Punk's media scrum, Page 54, Muffins, Biting People Bad™

[Final Countdown Jones]

Also, Hangman's comment didn't set this off. We know it didn't set this off not only because Punk already had his run at complaining about the comment in a media interview a week earlier in much calmer terms, but because this issue was said to ahve been worked out back in May and everyone had been under the belief that it was settled. We know it didn't set this off because Punk was also mad about the Colt Cabana rumours, mad because he believed The Elite were spreading rumours about him--and Punk is the only source for that accusation--and had his mind made up that they were responsible. We know it didn't set this off because Punk spent more time talking about Colt Cabana's bank accounts than he spent talking about Adam Page. This was a premeditated hit piece where he went after people he didn't like, and if Jericho was telling him he was locker room cancer before he went out, there was probably tons of animosity with people other than Hangman.

No one incident was responsible for Punk doing what he did and I think trying to pick apart one comment over another is falling for the trap of taking everything that happened there as Punk at his word in good faith just talking about what he was upset about. Y'know. The guy who's claiming they kicked in doors that open out and injured his dog.

[champchumpchange]

So during the scrum, Punk took aim at certain journalists spreading falsehoods on the behalf of some of his coworkers

I wonder what he thinks today with Meltz totally absolving the Bucks of all wrongdoing and basically saying he was the entire problem

[Dub H]

Okay the people arguing that Hangman shoot was out of line is ridiculous, first:

CM PUNK always advocated for unscripted promos and MADE HIS WHOLE CAREER OUT OF UNSCRIPTED SHOOT COMMENTS.


and second HANGMAN SAID NO DIFFERENT OR WORSE THAN EVERY SINGLE OTHER PERSON PUNK FEUDED

[The Captain]

Oct 31, 2022 15:25:27 GMT -5 champchumpchange said:

So during the scrum, Punk took aim at certain journalists spreading falsehoods on the behalf of some of his coworkers

I wonder what he thinks today with Meltz totally absolving the Bucks of all wrongdoing and basically saying he was the entire problem

I can tell you that certain people inclined to hate the Bucks irrationally think they're in his ear and he's covering for them. Even though Sapp and other writers have basically said the same thing.

So you either believe this wide ranging conspiracy theory that the Elite control the dirtsheets. Or you follow Occam's Razor and Punk was fed bad info or intentionally lying.

[Denny Zen is Cooking™]

Oct 31, 2022 15:24:31 GMT -5 Final Countdown Jones said:

Also, Hangman's comment didn't set this off. We know it didn't set this off not only because Punk already had his run at complaining about the comment in a media interview a week earlier in much calmer terms, but because this issue was said to ahve been worked out back in May and everyone had been under the belief that it was settled. We know it didn't set this off because Punk was also mad about the Colt Cabana rumours, mad because he believed The Elite were spreading rumours about him--and Punk is the only source for that accusation--and had his mind made up that they were responsible. We know it didn't set this off because Punk spent more time talking about Colt Cabana's bank accounts than he spent talking about Adam Page. This was a premeditated hit piece where he went after people he didn't like, and if Jericho was telling him he was locker room cancer before he went out, there was probably tons of animosity with people other than Hangman.

No one incident was responsible for Punk doing what he did and I think trying to pick apart one comment over another is falling for the trap of taking everything that happened there as Punk at his word in good faith just talking about what he was upset about. Y'know. The guy who's claiming they kicked in doors that open out and injured his dog.

I agree, I don't think that any one single event can be held as singularly responsible for a meltdown of this spectacular a magnitude. 

I was just saying, if everything that has been publicly reported is to be believed, then that promo/line was the seed of paranoia that was planted in Punk that grew into what ended up happening at All Out. And even that is crazy to me, because that line was so innocuous in the grand scheme of things. 

[Allie Kitsune]

Oct 31, 2022 15:10:15 GMT -5 chazraps said:

Oct 31, 2022 13:15:45 GMT -5 markymark said:

411mania.com/wrestling/ace-steel-references-aew-all-out-fallout-manipulators/

See, this is why Ace and Punk and the like co-opting actual mental health terminology and using them are f***ing awful. Like, f***ing, you bit a guy - how is THAT not overstepping a big boundary? It was in the aftermath of someone else inviting anyone to come talk to him - which is in the most literal way setting a boundary that others then abided by.

If Punk's relationship with a mental health advocate has given him anything, it's passing on terms normally used to help to instead further manipulate and abuse others.

Also, Hangman Page's "workers rights" comment wasn't wrong at all. If Punk took personal issue with it, then maybe it's his fault for being a massive hypocrite about workers rights to begin with.

Also, if Ace hates manipulators, why is his nose surgically attached to the ass of one of the biggest manipulators the business has seen outside of the Kliq?

[DichEvans]

There is a lot of bashing of Punk's in ring work on Twitter, which i find weird. Way too fans confuse not liking someone, with them being "bad".

Although already forgotten, his match against Mox was one of the best storytelling matches wrestling has had in ages. It's a shame his mouth had to ruin that moment.

[Rave]

Oct 31, 2022 15:08:42 GMT -5 Final Countdown Jones said:

Oct 31, 2022 13:15:45 GMT -5 markymark said:

411mania.com/wrestling/ace-steel-references-aew-all-out-fallout-manipulators/

The one major downside to the way that language about abuse and boundaries has become mainstream is that people who actually really suck and objectively did things wrong will try to co-opt that language. Sometimes the absolute worst person you know accuses everyone of being an abuser when they get pushed away for what they've done, or misuse the term 'gaslighting' so dramatically that it beats meaning right out of the word. You aren't boldly standing up against manipulators when your friend picks a fight, has to start the fight himself anyway, and then you dive in with a chair to back him up. Ace Steel is like when someone randomly becomes a celebrity for something dumb and they float around for like three months longer than their fifteen minutes of fame just saying shit until people finally stop giving them attention.

Reading this gave me flashbacks to Mike Quackenbush, that cringe video he made when he got outed, and the dude who defended him and later got outed himself for much the same behavior.

[Final Countdown Jones]

Oct 31, 2022 16:26:53 GMT -5 Rave said:

Oct 31, 2022 15:08:42 GMT -5 Final Countdown Jones said:

The one major downside to the way that language about abuse and boundaries has become mainstream is that people who actually really suck and objectively did things wrong will try to co-opt that language. Sometimes the absolute worst person you know accuses everyone of being an abuser when they get pushed away for what they've done, or misuse the term 'gaslighting' so dramatically that it beats meaning right out of the word. You aren't boldly standing up against manipulators when your friend picks a fight, has to start the fight himself anyway, and then you dive in with a chair to back him up. Ace Steel is like when someone randomly becomes a celebrity for something dumb and they float around for like three months longer than their fifteen minutes of fame just saying shit until people finally stop giving them attention.

Reading this gave me flashbacks to Mike Quackenbush, that cringe video he made when he got outed, and the dude who defended him and later got outed himself for much the same behavior.

Yeah no this behavior extends all the way to the most dangerous core of it, which is when real abusers learn this language has power and use those words to further abuse and manipulate people. It's ugly.

[chrom]

Oct 31, 2022 15:48:52 GMT -5 Dub H said:

Okay the people arguing that Hangman shoot was out of line is ridiculous, first:

CM PUNK always advocated for unscripted promos and MADE HIS WHOLE CAREER OUT OF UNSCRIPTED SHOOT COMMENTS.


and second HANGMAN SAID NO DIFFERENT OR WORSE THAN EVERY SINGLE OTHER PERSON PUNK FEUDED

Punk should know that if you live in a house of glass, it's a bad idea to be throwing rocks.

[The Captain]

Oct 31, 2022 16:00:09 GMT -5 DichEvans said:

There is a lot of bashing of Punk's in ring work on Twitter, which i find weird. Way too fans confuse not liking someone, with them being "bad".

Although already forgotten, his match against Mox was one of the best storytelling matches wrestling has had in ages. It's a shame his mouth had to ruin that moment.

From a technical standpoint, he wasn't at his best. Though you can blame that on working off 7 years' worth of ring rust on top of the wear and tear on his body. Pulling out the Pepsi Plunge was an insane moment, but there's a reason he stopped doing the move (absolute murder on the knees).

But yeah, from an in-ring storytelling standpoint, he was as good as he's ever been. His match at Revolution vs MJF was a master class and should still be in consideration for MOTY. Just... he's also a miserable prick.

[Lizuka #BLM]

I didn't see the Revolution and All Out matches, but for the rest of Punk's AEW ring work I generally found it to be pretty good but there really wasn't a match of his that I'd go, "Yes, I'm so glad that happened, that was amazing!" I guess a lot of people would point to the first MJF match but it really didn't do anything for me.

[Deleted]

I’m sure punk had a lot of good work in his time in aew but all I’ll ever remember is the fire promos with mjf & him eating shit on multiple buckshot lariats

[Fade]

Oct 31, 2022 15:58:30 GMT -5 Allie Kitsune said:

Oct 31, 2022 15:10:15 GMT -5 chazraps said:

See, this is why Ace and Punk and the like co-opting actual mental health terminology and using them are f***ing awful. Like, f***ing, you bit a guy - how is THAT not overstepping a big boundary? It was in the aftermath of someone else inviting anyone to come talk to him - which is in the most literal way setting a boundary that others then abided by.

If Punk's relationship with a mental health advocate has given him anything, it's passing on terms normally used to help to instead further manipulate and abuse others.

Also, Hangman Page's "workers rights" comment wasn't wrong at all. If Punk took personal issue with it, then maybe it's his fault for being a massive hypocrite about workers rights to begin with.

Also, if Ace hates manipulators, why is his nose surgically attached to the ass of one of the biggest manipulators the business has seen outside of the Kliq?

Maybe, kind of, answered your own question there.

Oct 31, 2022 16:00:09 GMT -5 DichEvans said:

There is a lot of bashing of Punk's in ring work on Twitter, which i find weird. Way too fans confuse not liking someone, with them being "bad".

Although already forgotten, his match against Mox was one of the best storytelling matches wrestling has had in ages. It's a shame his mouth had to ruin that moment.

I’ve disliked Phil for a minute but the MJF matches, the Kingston match and the Mox matches were glorious. As pointed out, when it came to storytelling, the sunuva bitch was glorious.

[bob]

Oct 31, 2022 17:09:16 GMT -5 chrom said:

Oct 31, 2022 15:48:52 GMT -5 Dub H said:

Okay the people arguing that Hangman shoot was out of line is ridiculous, first:

CM PUNK always advocated for unscripted promos and MADE HIS WHOLE CAREER OUT OF UNSCRIPTED SHOOT COMMENTS.


and second HANGMAN SAID NO DIFFERENT OR WORSE THAN EVERY SINGLE OTHER PERSON PUNK FEUDED

Punk should know that if you live in a house of glass, it's a bad idea to be throwing rocks.

there's no way he could throw The Rock one time, let alone multiple times

[Ronny Rayguns Is All Elite]

Oct 31, 2022 14:12:56 GMT -5 Lizuka #BLM said:

Even if you were to agree Hangman was in the wrong - I really don't think he was - it's still nowhere remotely as bad as what Punk did just between the calling him out unprompted months after the fact and the press conference. Hangman was throwing out a no-details mention of a real life situation in a way where no one really picked up on it (besides thinking it felt kind of weird and out of place) while Punk made a giant spectacle of it both times.

Muffin-gate was so crazy I forgot about that business with Punk calling Page out

[Final Countdown Jones]

Oct 31, 2022 18:20:01 GMT -5 UN PLOMBIER NIGHTMARE #blm said:

I’m sure punk had a lot of good work in his time in aew but all I’ll ever remember is the fire promos with mjf & him eating shit on multiple buckshot lariats

I know I keep going back to the f***ing "oh yeah it owuld have been great if Punk was actually turning heel" thing but seriously imagine if those were intentional botches and not just really sad.

[FinalGwen]

I don't think any of Punk's matches were necessarily bad, outside those awful buckshot attempts, but none lit the world on fire outside maybe the Dog Collar match. The story-based ones were generally better than the Dynamite exhibition fare (which I wouldn't even say is his fault, many men have tried to make Bobby Fish interesting and failed), but I'd honestly say Jericho had better matches with most of the big opponents than Punk did.

[Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]]

Oct 31, 2022 22:21:39 GMT -5 FinalGwen said:

I don't think any of Punk's matches were necessarily bad, outside those awful buckshot attempts, but none lit the world on fire outside maybe the Dog Collar match. The story-based ones were generally better than the Dynamite exhibition fare (which I wouldn't even say is his fault, many men have tried to make Bobby Fish interesting and failed), but I'd honestly say Jericho had better matches with most of the big opponents than Punk did.

Might just be me but I thought his match vs Dustin Rhodes was outstanding, as was his match with Dax

Outside of the top rope spot as well I thought his match with Hobbs made Hobbs look incredible

The match with Eddie was also great to me, short but absolutely to the point

[Kalmia]

The Eddie Kingston match was fantastic. You won't see many 10-minute matches as great as that one was.