For fellow dislikers of the Undisputed Elite story: fix it

[Final Countdown Jones]

Jul 31, 2022 23:40:16 GMT -5 toodarkmark said:

Jul 31, 2022 11:52:32 GMT -5 "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay said:

So AEW after a period of near universal acclaim on this board

Im sorry what? Ive been on this board way before AEW started, and this board has been EXTREMELY negative towards AEW. Reddit is more positive. There are constant flame wars from people who go "I WANT TO BE MORE NEGATIVE TOWARDS AEW! THEY WONT LET ME BE NEGATIVE TOWARDS AEW!"

These weird critiques, from "it's just a t-shirt company", to "look they couldnt even get Pac to show up" to 50 pages about how much Cody sucks, are just part of the whole thing, and this forum has never had anything even close to universal acclaim. How many people dont even come into the room because of how negative towards AEW this forum is. Dang, even the Vince McMahon stepping down thread in the WWE section became a "I hate Tony Khan" thread until the the mods stopped it.

"Many people are expressing dissatisfaction" might as well be the name of the forum. A match appreciation gets two pages tops, something negative, like a wrestler quitting, gets 15 pages and a complete analysis of everything wrong with the company. Undisputed Elite havent been on TV in a month and theres a thread about how much it sucks and how it can be fixed! A whole month away and people are still focused on what they hate about it! Near universal acclaim my ass.

This is focusing on the negatives to a degree that might make being here not super healthy for you. A match appreciation thread gets less than a big, dramatic backstage issue because a match appreciation thread is mostly people coming in and saying 'Wow that was good' and there's usually not a ton of interaction, so the thread spills off unless somehow an argument breaks out in it or it shifts toward being a conversation about some other issue. Someone leaving gets 15 pages because it's an evolving story people can disagree on in different ways, and the combination of updates and diversity of thought means that there's more life to the conversation. That's not an expression of negativity over positivity, that's just the fundamentals of online conversations. Summerslam was a show people seem to ahve really enjoyed and it's got tons of positive buzz on the WWE board but yeah of course it's going to be dwarfed by the big news stories and even talk surrounding it is largely focused on speculation on the future and on how the news is effecting things.

So many of the weirdo trolls who came in just to stir shit have been banned. But conversely, last week's Dynamite got really high ratings in the rating thread. By the overwhelming majority, people like AEW on this board and they talk positively about it. When they don't, it's from a place of being a fan and wanting things to be better, which is the nuance you've really lost in this response. People dislike the Undisputed Elite because they like the show and see the team/story as a continued exposure of some of AEW's biggest weaknesses in terms of adjusting to plans and moving a story forward. You can like something, dislike a part of it, and still be positive toward the whole package. That's normal. That's functioning discourse. "We have to be aggressively positive about everything, can't dislike any of it, I'll fight you for not loving everything" is not functioning discourse. People who like the show want it to be better, and that's not a mark of negativity, that's a mark of actually giving a shit.

[Mozenrath]

I like Cole, KOR's alright, and Fish... okay, I don't like Fish.

Anyway, I think part of the problem is that they are sort of given an unearned importance sometimes. Like Adam Cole loses against Orange Cassidy and then basically immediately after gets a title match before declaring, "You got lucky" and then being given another title match. That was really WWE booking, to be frank. They also got a shitload of airtime while being associated with the Bucks' own often inconsistent characters. It's serving the point of painting the picture of the Bucks' uneasy ties, and I get that, where they like Cole but they also grudgingly still had feelings of friendship towards Cole after all the shit they'd subjected him to, and Cole can't just leave it be. That's fine, but it just... kind of wears on the nerves when it feels like the Best Friends and other acts have had to bend over backwards to prop the act up without getting much in return for it.

I'd honestly try to downplay them a bit and maybe have Cole play support to a feud ReDragon have going with someone, rather than the other way around. At least until Omega's back around and they can get that shit out of their system.

[A Platypus Rave]

Aug 1, 2022 5:27:05 GMT -5 Mozenrath said:

I like Cole, KOR's alright, and Fish... okay, I don't like Fish.

Anyway, I think part of the problem is that they are sort of given an unearned importance sometimes. Like Adam Cole loses against Orange Cassidy and then basically immediately after gets a title match before declaring, "You got lucky" and then being given another title match. That was really WWE booking, to be frank. They also got a shitload of airtime while being associated with the Bucks' own often inconsistent characters. It's serving the point of painting the picture of the Bucks' uneasy ties, and I get that, where they like Cole but they also grudgingly still had feelings of friendship towards Cole after all the shit they'd subjected him to, and Cole can't just leave it be. That's fine, but it just... kind of wears on the nerves when it feels like the Best Friends and other acts have had to bend over backwards to prop the act up without getting much in return for it.

I'd honestly try to downplay them a bit and maybe have Cole play support to a feud ReDragon have going with someone, rather than the other way around. At least until Omega's back around and they can get that shit out of their system.

which again is hte problem is that they're all basically doing nothing while Omega's out... except kinda just telling us how important they are without having them do anything important.

[sunnytaker]

Jul 31, 2022 12:18:31 GMT -5 Bo Rida said:

Actually progress the story is the main thing. Especially with Hangman and the Bucks.

I'd also limit singles matches for Redragon, certainly no more high profile wins until after the stable starts to split.

i have the feeling the whole thing was expected to have either begun or be building to a finale at this point but omega's slow progress on the rehab has dragged things out to this point. likewise the delay in the trios titles. now that they are gearing up for that i expect omega to be return to TV at least, if not back wrestling, by the end of the month to finally get this thing going.

say maybe cole and the bucks (i think redragon are still to injured to wrestle atm the last i heard) get to the finals but lose, then omega shows up and the three of them beat the hell out of cole for "blowing it". bonus points if britt stays heel after cole turns face and she takes his place in the Elite since they seem to be adding a few more women to the factions lately.

[1 Free Moon-Down with Burger]

I honestly don’t know how to fix it.

My knee jerk answer was just “Don’t do it in the first place and send KOR to Ring of Honor.”

[Ishmeal Loves Kaseyhausen]

I think a lot of what’s been happening with the Bucks, Hangman, UE, etc was everyone spinning their wheels until Kenny returns and the trios belts are introduced. Not making excuses just an observation

[thirteen3]

Tell a different story.

[ASYLUMHAUSEN]

Jul 31, 2022 23:40:16 GMT -5 toodarkmark said:

Jul 31, 2022 11:52:32 GMT -5 "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay said:

So AEW after a period of near universal acclaim on this board

Im sorry what? Ive been on this board way before AEW started, and this board has been EXTREMELY negative towards AEW. Reddit is more positive. There are constant flame wars from people who go "I WANT TO BE MORE NEGATIVE TOWARDS AEW! THEY WONT LET ME BE NEGATIVE TOWARDS AEW!"

These weird critiques, from "it's just a t-shirt company", to "look they couldnt even get Pac to show up" to 50 pages about how much Cody sucks, are just part of the whole thing, and this forum has never had anything even close to universal acclaim. How many people dont even come into the room because of how negative towards AEW this forum is. Dang, even the Vince McMahon stepping down thread in the WWE section became a "I hate Tony Khan" thread until the the mods stopped it.

"Many people are expressing dissatisfaction" might as well be the name of the forum. A match appreciation gets two pages tops, something negative, like a wrestler quitting, gets 15 pages and a complete analysis of everything wrong with the company. Undisputed Elite havent been on TV in a month and theres a thread about how much it sucks and how it can be fixed! A whole month away and people are still focused on what they hate about it! Near universal acclaim my ass.

f***ing THIS. All of this.

[markymark]

Jul 31, 2022 12:38:15 GMT -5 BlackoutCreature said:

They need to do something big with Cole, something that feels important. Right now he's just sitting on his thumbs waiting for Omega to return. This holding pattern has just turned Cole into an afterthought and killed any heat and anticipation people had for a big Undisputed Era-Elite war that they were supposedly building up to.

Jul 31, 2022 23:02:18 GMT -5 Super Duper Dragunov said:

Love KOR and am a fan of Cole, but I echo a lot of the same sentiments here.

TK has a knack for dulling the shine on people, and he's done that with Cole. Dude came in SUPER HOT. The pop during his debut was insane.

But as others have said, send ReDRagon to ROH. It just makes perfect sense. ROH can use another veteran "homegrown" tag team, and Cole needs to break away from them.

Let Cole build himself up solo, let him win clean, let him get over that way, and just be a face for awhile.

You want to do a reunion, do it as a one-time only thing in ROH, ReDRagon are getting beat down 3 on 2, and boom Cole makes the save.
One-off UE reunion match on the next ROH PPV, and you're good.

But don't do that for like 2-3 years at least.

The big screwup by TK was having OC beat him at the end even if it didnt count in the records, it really killed of Coles heat and thats what made fans turn on him.

[DrBackflipsHoffman]

send every single one of them to ROH and keep them there, let everyone except Fish wrestle PWG the every three months or so PWG happens. Keep that plan until some sort of outside force sends the universe off kilter.

[Dub H]

Aug 1, 2022 4:33:33 GMT -5 Final Countdown Jones said:

Jul 31, 2022 23:40:16 GMT -5 toodarkmark said:

Im sorry what? Ive been on this board way before AEW started, and this board has been EXTREMELY negative towards AEW. Reddit is more positive. There are constant flame wars from people who go "I WANT TO BE MORE NEGATIVE TOWARDS AEW! THEY WONT LET ME BE NEGATIVE TOWARDS AEW!"

These weird critiques, from "it's just a t-shirt company", to "look they couldnt even get Pac to show up" to 50 pages about how much Cody sucks, are just part of the whole thing, and this forum has never had anything even close to universal acclaim. How many people dont even come into the room because of how negative towards AEW this forum is. Dang, even the Vince McMahon stepping down thread in the WWE section became a "I hate Tony Khan" thread until the the mods stopped it.

"Many people are expressing dissatisfaction" might as well be the name of the forum. A match appreciation gets two pages tops, something negative, like a wrestler quitting, gets 15 pages and a complete analysis of everything wrong with the company. Undisputed Elite havent been on TV in a month and theres a thread about how much it sucks and how it can be fixed! A whole month away and people are still focused on what they hate about it! Near universal acclaim my ass.

This is focusing on the negatives to a degree that might make being here not super healthy for you. A match appreciation thread gets less than a big, dramatic backstage issue because a match appreciation thread is mostly people coming in and saying 'Wow that was good' and there's usually not a ton of interaction, so the thread spills off unless somehow an argument breaks out in it or it shifts toward being a conversation about some other issue. Someone leaving gets 15 pages because it's an evolving story people can disagree on in different ways, and the combination of updates and diversity of thought means that there's more life to the conversation. That's not an expression of negativity over positivity, that's just the fundamentals of online conversations. Summerslam was a show people seem to ahve really enjoyed and it's got tons of positive buzz on the WWE board but yeah of course it's going to be dwarfed by the big news stories and even talk surrounding it is largely focused on speculation on the future and on how the news is effecting things.

So many of the weirdo trolls who came in just to stir shit have been banned. But conversely, last week's Dynamite got really high ratings in the rating thread. By the overwhelming majority, people like AEW on this board and they talk positively about it. When they don't, it's from a place of being a fan and wanting things to be better, which is the nuance you've really lost in this response. People dislike the Undisputed Elite because they like the show and see the team/story as a continued exposure of some of AEW's biggest weaknesses in terms of adjusting to plans and moving a story forward. You can like something, dislike a part of it, and still be positive toward the whole package. That's normal. That's functioning discourse. "We have to be aggressively positive about everything, can't dislike any of it, I'll fight you for not loving everything" is not functioning discourse. People who like the show want it to be better, and that's not a mark of negativity, that's a mark of actually giving a shit.

Yeh I think the comment comes from a place of passion and anger and focuses but its not completely untrue. It is a matter of focusing

But I think the notion that it was Universally Acclaimed becausee it started doing a lot of good stuff and was very well received when there was notable people trying to tear it down and that there is people always trying to (not so subtly, I also dont think it was the case with the OP before it is taken this way) bait negative flames from AEW fans is not completely untrue. It has just became a tiring narrative of the "AEW gets love no matter what they do".

[Final Countdown Jones]

Aug 1, 2022 15:37:26 GMT -5 Dub H said:

Aug 1, 2022 4:33:33 GMT -5 Final Countdown Jones said:

This is focusing on the negatives to a degree that might make being here not super healthy for you. A match appreciation thread gets less than a big, dramatic backstage issue because a match appreciation thread is mostly people coming in and saying 'Wow that was good' and there's usually not a ton of interaction, so the thread spills off unless somehow an argument breaks out in it or it shifts toward being a conversation about some other issue. Someone leaving gets 15 pages because it's an evolving story people can disagree on in different ways, and the combination of updates and diversity of thought means that there's more life to the conversation. That's not an expression of negativity over positivity, that's just the fundamentals of online conversations. Summerslam was a show people seem to ahve really enjoyed and it's got tons of positive buzz on the WWE board but yeah of course it's going to be dwarfed by the big news stories and even talk surrounding it is largely focused on speculation on the future and on how the news is effecting things.

So many of the weirdo trolls who came in just to stir shit have been banned. But conversely, last week's Dynamite got really high ratings in the rating thread. By the overwhelming majority, people like AEW on this board and they talk positively about it. When they don't, it's from a place of being a fan and wanting things to be better, which is the nuance you've really lost in this response. People dislike the Undisputed Elite because they like the show and see the team/story as a continued exposure of some of AEW's biggest weaknesses in terms of adjusting to plans and moving a story forward. You can like something, dislike a part of it, and still be positive toward the whole package. That's normal. That's functioning discourse. "We have to be aggressively positive about everything, can't dislike any of it, I'll fight you for not loving everything" is not functioning discourse. People who like the show want it to be better, and that's not a mark of negativity, that's a mark of actually giving a shit.

Yeh I think the comment comes from a place of passion and anger and focuses but its not completely untrue. It is a matter of focusing

But I think the notion that it was Universally Acclaimed becausee it started doing a lot of good stuff and was very well received when there was notable people trying to tear it down and that there is people always trying to (not so subtly, I also dont think it was the case with the OP before it is taken this way) bait negative flames from AEW fans is not completely untrue. It has just became a tiring narrative of the "AEW gets love no matter what they do".

I think this is ascribing a lot of meaning onto a statement that it doesn't have, and it's a really weird angle for people to take this much issue with.

[Dub H]

Aug 1, 2022 16:36:49 GMT -5 Final Countdown Jones said:

Aug 1, 2022 15:37:26 GMT -5 Dub H said:

Yeh I think the comment comes from a place of passion and anger and focuses but its not completely untrue. It is a matter of focusing

But I think the notion that it was Universally Acclaimed becausee it started doing a lot of good stuff and was very well received when there was notable people trying to tear it down and that there is people always trying to (not so subtly, I also dont think it was the case with the OP before it is taken this way) bait negative flames from AEW fans is not completely untrue. It has just became a tiring narrative of the "AEW gets love no matter what they do".

I think this is ascribing a lot of meaning onto a statement that it doesn't have, and it's a really weird angle for people to take this much issue with.

I agree with your statement but at same time I understand ,if that makes sense.

[Hurbster]

Anyway, fixing the Undisputed Elite storyline. I don't get why they are all just spinning their wheels waiting on Kenny. Surely ReDragon can have a few tag matches or, if Fish is injured again, have KOR fight Danielson/Garcia ect so we get a bloody good technical match out of it.

[kingoftheindies]

Aug 1, 2022 14:08:08 GMT -5 markymark said:

Jul 31, 2022 12:38:15 GMT -5 BlackoutCreature said:

They need to do something big with Cole, something that feels important. Right now he's just sitting on his thumbs waiting for Omega to return. This holding pattern has just turned Cole into an afterthought and killed any heat and anticipation people had for a big Undisputed Era-Elite war that they were supposedly building up to.

Jul 31, 2022 23:02:18 GMT -5 Super Duper Dragunov said:

Love KOR and am a fan of Cole, but I echo a lot of the same sentiments here.

TK has a knack for dulling the shine on people, and he's done that with Cole. Dude came in SUPER HOT. The pop during his debut was insane.

But as others have said, send ReDRagon to ROH. It just makes perfect sense. ROH can use another veteran "homegrown" tag team, and Cole needs to break away from them.

Let Cole build himself up solo, let him win clean, let him get over that way, and just be a face for awhile.

You want to do a reunion, do it as a one-time only thing in ROH, ReDRagon are getting beat down 3 on 2, and boom Cole makes the save.
One-off UE reunion match on the next ROH PPV, and you're good.

But don't do that for like 2-3 years at least.

The big screwup by TK was having OC beat him at the end even if it didnt count in the records, it really killed of Coles heat and thats what made fans turn on him.

I'd agree to an extent. I was fine with OC beating Cole in the lights out match but even with the caveat that doesn't count you cannot immediately put Cole into a World title feud after that match. Gotta give some breathing room. Like Britt lost to Rosa in a Lights Out match on St Patrick's Day and they built her climbing the rankings culminating in her winning the title Memorial Day Weekend. So a bit over 2 months.

Aside from that? I thought Cole still stayed insanely over despite some on the board disliking him. That being said where Tony messed up with the Undisputed Elite is quite simple. Don't start teasing the implosion until you know Kenny is available... or ya know... do what they started to do and tease Hangman making peace with the Bucks earlier. It really made everything from Full Gear onward pretty disjointed for them

[4real]

I don’t think the turn tonight made any sense. Why wouldn’t Cole want the Bucks & Fish to win the trios titles? Unless he didn’t want anyone to win them other than himself. And in doing so may have handed the belts to the Bucks & Hangman.

Think this pretty much confirms Omega is out for longer and won’t be teaming with The Bucks in his tournament.

[Dr. Bolty, Disaster Enby]

Aug 4, 2022 11:33:28 GMT -5 4real said:

I don’t think the turn tonight made any sense. Why wouldn’t Cole want the Bucks & Fish to win the trios titles? Unless he didn’t want anyone to win them other than himself. And in doing so may have handed the belts to the Bucks & Hangman.

Think this pretty much confirms Omega is out for longer and won’t be teaming with The Bucks in his tournament.

It really feels like a step got skipped. Like, we needed just one week of the Bucks snubbing Fish out of the trios tournament spot with them.

It's one of those AEW Things where the pieces of the puzzle are there, but they weren't put together. The Bucks haven't been cozy with Fish, but the story kind of needed to make clear that they are sufficiently uncozy with him to pass on him even when it clearly benefits them.

[Captain Stud Muffin (BLM)]

Aug 1, 2022 4:33:33 GMT -5 Final Countdown Jones said:

Jul 31, 2022 23:40:16 GMT -5 toodarkmark said:

Im sorry what? Ive been on this board way before AEW started, and this board has been EXTREMELY negative towards AEW. Reddit is more positive. There are constant flame wars from people who go "I WANT TO BE MORE NEGATIVE TOWARDS AEW! THEY WONT LET ME BE NEGATIVE TOWARDS AEW!"

These weird critiques, from "it's just a t-shirt company", to "look they couldnt even get Pac to show up" to 50 pages about how much Cody sucks, are just part of the whole thing, and this forum has never had anything even close to universal acclaim. How many people dont even come into the room because of how negative towards AEW this forum is. Dang, even the Vince McMahon stepping down thread in the WWE section became a "I hate Tony Khan" thread until the the mods stopped it.

"Many people are expressing dissatisfaction" might as well be the name of the forum. A match appreciation gets two pages tops, something negative, like a wrestler quitting, gets 15 pages and a complete analysis of everything wrong with the company. Undisputed Elite havent been on TV in a month and theres a thread about how much it sucks and how it can be fixed! A whole month away and people are still focused on what they hate about it! Near universal acclaim my ass.

This is focusing on the negatives to a degree that might make being here not super healthy for you. A match appreciation thread gets less than a big, dramatic backstage issue because a match appreciation thread is mostly people coming in and saying 'Wow that was good' and there's usually not a ton of interaction, so the thread spills off unless somehow an argument breaks out in it or it shifts toward being a conversation about some other issue. Someone leaving gets 15 pages because it's an evolving story people can disagree on in different ways, and the combination of updates and diversity of thought means that there's more life to the conversation. That's not an expression of negativity over positivity, that's just the fundamentals of online conversations. Summerslam was a show people seem to ahve really enjoyed and it's got tons of positive buzz on the WWE board but yeah of course it's going to be dwarfed by the big news stories and even talk surrounding it is largely focused on speculation on the future and on how the news is effecting things.

So many of the weirdo trolls who came in just to stir shit have been banned. But conversely, last week's Dynamite got really high ratings in the rating thread. By the overwhelming majority, people like AEW on this board and they talk positively about it. When they don't, it's from a place of being a fan and wanting things to be better, which is the nuance you've really lost in this response. People dislike the Undisputed Elite because they like the show and see the team/story as a continued exposure of some of AEW's biggest weaknesses in terms of adjusting to plans and moving a story forward. You can like something, dislike a part of it, and still be positive toward the whole package. That's normal. That's functioning discourse. "We have to be aggressively positive about everything, can't dislike any of it, I'll fight you for not loving everything" is not functioning discourse. People who like the show want it to be better, and that's not a mark of negativity, that's a mark of actually giving a shit.

I have said it from jump and will continue to say it, I will not turn a blind eye to things I don’t like in AEW because “I like the product”. If I’m criticizing you in an objective way it is because I want you to succeed big time and not be happy with what they are giving us.

Idk why the negatives always get lumped into the people don’t like the product. Outside of obvious trolls who aren’t even around anymore this board is beyond positive in AEW so I don’t get the focus on the stuff people complain about which are legit in most cases.

[Captain Stud Muffin (BLM)]

I just think they need to do their own thing and not be tied to each other

After watching Undisputed Era in NXT for a few years, I have no desire to really see them functioning as a group and the added wrinkles of Bucks and Omega don’t do much for me

I feel like it’s a bad omen once we get to the KOR/Cole beefing stage of this relationship again cause that shit always happens towards the end tho they both signed long term deals I think so hopefully they can do a feud and not look in each other way for a long time

[Fade]

Aug 4, 2022 12:28:49 GMT -5 Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) said:

I just think they need to do their own thing and not be tied to each other

After watching Undisputed Era in NXT for a few years, I have no desire to really see them functioning as a group and the added wrinkles of Bucks and Omega don’t do much for me

I feel like it’s a bad omen once we get to the KOR/Cole beefing stage of this relationship again cause that shit always happens towards the end tho they both signed long term deals I think so hopefully they can do a feud and not look in each other way for a long time

More or less I agree with this. It’s the route they prbly should have taken (all things considered) but they really really want that Elite Vs UE blowoff match.