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Post by GodzillaIsMyMonster on Jul 23, 2022 20:56:22 GMT -5
I mean you say he wrote "the best tv" WWE ever had.
But like... he didn't. The Mega Powers angle was the most successful period in WWE until the year 2000. And those happened before and after he was a writer.
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Ultimo Gallos
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Post by Ultimo Gallos on Jul 24, 2022 3:26:29 GMT -5
Now I never saw much of Russo's WCW run and very little of his TNA run. But his WWF run had one thing I did like.
That was how he made sure that no matter where someone was on the card they had some kind of storyline going on.
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Ultimo Gallos
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Post by Ultimo Gallos on Jul 24, 2022 3:28:06 GMT -5
I mean you say he wrote "the best tv" WWE ever had. But like... he didn't. The Mega Powers angle was the most successful period in WWE until the year 2000. And those happened before and after he was a writer. Curious what your source is for 2000 being the most successful period for WWE since the Mega Powers. I might be wrong but always thought 98 was the most successful period for WWE. Pretty sure that was the year they had the best tv ratings.merch sales and PPV buy rates.
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Post by eJm on Jul 24, 2022 3:43:56 GMT -5
I mean you say he wrote "the best tv" WWE ever had. But like... he didn't. The Mega Powers angle was the most successful period in WWE until the year 2000. And those happened before and after he was a writer. Curious what your source is for 2000 being the most successful period for WWE since the Mega Powers. I might be wrong but always thought 98 was the most successful period for WWE. Pretty sure that was the year they had the best tv ratings.merch sales and PPV buy rates. Oh yeah, 98-99 was, until now, the best years the company had and it wasn’t close. A lot of ratings records were broken consistently that year. And Russo was there during that time, until near the end of 99, which was literally why WCW wanted the guy. 2000 was successful, don’t get me wrong, but it was more them keeping stable and WCW plummeting.
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Post by This Player Hating Mothman on Jul 24, 2022 3:57:23 GMT -5
If you remove all the horrible things someone said and boil their complex, multi-faceted opinions and views down only to the central points you agree with and pretend those are the entire ideological core of their work, then yeah you can kinda run apologetics for anyone. Russo's sentiments are 'basically' things about neighbors, props, and fake wins the same way Batman is 'basically' a story of how badly one rich man needs to take up a more normal hobby.
Like I'd almost want to go pull up quotes he's said indisputably on his podcast where there is still evidence of them being said, just to express how much is being left off the table, but I don't want to give the deranged shit he's said any time or platform.
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Mozenrath
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Post by Mozenrath on Jul 24, 2022 4:03:04 GMT -5
Now I never saw much of Russo's WCW run and very little of his TNA run. But his WWF run had one thing I did like. That was how he made sure that no matter where someone was on the card they had some kind of storyline going on. He tried to do that in WCW, too, though the execution was such that sometimes there'd be WAY too many segments in the shows, like literally dozens per show, and probably led to WCW spending way too much on plane tickets. That was kind of a WCW problem in general, though, keeping too many people on-hand every week, so I won't lay all of that at his feet.
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H-Virus
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Post by H-Virus on Jul 24, 2022 6:37:00 GMT -5
Now I never saw much of Russo's WCW run and very little of his TNA run. But his WWF run had one thing I did like. That was how he made sure that no matter where someone was on the card they had some kind of storyline going on. I've seen this said many times over the years, and my response to it has always been that yes, he made sure everyone had something to do; the problem is that most of what he gave them was shit, and a lot of those people probably would have been better off if he'd just not given them anything.
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Post by David-Arquette was in WCW 2000 on Jul 24, 2022 6:40:34 GMT -5
I agree with some of Russo's takes and ideas, but as much as I like 2000 WCW for its sheer insanity, I honestly can't say it's good TV. I also can't say the majority of the Attitude era is good TV. It's absolutely not. Things got on track and into a groove and style that largely can back on fondly in late 1999/early 2000 in WWF. The year prior to that was just a mess.
His basic thought of 'it is entertainment and should be written that way' is very true, but that's where it stops.
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tirtefaa
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Post by tirtefaa on Jul 24, 2022 6:49:30 GMT -5
The biggest problem that wrestling has had for years is the undercard. The main event is what it is, but everyone else is treated as an afterthought. In Russo's years, he was capable of giving everyone something to do whatever their spot was, but his track record of the main event in both WCW and TNA is real bad. So I guess the compromise I would have is he'd be fine with the undercard, but keep him away from the main event entirely. Lance Storm's very first in-person meeting with Russo, apparently only one of two conversations he had with him in WCW, involved Russo immediately suggesting Lance should be Bischoff's illegitimate son. Neither Storm nor Eric were impressed. While that is indeed a bad idea, I'll never understand why Lance is so resentful of Russo and Disco Inferno. I like Lance, but he was honestly treated quite well with Russo booking him. The product was getting better and Lance likely would have been World Champion in 2001 had WCW remained alive. Does he truly think that Russo was the reason that WCW folded?
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Post by eJm on Jul 24, 2022 8:00:31 GMT -5
Now I never saw much of Russo's WCW run and very little of his TNA run. But his WWF run had one thing I did like. That was how he made sure that no matter where someone was on the card they had some kind of storyline going on. I've seen this said many times over the years, and my response to it has always been that yes, he made sure everyone had something to do; the problem is that most of what he gave them was shit, and a lot of those people probably would have been better off if he'd just not given them anything. That is the counterpoint to it. I’m not saying Sean Morley was going to be a big star but when the gimmick you’re known for is “porn star”, the upwards mobility is really limited. Same with a lot of other gimmicks in the midcard Russo gave people. The stuff might be stuff to do but they also might pigeonhole someone for the rest of their careers if they can’t take advantage of it.
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Post by Baldobomb-22-OH-MAN!!! on Jul 24, 2022 8:22:14 GMT -5
Since no one could confirm if he was solely responsible for Attitude TV or if he was co-writing it I would say his biggest work was TNA 2009. Then Hogan showed up and ruined it all. His biggest personal achievement was getting rid of Hogan in WCW even if it was by accident. He was booking a pretty fun show in TNA before Hogan came in and almost killed the company. nothing that was going to change the world but it was the one time TNA came off like the fun alternative to WWE it always should have been. and yeah him putting Hogan in his place for the first time in his life, as unprofessional as it probably was, was funny as f*** to me. same as when Shawn humiliated him in 2005. any time Hogan gets made to look stupid is good television for me.
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msc
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Post by msc on Jul 24, 2022 8:26:36 GMT -5
Val Venis being a nutter to the point they were taking the piss out of it on screen in 1999 already might have pigeonholed him too.
The bonus of Russo's 1998-99 period that everyone on TV seemed to want something, even if it was just Vonnegut's glass of water, and this translated to the crowd. But that would involve everything from Godfather wanting to have a good time to Mark Henry's sex addiction. And others, Bart Gunn for example, were lost in the cracks entirely.
I disliked the racism, the shooty-ness and the sleazy angles.
There have been small periods of time since 1999 in WWE when everyone on TV has had a reason to want something, and AEW tend to be decent at it, which suggests you can take Russo's positives and still not have to deal with his faults.
But then you could do that for Heyman's booking too.
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Post by eJm on Jul 24, 2022 8:34:39 GMT -5
Val Venis being a nutter to the point they were taking the piss out of it on screen in 1999 already might have pigeonholed him too. That’s fair. He was just the first guy I thought of.
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msc
Dennis Stamp
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Post by msc on Jul 24, 2022 9:04:11 GMT -5
Val Venis being a nutter to the point they were taking the piss out of it on screen in 1999 already might have pigeonholed him too. That’s fair. He was just the first guy I thought of. True, doesn't detract from the overall point. Just the specific wrestler was, well, you know. Beaver Cleavage/Chaz on other hand pretty much terminated Chaz Warringtons prospects.
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Post by nakedmideon on Jul 24, 2022 9:19:02 GMT -5
I think a lot of the flack Russo gets is justified.for me it was the right man at the right time and he was always going to have a very short shelf life with his style of booking. Having said that i think he does deserve some credit for some great storylines.The Rock winning the title and build up to survivor series 98 was some great writing and one of my favourite angles
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tafkaga
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Post by tafkaga on Jul 24, 2022 10:54:17 GMT -5
Russo destroyed my interest in every product he touched. Die-hard WWF fan, and Attitude killed my interest. WCW supporter, and Russo drove me away. TNA 2005 brought me back to watching wrestling on a weekly basis, and then there's Russo.
Russo has had some genuinely very good ideas, but he follows every good idea up with 10 ideas that absolutely just suck ass on an infuriating level. So if I could hack Skynet, I would send a T800 back to about 1996 to save wrestling.
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Post by Baldobomb-22-OH-MAN!!! on Jul 24, 2022 11:13:32 GMT -5
Val Venis being a nutter to the point they were taking the piss out of it on screen in 1999 already might have pigeonholed him too. That’s fair. He was just the first guy I thought of. were people actually taking pot shots at him about it that far back? I have no memory of this.
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msc
Dennis Stamp
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Post by msc on Jul 24, 2022 11:23:50 GMT -5
That’s fair. He was just the first guy I thought of. were people actually taking pot shots at him about it that far back? I have no memory of this. I remember commentary mentioning he was always on with his "interesting views" now and again. But chiefly the Al Snow rib where, during the missing dog (eaten by Bossman) skits, he put up a Pepper Hotline for folk to phone if they saw his dog. It was Val's mobile and he was inundated with calls! From a few shoots this was very popular as it was a frequent ribbee getting a good one on someone not as popular in the locker room.
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Post by johnnyk9 on Jul 24, 2022 14:04:37 GMT -5
Russo is not a bad person imo
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Mozenrath
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Post by Mozenrath on Jul 24, 2022 15:18:18 GMT -5
The biggest problem that wrestling has had for years is the undercard. The main event is what it is, but everyone else is treated as an afterthought. In Russo's years, he was capable of giving everyone something to do whatever their spot was, but his track record of the main event in both WCW and TNA is real bad. So I guess the compromise I would have is he'd be fine with the undercard, but keep him away from the main event entirely. Lance Storm's very first in-person meeting with Russo, apparently only one of two conversations he had with him in WCW, involved Russo immediately suggesting Lance should be Bischoff's illegitimate son. Neither Storm nor Eric were impressed. While that is indeed a bad idea, I'll never understand why Lance is so resentful of Russo and Disco Inferno. I like Lance, but he was honestly treated quite well with Russo booking him. The product was getting better and Lance likely would have been World Champion in 2001 had WCW remained alive. Does he truly think that Russo was the reason that WCW folded? He definitely doesn't blame the folding on Russo, no. Like, hotshotting and poorly explained stipulations that weren't carried out contributed to WCW's problems, but those are both happened before and after Russo, too. He just had a different booking philosophy than Russo and some of the others. Like, it's probably worth remembering that for a portion of his time in ECW, it was Storm, Raven, and Dreamer booking it together because Heyman was either too busy or creatively drained, so that probably was a contributing factor to Lance having his own stance on how it ought to be done. He also said Disco Inferno's ideas were worse than Russo's, for what it's worth.
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