lucas_lee
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Post by lucas_lee on Dec 14, 2023 7:00:12 GMT -5
Kevin has actually said he didn’t want Fritz to be portrayed as a monster, and that was one of his worries heading into it. I saw the critics screening tonight and watched Heroes of World Class this afternoon for a quick refresher. I'll say this - everything Fritz does in 'Iron Claw' is something Kevin said that he did from his own mouth in his own words in 'Heroes of World Class.' While Kevin in 'Heroes...' follows saying all the horrible shit Fritz did with "but he wasn't abusive, I know that it sounds like an abusive family, but it wasn't" when it clearly was just hearing him talking about it. Then seeing it on-screen, you really feel it. So, to put it diplomatically, the film portrays Fritz exactly how Kevin would describe him - but anyone watching Fritz do what Kevin said he did would walk away thinking he's a monster. The one difference is that Fritz's dad doesn't get any reference or mention in the movie, and in 'Heroes,' he's the one who Kevin feels comfortable running down and blaming his treatment of Fritz for how Fritz treated all his children. How did you feel about them omitting Chris Von Erich? To me that's one of the bigger head scratchers since his story is so tragic.
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Post by Muskrat on Dec 14, 2023 9:51:46 GMT -5
Us Brits are going to have to wait til February for this unfortunately. Don’t worry, this will have DVD screener quality pirate copies of this online probably the first week. Why are staggered release dates still a thing when they’ve been proven to be one of the biggest drivers of movie piracy? Especially now, when high quality pirate copies are dropping way quicker then in the past
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chrom
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Post by chrom on Dec 14, 2023 10:09:50 GMT -5
I knew this was being made but had no clue it was coming out next week until I saw an add on instagram. As f***ed up as it sounds, I can't wait. I really hope it tears apart Fritz. Kevin has actually said he didn’t want Fritz to be portrayed as a monster, and that was one of his worries heading into it. Fritz probably manipulated him and the others into thinking he always knew what was best even as they died one by one because he was their Father and any flaws he had weren't as bad as others claimed.
It's a tactic I'm afraid many parents did and still use. Would you believe your own Father, or someone who wasn't your flesh and blood?
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chazraps
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Post by chazraps on Dec 14, 2023 16:43:38 GMT -5
I saw the critics screening tonight and watched Heroes of World Class this afternoon for a quick refresher. I'll say this - everything Fritz does in 'Iron Claw' is something Kevin said that he did from his own mouth in his own words in 'Heroes of World Class.' While Kevin in 'Heroes...' follows saying all the horrible shit Fritz did with "but he wasn't abusive, I know that it sounds like an abusive family, but it wasn't" when it clearly was just hearing him talking about it. Then seeing it on-screen, you really feel it. So, to put it diplomatically, the film portrays Fritz exactly how Kevin would describe him - but anyone watching Fritz do what Kevin said he did would walk away thinking he's a monster. The one difference is that Fritz's dad doesn't get any reference or mention in the movie, and in 'Heroes,' he's the one who Kevin feels comfortable running down and blaming his treatment of Fritz for how Fritz treated all his children. How did you feel about them omitting Chris Von Erich? To me that's one of the bigger head scratchers since his story is so tragic. Honestly, I'm still wrestling with it. I can't imagine how it would pain the family to have a whole person omitted, especially one whose death largely stems from depression of not being able to wrestle on the level of his brothers and felt excluded in life. So, on a level of empathy, it hit me a lot more a day removed from watching it the gravity of a person being gone. That said, in a vacuum and divorcing it from the real life story, as a movie I don't see how you could put that additional sad story in there. It, like Fritz's initial reaction to David's death or the Fritz heart attack angle, might have been too much for an audience to believe despite it actually happening. I'm normally fine with poetic license if it makes the movie better... but yeah it's been hanging with me all day that it's a whole ass brother in a movie about brothers that was gone. Here's my full review, recorded last night, that went live today:
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lucas_lee
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Post by lucas_lee on Dec 14, 2023 16:55:51 GMT -5
How did you feel about them omitting Chris Von Erich? To me that's one of the bigger head scratchers since his story is so tragic. Honestly, I'm still wrestling with it. I can't imagine how it would pain the family to have a whole person omitted, especially one whose death largely stems from depression of not being able to wrestle on the level of his brothers and felt excluded in life. So, on a level of empathy, it hit me a lot more a day removed from watching it the gravity of a person being gone. That said, in a vacuum and divorcing it from the real life story, as a movie I don't see how you could put that additional sad story in there. It, like Fritz's initial reaction to David's death or the Fritz heart attack angle, might have been too much for an audience to believe despite it actually happening. I'm normally fine with poetic license if it makes the movie better... but yeah it's been hanging with me all day that it's a whole ass brother in a movie about brothers that was gone. Here's my full review, recorded last night, that went live today: Oh man they left out Fritz heart attack adventures. I get why they omit that
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lucas_lee
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Heel turn is finished, now stripping away my personality
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Post by lucas_lee on Dec 15, 2023 7:29:56 GMT -5
How did you feel about them omitting Chris Von Erich? To me that's one of the bigger head scratchers since his story is so tragic. Honestly, I'm still wrestling with it. I can't imagine how it would pain the family to have a whole person omitted, especially one whose death largely stems from depression of not being able to wrestle on the level of his brothers and felt excluded in life. So, on a level of empathy, it hit me a lot more a day removed from watching it the gravity of a person being gone. That said, in a vacuum and divorcing it from the real life story, as a movie I don't see how you could put that additional sad story in there. It, like Fritz's initial reaction to David's death or the Fritz heart attack angle, might have been too much for an audience to believe despite it actually happening. I'm normally fine with poetic license if it makes the movie better... but yeah it's been hanging with me all day that it's a whole ass brother in a movie about brothers that was gone. Here's my full review, recorded last night, that went live today: Thinking about it more too. I wonder if Kevin was okay with that one as well because he was the one who discovered Chris dead and has massive regrets over the last conversation he had with Chris. So perhaps he didn't want to see it.
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Post by buckethead on Dec 20, 2023 18:50:23 GMT -5
I saw the critics screening tonight and watched Heroes of World Class this afternoon for a quick refresher. I'll say this - everything Fritz does in 'Iron Claw' is something Kevin said that he did from his own mouth in his own words in 'Heroes of World Class.' While Kevin in 'Heroes...' follows saying all the horrible shit Fritz did with "but he wasn't abusive, I know that it sounds like an abusive family, but it wasn't" when it clearly was just hearing him talking about it. Then seeing it on-screen, you really feel it. So, to put it diplomatically, the film portrays Fritz exactly how Kevin would describe him - but anyone watching Fritz do what Kevin said he did would walk away thinking he's a monster. The one difference is that Fritz's dad doesn't get any reference or mention in the movie, and in 'Heroes,' he's the one who Kevin feels comfortable running down and blaming his treatment of Fritz for how Fritz treated all his children. How did you feel about them omitting Chris Von Erich? To me that's one of the bigger head scratchers since his story is so tragic. Worthy of a personal boycott but since I've waited 30 years for a Von Erich film, I'm gonna have to bite the bullet and watch it. I don't like movies that do this to such an extent. Erasing a family member from existence is essentially turning it into fiction.
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BK From WV
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Post by BK From WV on Dec 21, 2023 22:03:17 GMT -5
Just saw it a short time ago. I really enjoyed it. Well, I enjoyed it as much as one can during such a downer of a film. But I thought it was well done. A few things bothered me timeline wise but not enough to take me out of the movie.
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Post by Koda, Master Crunchyroller on Dec 21, 2023 22:54:15 GMT -5
Absolutely loved it. Acting was phenomenal, and of course it tears at your emotions. It does suck they left out Chris entirely, and of course play around with some other details, but I can see why. Not only is the film already crammed to the gills as it already is(if I do have any negatives with the film it is basically that everyone that isn’t Kevin isn’t as developed as I think they could be, though the actors do the best with what they have to work with, elevating the material that is there, and they often will leap forward in time and sometimes you don’t immediately know that they did, so the timeline especially in the last third is hectic, like one scene Kerry is WWF IC champ, the immediate next scene he is not anymore), but the story of Chris is the darkest and most depressing of all, and emotionally I definitely don’t know if the film could handle his story.
And yeah, I echo what was said earlier how Fritz is portrayed exactly how Kevin himself would probably describe his dad but said portrayal makes it clear to an outside observer that he is a monster. Some of his lines during the context of the scenes they happen in left me in stunned awe of the audacity.
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Post by Ludwig Kaiser’s Walk on Dec 21, 2023 23:02:32 GMT -5
Just saw it a short time ago. I really enjoyed it. Well, I enjoyed it as much as one can during such a downer of a film. But I thought it was well done. A few things bothered me timeline wise but not enough to take me out of the movie. I’m seeing it on Sunday and I’ve already told people that I’m seeing it with to be prepared for how dark it will be.
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fw91
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Post by fw91 on Dec 21, 2023 23:59:23 GMT -5
How does it compare to “The Wrestler?” Haven’t heard a bad thing about it yet
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Scoops
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Post by Scoops on Dec 22, 2023 2:33:44 GMT -5
I just saw this (funnily enough with my brothers) and I thought it was good but I'm too much of a nerd that some of the "dramatized" parts took me out of it. {Spoiler}{Spoiler}{SPOILER: CLICK TO SHOW} The idea that Kevin was a virgin into his twenties was just *chef's Kiss*. I get that with Kevin being the surviving brother they had to make him the protagonist and voice of reason (despite his own issues) but I'm not a fan of making him the oldest, along with some of the other common biopic tropes this movie had. But my biggest issue was how {Spoiler}{Spoiler}{SPOILER: CLICK TO SHOW} it glorified their suicides. I get that it's alluded that it's just Kevin picturing them in heaven. But you can not tell me that a severely depressed person isn't going to walk out of a movie that shows Kerry Von Erich killing himself and then immediately in heaven literally hopping on both feet before meeting his brothers and asking "where's Jackie?" to see a five year that he happily calls his "oldest brother" and not think that suicide is not the solution to their pain and will bring them peace. It literally made me want to cry and not because I was happy for them but because I was disgusted. How does it compare to “The Wrestler?” Haven’t heard a bad thing about it yet The Wrestler is probably the better movie even if I didn't know anything about the Von Erichs but the Wrestler was also about one character so it could be more focused. Oddly enough both kind of {Spoiler}{Spoiler}{SPOILER: CLICK TO SHOW} glorify suicide, but to be fair, The Wrestler really didn't mean too and it was more wrestlers being f***ed in the head and thinking dying in the ring is a good thing. Edit: okay, apparently Kevin was the oldest and I'm just stupid.
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chrom
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Post by chrom on Dec 22, 2023 9:39:03 GMT -5
I thought David was the eldest of them
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Post by Cyno on Dec 22, 2023 19:01:33 GMT -5
Kevin is the second born. The firstborn son, Jack Adkisson Jr, tragically drowned at Niagara Falls at the age of six.
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chazraps
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Post by chazraps on Dec 22, 2023 19:09:39 GMT -5
How does it compare to “The Wrestler?” Haven’t heard a bad thing about it yet Both stellar, but I prefer 'The Iron Claw' solely for liking the director's aesthetic more than Aronofsky's. Wouldn't object to anyone preferring The Wrestler though.
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Post by buckethead on Dec 22, 2023 21:04:22 GMT -5
I just saw this (funnily enough with my brothers) and I thought it was good but I'm too much of a nerd that some of the "dramatized" parts took me out of it. {Spoiler}{Spoiler}{Spoiler}{SPOILER: CLICK TO SHOW} The idea that Kevin was a virgin into his twenties was just *chef's Kiss*. I get that with Kevin being the surviving brother they had to make him the protagonist and voice of reason (despite his own issues) but I'm not a fan of making him the oldest, along with some of the other common biopic tropes this movie had. But my biggest issue was how {Spoiler}{Spoiler}{Spoiler}{SPOILER: CLICK TO SHOW} it glorified their suicides. I get that it's alluded that it's just Kevin picturing them in heaven. But you can not tell me that a severely depressed person isn't going to walk out of a movie that shows Kerry Von Erich killing himself and then immediately in heaven literally hopping on both feet before meeting his brothers and asking "where's Jackie?" to see a five year that he happily calls his "oldest brother" and not think that suicide is not the solution to their pain and will bring them peace. It literally made me want to cry and not because I was happy for them but because I was disgusted. How does it compare to “The Wrestler?” Haven’t heard a bad thing about it yet The Wrestler is probably the better movie even if I didn't know anything about the Von Erichs but the Wrestler was also about one character so it could be more focused. Oddly enough both kind of {Spoiler}{Spoiler}{Spoiler}{SPOILER: CLICK TO SHOW} glorify suicide, but to be fair, The Wrestler really didn't mean too and it was more wrestlers being f***ed in the head and thinking dying in the ring is a good thing. Edit: okay, apparently Kevin was the oldest and I'm just stupid. Wow. No way in hell were any of the Von Erichs virgins. They got Chris a prostitute when he was 12...the rock stars of the family weren't celibate.
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ayumidah
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Post by ayumidah on Dec 23, 2023 0:06:27 GMT -5
It was interesting, they really did change quite a few things, and sped through other things, even with my somewhat limited knowledge of that period in wrestling that gave me pause. The director has claimed in interviews I've read that Kevin was understanding about the omission of Chris.
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Post by EZ: Brainy Bae on Dec 23, 2023 0:40:12 GMT -5
Just got back and thoroughly enjoyed it.
This movie has enough excellent acting, cinematography and emotional weight to be a good introduction to their story. With all movies based on real events you hope the gist and spirit is correct while conceding some details are left out, combined, or selectively emphasized - especially if you're relying on those involved for access and approval in even making it. You hope it's gripping enough for audiences to walk out going "God, I want to learn more about that" and seek other material to fill in gaps or counterpoints. The Iron Claw does that.
I don't say that to absolve the movie; I'm not sure yet how I feel about Chris not being in the film. It's nothing compared to how Kevin or their family must feel and I'm sure it was something discussed in the making. As a film, I could see where it would feel unintentionally like repeating another plot point both in the death and with Michael also never feeling good enough nor having the body for wrestling. Would Chris have driven that further? Absolutely. However, it's not as if his absence, for the purposes of the film, makes Fritz any less culpable or vile. The hardest thing this movie had to do and did IMO was give Fritz enough humanity to see why his sons would listen and revere him as he was actively cutting off their bond with each other AND give their bond that special warmth to make you care as it was taken away.
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Post by Fade is a CodyCryBaby on Dec 23, 2023 12:23:15 GMT -5
How does it compare to “The Wrestler?” Haven’t heard a bad thing about it yet “The Wrestler” is way better as a movie. Different themes though; Wrestler’s about that aging aspect. Iron claw feels more about restraint. “Masculinity” in a bygone era. WTF was with the Ric flair?!
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Cranjis McBasketball
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Post by Cranjis McBasketball on Dec 23, 2023 12:29:15 GMT -5
How does it compare to “The Wrestler?” Haven’t heard a bad thing about it yet “The Wrestler” is way better as a movie. Different themes though; Wrestler’s about that aging aspect. Iron claw feels more about restraint. “Masculinity” in a bygone era. WTF was with the Ric flair?! My thought was they told him “Do an impression of Jim Carey doing an impression of Ric Flair”.
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