asuka007
Fry's dog Seymour
Posts: 23,587
|
Post by asuka007 on Oct 9, 2022 12:41:33 GMT -5
I mean for as much interest as there was at first about how Triple H would book the tag belts.
Frankly they still feel about as worthless as when Vince was there.
|
|
mistery
Grimlock
Posts: 12,778
Member is Online
|
Post by mistery on Oct 9, 2022 12:44:02 GMT -5
Yeah I just saw a quote saying that Bianca wasn't done and was going after the tag titles. Like...okay. Cool they don't seem to be done burying Damage CTRL yet, because I have a feeling Bianca is going to help Alexa/Asuka or Raquel/Shotzi win the tag titles to further bury the group. That would be such a stupid decision because they don't even have any built up Heel teams. All of those teams have basically been broken up(Nikki breaking off from Doudrop; Shotzi turning Face and splitting from Xia Li) It's just a random mishmash of people. I mean would it really shock you at this point? And be honest here. WWE has taken every big moment Damage CTRL could have had and completely destroyed it all in the service of making the group look bad right afterwards. I fully expect them to continue to get chumped on Monday. And then again on Friday, and then again the following Monday. Damage CTRL had very few moments where they actually looked like a threat.
|
|
|
Post by Cvslfc123 on Oct 9, 2022 12:57:25 GMT -5
I was reminded of when John Cena took out The Miz and R-Truth by himself before Survivor Series 2011
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 9, 2022 13:05:22 GMT -5
The timing on this could not have been more coincidental because while WWE is pretty much killing this trio and subsequently IYO's potential.
We just got done with the Black Lotus Triad in the Gecko rewatch and the difference in how LU treated that trio in one single episode compared to the weeks of disaster that is Dmg Cntrl is quite the stark contrast more so when you look at that version of IYO compared to where she is creatively right now.
Even years removed LU's timing is almost supernatural.
|
|
mistery
Grimlock
Posts: 12,778
Member is Online
|
Post by mistery on Oct 9, 2022 13:41:22 GMT -5
Asked a friend about his thoughts on last night, and his thoughts:
He did add in a caveat if their booking doesn't improve though:
|
|
|
Post by Jindrak Mark on Oct 9, 2022 14:27:54 GMT -5
Asked a friend about his thoughts on last night, and his thoughts: He did add in a caveat if their booking doesn't improve though: Wow, your friend sounds a lot like you, right down to taking random shots at Raquel who has nothing to do with anything right now. I don't even like Raquel but I don't get the hatred or this sense that she's getting some kind of superpush. I'd much rather be Iyo right now. Big return in front of 50,000 people at Summerslam. Win at CATC in front of 70,000 people. Title holder. Main events Raw every other week. Likely to be in a big war games match. Raquel doesn't even get onto PPVs or get any real feuds. She just wrestles nothing matches on Smackdown. I find it hard to believe many would choose to be in Raquel's position right now over Iyo. It's like comparing Seth Rollins to Omos. Omos might have a higher win percentage but those wins mean nothing and he's not a heavily featured act. Rollins wins some and loses some but he's always getting a bunch of screen time and is way more of a focus in the company and trusted by management.
|
|
mistery
Grimlock
Posts: 12,778
Member is Online
|
Post by mistery on Oct 9, 2022 14:52:28 GMT -5
Asked a friend about his thoughts on last night, and his thoughts: He did add in a caveat if their booking doesn't improve though: Wow, your friend sounds a lot like you, right down to taking random shots at Raquel who has nothing to do with anything right now. I don't even like Raquel but I don't get the hatred or this sense that she's getting some kind of superpush. I'd much rather be Iyo right now. Big return in front of 50,000 people at Summerslam. Win at CATC in front of 70,000 people. Title holder. Main events Raw every other week. Likely to be in a big war games match. Raquel doesn't even get onto PPVs or get any real feuds. She just wrestles nothing matches on Smackdown. I find it hard to believe many would choose to be in Raquel's position right now over Iyo. It's like comparing Seth Rollins to Omos. Omos might have a higher win percentage but those wins mean nothing and he's not a heavily featured act. Rollins wins some and loses some but he's always getting a bunch of screen time and is way more of a focus in the company and trusted by management. I mean his shot at Raquel is basically talking about the reports that WWE is incredibly high on her. You could see it in how they presented her the week after she won the NXT Women's Championship, and heavily downplayed Iyo's reign. WWE also completely misread the room with her title run in general, because when Dakota Kai turned on her, the audience was 100% on Kai's side, but continued to try and push Raquel as this big valiant babyface. And Raquel is arguably one of the most protected women on the roster right now (not counting Bianca or Rhea), only having been pinned twice this year (by Ronda and Bayley), but otherwise winning all of her singles matches. Her only other non-tag loss this year was to Shayna in the gauntlet match. It's pretty obvious they see big things in Raquel, or at least Triple H does. Especially compared to how Iyo has been portrayed since her callup. Where Iyo has constantly been chumped on and ran off constantly, and isn't even allowed to look good against Bianca. Also Iyo has had ONE PPV match since being called up, and she spent a lot of it getting her ass kicked. She's also only won one singles match since being called up compared to Bayley and Dakota who have more singles wins under their belts.
|
|
chazraps
Wade Wilson
Better have my money when I come-a collect!
Posts: 28,272
|
Post by chazraps on Oct 9, 2022 15:09:21 GMT -5
I love their new shirt and I'm bummed the Large size sold out instantly.
|
|
|
Post by Jindrak Mark on Oct 9, 2022 15:17:57 GMT -5
Wow, your friend sounds a lot like you, right down to taking random shots at Raquel who has nothing to do with anything right now. I don't even like Raquel but I don't get the hatred or this sense that she's getting some kind of superpush. I'd much rather be Iyo right now. Big return in front of 50,000 people at Summerslam. Win at CATC in front of 70,000 people. Title holder. Main events Raw every other week. Likely to be in a big war games match. Raquel doesn't even get onto PPVs or get any real feuds. She just wrestles nothing matches on Smackdown. I find it hard to believe many would choose to be in Raquel's position right now over Iyo. It's like comparing Seth Rollins to Omos. Omos might have a higher win percentage but those wins mean nothing and he's not a heavily featured act. Rollins wins some and loses some but he's always getting a bunch of screen time and is way more of a focus in the company and trusted by management. I mean his shot at Raquel is basically talking about the reports that WWE is incredibly high on her. You could see it in how they presented her the week after she won the NXT Women's Championship, and heavily downplayed Iyo's reign. WWE also completely misread the room with her title run in general, because when Dakota Kai turned on her, the audience was 100% on Kai's side, but continued to try and push Raquel as this big valiant babyface. And Raquel is arguably one of the most protected women on the roster right now (not counting Bianca or Rhea), only having been pinned twice this year (by Ronda and Bayley), but otherwise winning all of her singles matches. Her only other non-tag loss this year was to Shayna in the gauntlet match. It's pretty obvious they see big things in Raquel, or at least Triple H does. Especially compared to how Iyo has been portrayed since her callup. Where Iyo has constantly been chumped on and ran off constantly, and isn't even allowed to look good against Bianca. Also Iyo has had ONE PPV match since being called up, and she spent a lot of it getting her ass kicked. She's also only won one singles match since being called up compared to Bayley and Dakota who have more singles wins under their belts. The NXT title win was a year and a half ago though. I just don't see her current booking as "chosen one" or anything. Why didn't she win MITB? Why did she immediately lose the tag titles? Why has she only appeared on 1 PPV in 6 months on the main roster (and that was a huge multi-person match)? Only being pinned twice this year might sound pretty impressive but again, Omos has probably hardly lost any matches this year too. It doesn't mean he's getting a huge push. People who are chosen ones appear on PPVs, get a lot of TV time, main event shows and interact with top tier names. Raquel isn't doing any of that. Maybe it will change and she'll suddenly win the title and hold it for a year but as of today Raquel isn't getting any kind of great push. She beats low-carders on Smackdown in short matches. If that's considered top star material then Veer Mahaan was massive earlier this year. Iyo main events Raws in long matches, is paired with a legend/top star and actually appears in front of massive crowds at the PPVs. As an Iyo fan I'm far happier she's doing all that rather than the big ball of nothing Raquel is doing.
|
|
Sparkybob
King Koopa
I have a status?
Posts: 11,003
|
Post by Sparkybob on Oct 9, 2022 15:37:22 GMT -5
If you ask the majority of women in WWE (including NXT) I am sure over 80% of them will happily swap with Iyo right now. This woe is me is weird because it feels like it's been set up that Iyo is a hall of fame talent in a division of developmental talent which is unfair to both Iyo and the other women's talent.
|
|
mistery
Grimlock
Posts: 12,778
Member is Online
|
Post by mistery on Oct 9, 2022 15:47:00 GMT -5
If you ask the majority of women in WWE (including NXT) I am sure over 80% of them will happily swap with Iyo right now. This woe is me is weird because it feels like it's been set up that Iyo is a hall of fame talent in a division of developmental talent which is unfair to both Iyo and the other women's talent. I mean Iyo is definitely a hall of fame level talent, but like...she isn't treated like a top star either. That's pretty much hard to argue against. And considering how loaded the top of the card is, it's pretty unrealistic to expect her to ever get a top title run either, because her booking over the past several months have told casual fans that she isn't worth getting invested in as a talent. Especially when her best match on the main roster so far is against Alexa, and that was mainly because she got to dictate the pace of the match. Where in her other singles matches against Bianca, she got like very little to no offense, and Bianca pretty much shrugged off whatever she did get in. People talk about "oh she's had long matches with the champion so she is obviously in a good spot" not realizing that 95% of both of those matches with Bianca was her (Bianca) shrugging off the vast majority of Iyo's offense or in control, not letting Iyo get in any sort of sustained offense. Someone did the math in the last match Iyo had with Bianca, and it went around 18 minutes. Iyo got in 3 minutes of actual sustained offense. Bianca had the other 15 or was constantly countering everything Iyo did. That's the problem with Damage CTRL right now. It's obvious its meant to boost Dakota and Iyo's profiles but it very clearly isn't working. If anything, casual fans are cold on the duo, because of terrible booking.
|
|
asuka007
Fry's dog Seymour
Posts: 23,587
|
Post by asuka007 on Oct 9, 2022 15:56:04 GMT -5
In regards to Raquel, it depends on how you look at things.
In terms of TV time, it is undeniable Iyo and Dakota are featured far more.
But in terms of being portrayed as strong, Raquel is given more there and it is not even close.
Honestly Raquel and Kross feel similar in this regard.
|
|
mistery
Grimlock
Posts: 12,778
Member is Online
|
Post by mistery on Oct 9, 2022 16:01:05 GMT -5
In regards to Raquel, it depends on how you look at things. In terms of TV time, it is undeniable Iyo and Dakota are featured far more. But in terms of being portrayed as strong, Raquel is given more there and it is not even close. Honestly Raquel and Kross feel similar in this regard. Yup. People are forgetting Raquel's losses on the main roster were heavily protected losses at that. 1) Against Ronda: It was a fluke pin 2) Against Shayna: Raquel had beaten pretty much every other woman in the gauntlet match 3) Against Bayley: It took an utterly insane amount of cheating on the part of Damage CTRL for Bayley to beat her. Meanwhile Iyo just...gets pinned completely clean after getting her ass handed to her for 95% of the match.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 9, 2022 16:31:06 GMT -5
There is only one proper solution to fixing this entire thing and it simply relies in the booking.
They have to not just start but have to sustain being a threat to the whole division meaning when they do things it has to matter and it has to matter long term because there is no other way to salvage this and if HHH and and I signal him out because all of it runs through him , if he is unwilling to undo the dmg then they have to blow this up because it will continue to just irreprebly damage both IYO and Dakota...Bayley will be just fine aint a soul worried about her both those two will forever struggle and considering their level of talent ESPECIALLY IYO should not be f***ing happening one single bit.
|
|
|
Post by Jindrak Mark on Oct 9, 2022 16:32:39 GMT -5
In regards to Raquel, it depends on how you look at things. In terms of TV time, it is undeniable Iyo and Dakota are featured far more. But in terms of being portrayed as strong, Raquel is given more there and it is not even close. Honestly Raquel and Kross feel similar in this regard. Yup. People are forgetting Raquel's losses on the main roster were heavily protected losses at that. 1) Against Ronda: It was a fluke pin 2) Against Shayna: Raquel had beaten pretty much every other woman in the gauntlet match 3) Against Bayley: It took an utterly insane amount of cheating on the part of Damage CTRL for Bayley to beat her. Meanwhile Iyo just...gets pinned completely clean after getting her ass handed to her for 95% of the match. As a fan of Iyo would you honestly rather she got Raquel's 2022 booking? So no massive return at Summerslam in front of 50k fans. Just debut cold on a random Smackdown. No marquee match/win at another historic PPV. She just beats the likes of Sonya in random TV matches. No taking out Becky. Instead of teaming with Bayley and Dakota she teams with Aliyah. She wins the tag titles then immediately drops them. Instead of main eventing Raw she's a Smackdown midcarder.
|
|
|
Post by ThankGodForSidJustice on Oct 9, 2022 16:37:00 GMT -5
In regards to Raquel, it depends on how you look at things. In terms of TV time, it is undeniable Iyo and Dakota are featured far more. But in terms of being portrayed as strong, Raquel is given more there and it is not even close. Honestly Raquel and Kross feel similar in this regard. Yup. People are forgetting Raquel's losses on the main roster were heavily protected losses at that. 1) Against Ronda: It was a fluke pin 2) Against Shayna: Raquel had beaten pretty much every other woman in the gauntlet match 3) Against Bayley: It took an utterly insane amount of cheating on the part of Damage CTRL for Bayley to beat her. Meanwhile Iyo just...gets pinned completely clean after getting her ass handed to her for 95% of the match. I think the only way you would be happy with Iyo's booking if she was always champion and never lost a match like ever. I get it she's your favorite. We all have our favorites and want them to do well and get upset when they lose. However with most of us we get upset if they are losing a lot, aren't in a good spot on the card, and are treated as not that really important. None of those are the case with Iyo. She's main evented several Raws, is a tag champion, is in a stable that's getting a lot of focus, and has been pinned like three times in the last two years. However I guess the company hates her because she lost one match against super woman #1 babyface Bianca Belair that went 15 minutes where she got a lesser percentage of the offense. That still puts her in a better position then like 90% of the women's roster. As far as kayfabe powers goes probably only the big four (Ronda, Bianca, Becky, Charlotte) are presented as being stronger then her. I guess you could argue Raquel and Rhea but that's debatable.
|
|
|
Post by Jindrak Mark on Oct 9, 2022 16:58:20 GMT -5
Yup. People are forgetting Raquel's losses on the main roster were heavily protected losses at that. 1) Against Ronda: It was a fluke pin 2) Against Shayna: Raquel had beaten pretty much every other woman in the gauntlet match 3) Against Bayley: It took an utterly insane amount of cheating on the part of Damage CTRL for Bayley to beat her. Meanwhile Iyo just...gets pinned completely clean after getting her ass handed to her for 95% of the match. I think the only way you would be happy with Iyo's booking if she was always champion and never lost a match like ever. I get it she's your favorite. We all have our favorites and want them to do well and get upset when they lose. However with most of us we get upset if they are losing a lot, aren't in a good spot on the card, and are treated as not that really important. None of those are the case with Iyo. She's main evented several Raws, is a tag champion, is in a stable that's getting a lot of focus, and has been pinned like three times in the last two years. However I guess the company hates her because she lost one match against super woman #1 babyface Bianca Belair that went 15 minutes where she got a lesser percentage of the offense. That still puts her in a better position then like 90% of the women's roster. As far as kayfabe powers goes probably only the big four (Ronda, Bianca, Becky, Charlotte) are presented as being stronger then her. I guess you could argue Raquel and Rhea but that's debatable. As a fan of Becky I had to spend much of 2015-18 seeing her lose probably 50% of her matches despite her being frankly way more over than Iyo is now. I once watched Becky lose to Dana Brooke on TV. I watched her get eliminated in the opening minute of a Survivor Series match. I watched her get massive pops on TV then end up in the pre-show battle royal at Wrestlemania. We all have our favorites and want to see them win and do well all the time but sometimes you have to take a step back and realize this is just wrestling and sometimes your favorites will win and sometimes your favorites will lose. I love Iyo and have no doubt that the cream will rise to the top and she'll eventually be champion and have a bunch of great PPV matches against all the biggest stars. Now Dakota I don't think will ever be world champion but I don't necessarily see that as a bad thing. She's good but I don't think she's world champion good. Not everyone can get the top belt and she's in a fine spot right now with a very prominent role and a lot of TV time.
|
|
gl83
Hank Scorpio
Posts: 5,232
Member is Online
|
Post by gl83 on Oct 9, 2022 17:12:13 GMT -5
I think the only way you would be happy with Iyo's booking if she was always champion and never lost a match like ever. I get it she's your favorite. We all have our favorites and want them to do well and get upset when they lose. However with most of us we get upset if they are losing a lot, aren't in a good spot on the card, and are treated as not that really important. None of those are the case with Iyo. She's main evented several Raws, is a tag champion, is in a stable that's getting a lot of focus, and has been pinned like three times in the last two years. However I guess the company hates her because she lost one match against super woman #1 babyface Bianca Belair that went 15 minutes where she got a lesser percentage of the offense. That still puts her in a better position then like 90% of the women's roster. As far as kayfabe powers goes probably only the big four (Ronda, Bianca, Becky, Charlotte) are presented as being stronger then her. I guess you could argue Raquel and Rhea but that's debatable. As a fan of Becky I had to spend much of 2015-18 seeing her lose probably 50% of her matches despite her being frankly way more over than Iyo is now. I once watched Becky lose to Dana Brooke on TV. I watched her get eliminated in the opening minute of a Survivor Series match. I watched her get massive pops on TV then end up in the pre-show battle royal at Wrestlemania. We all have our favorites and want to see them win and do well all the time but sometimes you have to take a step back and realize this is just wrestling and sometimes your favorites will win and sometimes your favorites will lose. I love Iyo and have no doubt that the cream will rise to the top and she'll eventually be champion and have a bunch of great PPV matches against all the biggest stars. Now Dakota I don't think will ever be world champion but I don't necessarily see that as a bad thing. She's good but I don't think she's world champion good. Not everyone can get the top belt and she's in a fine spot right now with a very prominent role and a lot of TV time. I think Dakota is good enough for a test run ala Liv Morgan and Nikki ASH. The thing I'm not sure about is that Becky is due back soon. And obviously it would make sense to have her feud with Damage Ctrl, who took her out. But, right now, feels like it would be the worst time to bring Becky back to feud with Damage Ctrl. Their credibility is shot right now and they desperately need to get some of their heat back. If this was after CATC after their big win, then it might've worked. If you have Damage Ctrl win at War Games and then have Becky return to confront them that would also work. But definitely not now.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 9, 2022 17:16:09 GMT -5
IYO will get her time but it is gonna take some shuffling this is what as a massive fan of Io myself I have all but just accepted.
It will likely take women like Alexa and some others either retiring like alot expect Alexa to do and the likes of Ronda to leave which you would presume shall open up spaces and possibly shuffling her off to SD to give her that oppurtunity at the chance for a singles title.
It is a balancing act that can be achieved (looks at STARDOM who have a f***ing masterclass of women top to bottom on their roster) but Papa H has to get out of the Vince playbook of putting all his eggs into one basket.
|
|
|
Post by EoE: Well There's Your Problem on Oct 9, 2022 17:19:22 GMT -5
It is a balancing act that can be achieved (looks at STARDOM who have a f***ing masterclass of women top to bottom on their roster) but Papa H has to get out of the Vince playbook of putting all his eggs into one basket. Not knowing much about STARDOM, I have to assume their roster is big enough to allow for more conventional booking to happen without treading on too many toes. WWE’s roster of women probably isn’t bigger than that even if you combine RAW and SmackDown, maybe even NXT too.
|
|