Punk's media scrum, Page 54, Muffins, Biting People Bad™

[Chiral]

My hope was that Punk really did do self reflection and grew from it (he at least indicated as much at the start of his AEW run) then I just was in that mindset until the Hangman feud and that's where it seemed less like they were doing a "hero steadily turns into a villain" angle that I fell into thinking was happening for a second time and it just felt like he was a dick. The Dynamite after Double or Nothing when Punk and FTR came out together celebrating like they vanquished a big heel made me just like "what am I supposed to feel here Hangman's one of my favorites." Then when he came back from being hurt and had that weird as f*** Hangman off script line I was starting to get suspicious something was really going on with the dude, then the scrum came and it really just obliterated my interest in him. Like he can go to WWE whatever, I hope the dude finds some peace and self growth someday because it's sad to live your life as angry as he apparently does.

[mattyy]

The entire scrum killed off my entire interest in Punk. Like I bought his merch(still have a jersey I ordered right before All Out still in the PWT bag), but him shitting on retail workers by alluding to it being an easy job killed off any Fandom. Not only that but Hangman and The Bucks who literally built the company he is main eventing for haven't done anything in the business? His comments made AEW look second rate and he's a little insecure bitch.

[Mozenrath]

Nov 20, 2022 22:51:59 GMT -5 mattyy said:

The entire scrum killed off my entire interest in Punk. Like I bought his merch(still have a jersey I ordered right before All Out still in the PWT bag), but him shitting on retail workers by alluding to it being an easy job killed off any Fandom. Not only that but Hangman and The Bucks who literally built the company he is main eventing for haven't done anything in the business? His comments made AEW look second rate and he's a little insecure bitch.

That's honestly part of it. For a guy who I am sure has passion for wrestling, and is obviously very conscious of the place he wants to have in it, he revealed himself to be grossly ignorant of things outside of his own sphere, both between things that went on when he was gone and things that went on in Japan and elsewhere. For all of his disdain for "part-timers", he showed less interest than many of them do in figuring out who all everyone is and why he should care.

[Chiral]

I do definitely get the sense that Punk was like a lot of fans that came to AEW just for him when he debuted and are mad/confused at the prospect of it without him. That mindset of wanting wrestling to have CM Punk as its core without much interest or even outright disdain in anything outside of that orbit and little care for the history that went into AEW, not just in the years since its inception but everything building to it beforehand.

[ASYLUMHAUSEN]

I just wanted to make THIS specific post because THIS specific post is my 454th post in the thread.

HAIL!



EDIT;

Yup...

[Final Countdown Jones]

Nov 20, 2022 22:30:59 GMT -5 Chiral said:

My hope was that Punk really did do self reflection and grew from it (he at least indicated as much at the start of his AEW run) then I just was in that mindset until the Hangman feud and that's where it seemed less like they were doing a "hero steadily turns into a villain" angle that I fell into thinking was happening for a second time and it just felt like he was a dick. The Dynamite after Double or Nothing when Punk and FTR came out together celebrating like they vanquished a big heel made me just like "what am I supposed to feel here Hangman's one of my favorites." Then when he came back from being hurt and had that weird as f*** Hangman off script line I was starting to get suspicious something was really going on with the dude, then the scrum came and it really just obliterated my interest in him. Like he can go to WWE whatever, I hope the dude finds some peace and self growth someday because it's sad to live your life as angry as he apparently does.

The scrum obviously did the number on Punk the man, but I think this run did a lot of damage to Punk the talent too that's just real hard to reconcile. "Happy Punk" was exceptionally bad. The kind of bad where it was like obviously the long game and he was going to start pivoting into some kind of better material. Super face Punk just isn't good; it's a misuse of his talent and a giant waste of potential. So surely he was going to turn heel, right? That the reason he mostly fought faces and kept having uncomfortable "these dudes seem like there's some deeper issues going on here" promo battles was because it was the signal of his character's direction and dropping hints at what was to come. He didn't really have an "Eddie Kingston is a f***-up who still doesn't deserve respect and I was right to say everything I've ever said about him" feud to shit on Eddie and actually be right, right? Him trying and failing to do the Buckshot twice in the match wasn't an embarrassing botch and meant to be a big face 'holy shit' moment, could it? Every face keeps openly running him down for being a duplicitous narcissist in it for only himself underneath all his talk about the people because that's what his character surely is. Calling out faces on random off-plan comments just to make them look bad is constructive for something other than petty attempts at making dudes look bad for real.

MJF feud aside, Punk really had no earthly clue what he was doing and it seemed like he'd forgotten what actually made him good. Take aside all the conflicts behind these actions and what you still have is a guy who thought the best plan for All Out was for him to be the ultimate never-give-up babyface man of the people. It felt tonedeaf. It felt baffling. I was hooked the whole time in to the idea that he had to be taking this somewhere because the nostalgia tour stuff had worn out its welcome and he surely knew was too good a talent to think he could just coast like that. But no he really did just wanna coast. The parts that would have been good foreshadowing of heel traits and a killer character arc in a sensible wrestler were instead one guy's insecurities and petty gripes rearing their ugly heads over and over. If Punk doesn't self-destruct and hell even stayed healthy, I think he'd be wearing down his overness anyway. I'd been saying that before the meltdown even happened; he was slowly losing people with the stagnation and Happy Punk. It wasn't right.

[Gawk Rivers]

Nov 21, 2022 11:42:40 GMT -5 ASYLUMHAUSEN said:

I just wanted to make THIS specific post because THIS specific post is my 454th post in the thread.

HAIL!



EDIT;

Yup...

I can't ever change this profile pic it looks perfect in everything

[lucas_lee]

Nov 21, 2022 12:05:11 GMT -5 Final Countdown Jones said:

Nov 20, 2022 22:30:59 GMT -5 Chiral said:

My hope was that Punk really did do self reflection and grew from it (he at least indicated as much at the start of his AEW run) then I just was in that mindset until the Hangman feud and that's where it seemed less like they were doing a "hero steadily turns into a villain" angle that I fell into thinking was happening for a second time and it just felt like he was a dick. The Dynamite after Double or Nothing when Punk and FTR came out together celebrating like they vanquished a big heel made me just like "what am I supposed to feel here Hangman's one of my favorites." Then when he came back from being hurt and had that weird as f*** Hangman off script line I was starting to get suspicious something was really going on with the dude, then the scrum came and it really just obliterated my interest in him. Like he can go to WWE whatever, I hope the dude finds some peace and self growth someday because it's sad to live your life as angry as he apparently does.

The scrum obviously did the number on Punk the man, but I think this run did a lot of damage to Punk the talent too that's just real hard to reconcile. "Happy Punk" was exceptionally bad. The kind of bad where it was like obviously the long game and he was going to start pivoting into some kind of better material. Super face Punk just isn't good; it's a misuse of his talent and a giant waste of potential. So surely he was going to turn heel, right? That the reason he mostly fought faces and kept having uncomfortable "these dudes seem like there's some deeper issues going on here" promo battles was because it was the signal of his character's direction and dropping hints at what was to come. He didn't really have an "Eddie Kingston is a f***-up who still doesn't deserve respect and I was right to say everything I've ever said about him" feud to shit on Eddie and actually be right, right? Him trying and failing to do the Buckshot twice in the match wasn't an embarrassing botch and meant to be a big face 'holy shit' moment, could it? Every face keeps openly running him down for being a duplicitous narcissist in it for only himself underneath all his talk about the people because that's what his character surely is. Calling out faces on random off-plan comments just to make them look bad is constructive for something other than petty attempts at making dudes look bad for real.

MJF feud aside, Punk really had no earthly clue what he was doing and it seemed like he'd forgotten what actually made him good. Take aside all the conflicts behind these actions and what you still have is a guy who thought the best plan for All Out was for him to be the ultimate never-give-up babyface man of the people. It felt tonedeaf. It felt baffling. I was hooked the whole time in to the idea that he had to be taking this somewhere because the nostalgia tour stuff had worn out its welcome and he surely knew was too good a talent to think he could just coast like that. But no he really did just wanna coast. The parts that would have been good foreshadowing of heel traits and a killer character arc in a sensible wrestler were instead one guy's insecurities and petty gripes rearing their ugly heads over and over. If Punk doesn't self-destruct and hell even stayed healthy, I think he'd be wearing down his overness anyway. I'd been saying that before the meltdown even happened; he was slowly losing people with the stagnation and Happy Punk. It wasn't right.

I agree with you. They've been signaling that Punk is was gonna turn and he was showing his true colors with some of the sarcastic comments and putting them down. But the Buckshot lariat I feel was hubris on Punks part trying to keep up with the younger guys. He wasn't the most athletic in his prime and he probably got hurt doing that too. I think the scrum commens was all from a bruised ego that he got hurt again and will be out again, and all of the ugliness that was simmering finally boiled over in that moment.

[SneakMan]

A lot of us thought that the flaws in Punk's run - the diminishing returns on his "happy to be here" promos, lashing out at fan-favorites, his botches and sloppiness - were all building to something bigger. All of it was subtly planting the seeds for a glorious heel turn, one which would end up being seen as a subversive work of genius. Instead it turned out that no, Punk really was just happy to be there, he was genuinely lashing out at coworkers due to a fragile ego, and he'd lost a step or two in-ring. We mistook myopia for genius. 

Basically, Punk went full Cody.

[The Captain]

Nov 21, 2022 13:36:53 GMT -5 SneakMan said:

A lot of us thought that the flaws in Punk's run - the diminishing returns on his "happy to be here" promos, lashing out at fan-favorites, his botches and sloppiness - were all building to something bigger. All of it was subtly planting the seeds for a glorious heel turn, one which would end up being seen as a subversive work of genius. Instead it turned out that no, Punk really was just happy to be there, he was genuinely lashing out at coworkers due to a fragile ego, and he'd lost a step or two in-ring. We mistook myopia for genius. 

Basically, Punk went full Cody.

Cody never openly buried his coworkers at least.

[SneakMan]

Nov 21, 2022 13:39:39 GMT -5 The Captain said:

Cody never openly buried his coworkers at least.

Oh of course, I don't mean to compare what they actually did or their personalities. More just that in both cases, a lot of us (myself included) thought there was a bigger picture, an underlying method to their madness. When in reality it was just "lol nope, what you see is what you get."

[Final Countdown Jones]

Nov 21, 2022 13:36:53 GMT -5 SneakMan said:

A lot of us thought that the flaws in Punk's run - the diminishing returns on his "happy to be here" promos, lashing out at fan-favorites, his botches and sloppiness - were all building to something bigger. All of it was subtly planting the seeds for a glorious heel turn, one which would end up being seen as a subversive work of genius. Instead it turned out that no, Punk really was just happy to be there, he was genuinely lashing out at coworkers due to a fragile ego, and he'd lost a step or two in-ring. We mistook myopia for genius. 

Basically, Punk went full Cody.

This is a great era in wrestling for people with good character work and amazing heel presentations to go "nuh-uh I'm a face, it's important that I'm a face, this is a symbol" and just tank their esteem. Like, yeah, Cody got cheered going to WWE, I'm not going to minimize that, but his AEW run definitely hurt the legend he'd built up as this great character worker. And if Cody had turned heel late last year? Dude would have been a top guy. 2022 AEW would have been so much better. But he couldn't. That's going to always hang over him now. He definitely left on better terms and in better spirits--regardless of how he actually left, just because he didn't do assault--but that same central nugget of ego over art is tragic. Both of them should have known better.

[BayleyTiffyCodyCenaJudyHopps]

Punk’s actions were a full blown coup attempt that slapped AEW in the face after they rolled out the red white and blue Pepsi carpet for him. Cody just exited a fan and creative environment he wasn’t satisfied with. To me that’s way more innocuous. Plus I’m convinced it was that very reception he got in WWE that stoked his performance fire earlier this year.

[ChitownKnight]

officialfan.proboards.com/thread/622244/purpose-dynamite-weirdness-thread-update?page=1

Just a reminder the thread I linked exists as well and that is the buildup to the infamous scrum which is about 50 or so pages. Weird to look at now with everyone debating on if it was a shoot or a work.

[A Platypus Rave is Correct]

Nov 21, 2022 14:55:23 GMT -5 BayleyTiffyCodyCenaJudyHopps said:

Punk’s actions were a full blown coup attempt that slapped AEW in the face after they rolled out the red white and blue Pepsi carpet for him. Cody just exited a fan and creative environment he wasn’t satisfied with. To me that’s way more innocuous. Plus I’m convinced it was that very reception he got in WWE that stoked his performance fire earlier this year.

They explained they meant the on screen presentation.

Cody doing all this stuff that looked like he was teasing a heel turn for like a year, is very similar to how Punk's actions on the screen looked like the facade was dropping and he was going to go back to being the shitbag heel which he excels at.

when no... there wasn't any underlying heel turn coming..

[Deleted]

twitter.com/WrestleOps/status/1594750555724709888?s=20&t=wYDbHqY6Y6r0H7GPiDFXhQ

I would say this was to be expected

[Mid-Carder]

Nov 21, 2022 16:59:24 GMT -5 slickrickstyles said:

twitter.com/WrestleOps/status/1594750555724709888?s=20&t=wYDbHqY6Y6r0H7GPiDFXhQ

I would say this was to be expected

Good. I'm glad they know how many people are on their side.

[Final Countdown Jones]

Hopefully that's the worst it gets because that's pretty tame.

[Fade]

Nov 21, 2022 16:59:24 GMT -5 slickrickstyles said:

twitter.com/WrestleOps/status/1594750555724709888?s=20&t=wYDbHqY6Y6r0H7GPiDFXhQ

I would say this was to be expected

That spoke volumes. No little side digs or winky puns, just putting the attention on the “f*** C.M Punk” chants. Clearly a giant, solemn, defiant “f*** You” from dudes who legally probably can’t say much, if anything, at all.

[Deleted]

Nov 21, 2022 17:08:42 GMT -5 Fade said:

Nov 21, 2022 16:59:24 GMT -5 slickrickstyles said:

twitter.com/WrestleOps/status/1594750555724709888?s=20&t=wYDbHqY6Y6r0H7GPiDFXhQ

I would say this was to be expected

That spoke volumes. No little side digs or winky puns, just putting the attention on the “f*** C.M Punk” chants. Clearly a giant, solemn, defiant “f*** You” from dudes who legally probably can’t say much, if anything, at all.

Yep this was much better than I expected. Kudos to that insane crowd for taking matters into their own hands.