumstance of Bryan and continues to do what they wanted.

[BayleyTiffyCodyCenaJudyHopps]

It’s already generally accepted that WWE was primarily high on Batista to become champion for most of the Mania 30 buildup.

Okay, and? Batista didn’t win the title in NOLA. Sometimes companies shift directions. I’m sure that Hunter would have loved to get a win over Punk or anyone else in NOLA. He didn’t. Why do fans act as if *no one* was appreciating Danielson backstage even after he won belt after belt and he was clearly being presented as a star?

[Deleted]

Their 2011 match was such an overbooked mess.

[krozor]

When HHH says he's going to "put you over" and you know in your heart that either means he's going to make it an interminable build capped by a huge slog of a match where you might win but ultimately get nothing out of it or more likely he does what he did with Goldberg and others and decides at the last minute that it's better that he wins this one, actually, to get more heat for the rematch where he'll for sure put you over and it won't be ineffectual and too late...well, there's only one way to react:

[Lizuka #BLM]

Jul 13, 2022 15:52:13 GMT -5 @dax said:

Their 2011 match was such an overbooked mess.

I still don't understand Miz or Truth, think it was Truth, pulling Punk out of the ring when he had Triple H pinned. Like, you guys' entire f***ing character motivation is wanting Triple H fired. Even if you want to kick Punk's ass wait until afterward.

[tirtefaa]

Jul 13, 2022 15:50:47 GMT -5 BayleyTiffyCodyCenaJudyHopps said:

Why do fans act as if *no one* was appreciating Danielson backstage even after he won belt after belt and he was clearly being presented as a star?

Because it's WWE's insistence on what kind of a star you're going to be. There will always be guys who are the main draw, then there are guys who are regulated to being made champion who are never promoted as *the* guy.

Regardless of what individual people think, the fan base in 2013 DESPERATELY made it clear that they wanted Daniel Bryan to be "the guy". And what did WWE do? They pulled the rug out from underneath him again and again. Sure they "gave him the WWE title" for like 30 seconds...then again for less than 24 hours...surely that's enough, right? Let's call it what it was, it was filler until the next big PPV.

The fact of the matter is that Bryan may have been well liked by his peers, fans and the company alike...but the company never viewed him as the draw along the same lines as a John Cena or Randy Orton. So many wrestlers are seen as belt warmers, guys who are competent enough to be seen as relatively top guys but never the tippy top. It's like if Vince saw the value that Steve Austin was providing, but always treating him as the 3rd or 4th most important guy on the card. Yeah, he might get the belt, but it's only there as a distraction until Shawn and Undertaker headline a big PPV or something.

Again, this is speculative in regards to how far Bryan could have gone, but the fan support was there, that's inarguable. The time to 'make' Bryan was at SummerSlam 2013 and once again, they treat him as this plucky little guy who is there to keep Orton busy for a few months. Time after time WWE will take someone's grassroots heat and try to transfer it to someone else. It's why the Summer of Punk became about Triple H being the only guy who refused to walk out. It's why the Yes movement was attempted to transfer to Big Show, and afterward have Bryan join the Wyatt family. The end goal that we got at WM30 was not the direction the that the company was going to go with, but enough factors forced their hand, when it should have never been that difficult.

There's a difference between being just a star and being given the position that you rightfully earned through your presentation. WWE has and always undervalues a lot of their 'stars' potential under the guise that they'll get a push, only to be jilted all over the card; one moment you're the World champion, the next moment you're in a ladder match with 7 other guys fighting for the IC title. Imagine if they had peak Stone Cold, Undertaker or Rock in those kinds of positions.

At the end of the day, WWE failed the Daniel Bryan experiment, just like they have so many others; Sheamus, Ambrose, Big E, Punk, Wyatt and Kofi. All were guys, but never 'The Guy'.

[BayleyTiffyCodyCenaJudyHopps]

Jul 13, 2022 16:39:23 GMT -5 tirtefaa said:

Jul 13, 2022 15:50:47 GMT -5 BayleyTiffyCodyCenaJudyHopps said:

Why do fans act as if *no one* was appreciating Danielson backstage even after he won belt after belt and he was clearly being presented as a star?

Because it's WWE's insistence on what kind of a star you're going to be. There will always be guys who are the main draw, then there are guys who are regulated to being made champion who are never promoted as *the* guy.

Regardless of what individual people think, the fan base in 2013 DESPERATELY made it clear that they wanted Daniel Bryan to be "the guy". And what did WWE do? They pulled the rug out from underneath him again and again. Sure they "gave him the WWE title" for like 30 seconds...then again for less than 24 hours...surely that's enough, right? Let's call it what it was, it was filler until the next big PPV.

The fact of the matter is that Bryan may have been well liked by his peers, fans and the company alike...but the company never viewed him as the draw along the same lines as a John Cena or Randy Orton. So many wrestlers are seen as belt warmers, guys who are competent enough to be seen as relatively top guys but never the tippy top. It's like if Vince saw the value that Steve Austin was providing, but always treating him as the 3rd or 4th most important guy on the card. Yeah, he might get the belt, but it's only there as a distraction until Shawn and Undertaker headline a big PPV or something.

Again, this is speculative in regards to how far Bryan could have gone, but the fan support was there, that's inarguable. The time to 'make' Bryan was at SummerSlam 2013 and once again, they treat him as this plucky little guy who is there to keep Orton busy for a few months. Time after time WWE will take someone's grassroots heat and try to transfer it to someone else. It's why the Summer of Punk became about Triple H being the only guy who refused to walk out. It's why the Yes movement was attempted to transfer to Big Show, and afterward have Bryan join the Wyatt family. The end goal that we got at WM30 was not the direction the that the company was going to go with, but enough factors forced their hand, when it should have never been that difficult.

There's a difference between being just a star and being given the position that you rightfully earned through your presentation. WWE has and always undervalues a lot of their 'stars' potential under the guise that they'll get a push, only to be jilted all over the card; one moment you're the World champion, the next moment you're in a ladder match with 7 other guys fighting for the IC title. Imagine if they had peak Stone Cold, Undertaker or Rock in those kinds of positions.

At the end of the day, WWE failed the Daniel Bryan experiment, just like they have so many others; Sheamus, Ambrose, Big E, Punk, Wyatt and Kofi. All were guys, but never 'The Guy'.

All of those people you mentioned are massive wrestling stars. Like, what?