Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2022 16:52:04 GMT -5
I agree with a lot of what Vince Russo says.
I know, that's extremely unpopular and everything. But I can't help it. I feel like he sees wrestling the way I do. As an entertainment TV show that should keep you guessing and wondering what's gonna happen next.
WWE was at its best when he was writing for them. And he always found something for everyone to do. From Austin to Steve Blackman to Kai En Tai to Mosh.
I am not going to get into his WCW stuff. Because I can't really justify some of those decisions... I can KINDA get where he's coming from when he says putting the title on David Arquette was a good decision, Marketing and popularity wise. I mean he WAS really hot around the time and seeing him hold the WCW Title alongside the likes of Courtney Cox and Kevin Costner was huge for WCW. They were failing in the ratings and they needed that publicity from the American media. Whether you like it or not, it got a LOT of people talking.
As for himself winning the title? I got nothing. The only "positive" I can see is that they needed to do SOMETHING and to be fair, he did get Speared through the Cage. He didn't actually beat anybody.
Whether you like him or not, I feel like he knows more than most people what "works" in terms of popularity and ratings. Most people won't agree with his takes because they're probably not politically correct in 2022 or whatever, but does that mean they STILL wouldn't work?
His takes are basically "Nobody wants to watch regular guys who look like your neighbours. All of the titles are props to further the storylines. Nobody actually wins anything" - Is any of this REALLY wrong? Or is the reputation around him simply too heavy for people to really listen to him?
Thoughts on his wrestling takes?
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Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on Jul 23, 2022 16:55:14 GMT -5
Firstly, Russo said things about how Americans do not want to see any foreign talent at all, some straight up racist shit
Secondly, Russo is very good at saying the right thing in shoots about how he would book things and his track record as a booker demonstrates that he does not book that way at all
Thirdly, his booking of women is misogynist as f***
So, no. I don't agree
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Post by carp (SPC, Itoh Respect Army) on Jul 23, 2022 16:55:50 GMT -5
I agree with a lot of what Vince Russo says. I know, that's extremely unpopular and everything. But I can't help it. I feel like he sees wrestling the way I do. As an entertainment TV show that should keep you guessing and wondering what's gonna happen next. WWE was at its best when he was writing for them. And he always found something for everyone to do. From Austin to Steve Blackman to Kai En Tai to Mosh. I am not going to get into his WCW stuff. Because I can't really justify some of those decisions... I can KINDA get where he's coming from when he says putting the title on David Arquette was a good decision, Marketing and popularity wise. I mean he WAS really hot around the time and seeing him hold the WCW Title alongside the likes of Courtney Cox and Kevin Costner was huge for WCW. They were failing in the ratings and they needed that publicity from the American media. Whether you like it or not, it got a LOT of people talking. As for himself winning the title? I got nothing. The only "positive" I can see is that they needed to do SOMETHING and to be fair, he did get Speared through the Cage. He didn't actually beat anybody. Whether you like him or not, I feel like he knows more than most people what "works" in terms of popularity and ratings. Most people won't agree with his takes because they're probably not politically correct in 2022 or whatever, but does that mean they STILL wouldn't work? His takes are basically "Nobody wants to watch regular guys who look like your neighbours. All of the titles are props to further the storylines. Nobody actually wins anything" - Is any of this REALLY wrong? Or is the reputation around him simply too heavy for people to really listen to him? Thoughts on his wrestling takes? Everyone likes Vince Russo if they don't consider all the things he does they don't like. Also, yes, none of his racist shit would work in 2022.
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Post by eJm on Jul 23, 2022 16:57:09 GMT -5
I'll be honest, this feels like the least surprising confession ever. It'd be like if I admitted that I love Southpaw Regional Wrestling.
And also, if Russo's logic is so successful...why didn't it work anywhere else he worked? Because by that logic, TNA should be the biggest company in the world.
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Post by Jonathan Coachman on Jul 23, 2022 16:57:23 GMT -5
Never liked Russo’s booking at all. but I will say at least he did something different or at least tried to do something different it didn’t work most of the time but I appreciate that he tried I guess.
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XIII
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Posts: 18,561
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Post by XIII on Jul 23, 2022 17:07:35 GMT -5
Vince Russo was a decent Booker in the early days of crash tv, but he never evolved past that and has some atrocious takes on things(foreign talent, women, etc.)
He’s a punchline and that’s the best compliment that I can give him at this point.
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Allie Kitsune
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Always Feelin' Foxy.
Celestial Princess in Exile.
Posts: 46,145
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Post by Allie Kitsune on Jul 23, 2022 17:14:45 GMT -5
I'll be honest, this feels like the least surprising confession ever. It'd be like if I admitted that I love Southpaw Regional Wrestling. And also, if Russo's logic is so successful...why didn't it work anywhere else he worked? Because by that logic, TNA should be the biggest company in the world. The most charitably I can say is this : He was a man for a specific time and a specific place. And it wasn't a very long time.
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Post by Natural Born Farmer on Jul 23, 2022 17:19:36 GMT -5
When he had an editor, he made compelling TV. I personally didn’t like it, I don’t think wrestling conforms to TV norms, but the stuff he liked got high ratings.
But when he got the chance to run it all his way it was a disaster.
Surely a biz school lesson there.
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Fundertaker
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Posts: 8,932
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Post by Fundertaker on Jul 23, 2022 17:21:20 GMT -5
... you're our fool.
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Post by BlackoutCreature on Jul 23, 2022 17:39:35 GMT -5
Russo is a good idea man. He can think outside of the box in an industry that sometimes has a very very hard time doing that. And granted, sometimes they have really good reasons for not deviating too far from the norm. But at the same time it is a really good idea to have someone on the team who will tell you "wait, we always do it that way, why don't we try something completely different?".
Where Russo fails is his complete inability to translate these ideas into an entertaining, compelling and coherent on-screen story. Whatever he's seeing in his head is not what's coming through on television. Even when he manages to start something interesting, he usually wastes any goodwill he builds up with that by quickly losing interest and either dropping things completely or overloading them with so much extraneous crap that the original idea is all but lost.
He could genuinely be a useful member to a booking team with like a half dozen other guys who can filter out his diamonds in the rough and keep him focused on the narrative at hand, but not as a solo guy. And his ego, behavior and reputation have made him toxic for anybody to want to use him in that team capacity.
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Post by eJm on Jul 23, 2022 17:48:05 GMT -5
Russo is a good idea man. He can think outside of the box in an industry that sometimes has a very very hard time doing that. And granted, sometimes they have really good reasons for not deviating too far from the norm. But at the same time it is a really good idea to have someone on the team who will tell you "wait, we always do it that way, why don't we try something completely different?". Where Russo fails is his complete inability to translate these ideas into an entertaining, compelling and coherent on-screen story. Whatever he's seeing in his head is not what's coming through on television. Even when he manages to start something interesting, he usually wastes any goodwill he builds up with that by quickly losing interest and either dropping things completely or overloading them with so much extraneous crap that the original idea is all but lost. He could genuinely be a useful member to a booking team with like a half dozen other guys who can filter out his diamonds in the rough and keep him focused on the narrative at hand, but not as a solo guy. And his ego, behavior and reputation have made him toxic for anybody to want to use him in that team capacity. He’s also very, very good at blaming everyone else for his issues and trying to throw them under the bus to management. Turner Standards and practices are to blame for his ideas not fufilling their potential. Eric Bischoff/Jeff Jarrett/Jerry Jarrett were plotting against me. The locker room hated my ideas and also plotted against me. The women wanted to do more than say “Bitch” and show their boobs. The wrestlers wanted to wrestle with more time and how dare they?! Like, I get this stuff is hard but he has no awareness of how much he helped make some of that culture what it was, especially in WCW and TNA where he had way more control.
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Allie Kitsune
Crow T. Robot
Always Feelin' Foxy.
Celestial Princess in Exile.
Posts: 46,145
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Post by Allie Kitsune on Jul 23, 2022 17:48:19 GMT -5
Russo is a good idea man. He can think outside of the box in an industry that sometimes has a very very hard time doing that. And granted, sometimes they have really good reasons for not deviating too far from the norm. But at the same time it is a really good idea to have someone on the team who will tell you "wait, we always do it that way, why don't we try something completely different?". Where Russo fails is his complete inability to translate these ideas into an entertaining, compelling and coherent on-screen story. Whatever he's seeing in his head is not what's coming through on television. Even when he manages to start something interesting, he usually wastes any goodwill he builds up with that by quickly losing interest and either dropping things completely or overloading them with so much extraneous crap that the original idea is all but lost. He could genuinely be a useful member to a booking team with like a half dozen other guys who can filter out his diamonds in the rough and keep him focused on the narrative at hand, but not as a solo guy. And his ego, behavior and reputation have made him toxic for anybody to want to use him in that team capacity. Not to mention, having that many filters telling him "No, Vince. You can't DO this. And this is why..." on a professional level (instead of a personal one) might actually eventually get through his head and make him a less toxic person.
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Post by evilone on Jul 23, 2022 17:56:06 GMT -5
Since no one could confirm if he was solely responsible for Attitude TV or if he was co-writing it I would say his biggest work was TNA 2009. Then Hogan showed up and ruined it all. His biggest personal achievement was getting rid of Hogan in WCW even if it was by accident.
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El Pollo Guerrera
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Post by El Pollo Guerrera on Jul 23, 2022 18:01:25 GMT -5
I don't like Russo's work because he wasn't writing wrestling for wrestling fans.
He was writing soap opera for casual fans who wanted to see a spectacle.
That said, I want to see if he has a movie script in his mind... what kind of disasterpiece that would be...
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Jul 23, 2022 18:08:13 GMT -5
Russo was never any good. 90% of what he came up with was the trash you saw in the Attitude undercard. He wasn’t the main mind behind the hot main events.
All of his modern takes are pretty much shit. He really doesn’t understand professional wrestling at all.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2022 18:09:59 GMT -5
And tbf no one's surprised
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Post by Mister Pigwell on Jul 23, 2022 18:27:59 GMT -5
This is my shocked face, OP...
-_-
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Post by "Playboy" Don Douglas on Jul 23, 2022 19:14:51 GMT -5
I remember Dutch Mantell saying that after a booking meeting in TNA one time, Russo said, “I don’t get it, bro.” Dutch asked, “Don’t get what?” Russo replied, “The good guy - bad guy thing.”
Dutch, remembering Russo’s professed faith, said, “Welll, Vince, there’s a book that might help you understand.” Russo asked what it was, and Dutch told him, “The Bible.”
The thing is, I get “shades of gray “ to an extent, but it’s like Russo was never able to see “black and white” at all, even in a fictional setting.
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Post by Tiger Millionaire on Jul 23, 2022 19:18:14 GMT -5
That WCW stuff was so bad, and I was a religious WCW watcher at the time.
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Mozenrath
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Post by Mozenrath on Jul 23, 2022 19:25:27 GMT -5
Lance Storm's very first in-person meeting with Russo, apparently only one of two conversations he had with him in WCW, involved Russo immediately suggesting Lance should be Bischoff's illegitimate son. Neither Storm nor Eric were impressed.
I do not think Russo's talents extend far past flattery and making powerful friends. I'll give him some credit in that he sometimes championed wrestlers who were good, like D'lo Brown or Jarrett to an extent. (I do think adding JJ to the main event scene was a decent idea in WCW, but a lot like DDP and Booker T, it doesn't mean they booked him well when he got there. Did anyone not named Steiner look like a competent champion from 2000 onward?
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