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Post by "Evil Brood" Jackson Vanik on Oct 11, 2022 9:02:36 GMT -5
I still don't like the "face gets big win but then is immediately beaten down so the heel is actually the one standing tall and won in the end" trope.
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Post by polarbearpete on Oct 11, 2022 9:37:10 GMT -5
I still don't like the "face gets big win but then is immediately beaten down so the heel is actually the one standing tall and won in the end" trope. That’s wrestling! For weekly TV non-blowoff matches, that’s one of the most logical ways to have a feud/storyline continue without having the heels win the match.
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Post by "Evil Brood" Jackson Vanik on Oct 11, 2022 9:52:44 GMT -5
I still don't like the "face gets big win but then is immediately beaten down so the heel is actually the one standing tall and won in the end" trope. That’s wrestling! For weekly TV non-blowoff matches, that’s one of the most logical ways to have a feud/storyline continue without having the heels win the match. I find it ineffective. I left last night not really thinking Candice was being elevated while not really being that high on Bayley after the loss. It feels like 50/50 booking but in one segment.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 11, 2022 9:59:47 GMT -5
Candice beating Bayley means nothing right now because the woman she beat just got beat 2 nights prior along with 2 cohorts taken out single handedly by super Bianca and effectively have no heat on them and so there is no benefit to beating a heatless trio....she may as well have beaten Dana Brooke or Tamina.
Unless win means is if here real soon Bayley does win the title and Candice got set to be Bayleys first post Bianca title challenger.
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Post by polarbearpete on Oct 11, 2022 10:00:15 GMT -5
That’s wrestling! For weekly TV non-blowoff matches, that’s one of the most logical ways to have a feud/storyline continue without having the heels win the match. I find it ineffective. I left last night not really thinking Candice was being elevated while not really being that high on Bayley after the loss. It feels like 50/50 booking but in one segment. Right it’s not a blowoff match so the feud is continuing. Ultimately you would imagine that “elevation” or strengthening of one side or the other will happen at War Games.
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Post by Friday Night SmackOwn on Oct 11, 2022 10:16:43 GMT -5
I still don't like the "face gets big win but then is immediately beaten down so the heel is actually the one standing tall and won in the end" trope. That’s wrestling! For weekly TV non-blowoff matches, that’s one of the most logical ways to have a feud/storyline continue without having the heels win the match. It’s also kind of the problem in regards to Damage CTRL’s booking. They’ll get the upper hand in beatdowns, but it won’t matter much if they’re not consistently winning in actual matches.
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Post by polarbearpete on Oct 11, 2022 10:29:42 GMT -5
That’s wrestling! For weekly TV non-blowoff matches, that’s one of the most logical ways to have a feud/storyline continue without having the heels win the match. It’s also kind of the problem in regards to Damage CTRL’s booking. They’ll get the upper hand in beatdowns, but it won’t matter much if they’re not consistently winning in actual matches. Yeah they’ll have to get a big win besides the Tag Titles soon if they want to remain a main event type faction for long. That might be War Games, as I imagine Bianca will continue holding the title.
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Post by mistery on Oct 11, 2022 18:51:35 GMT -5
Decided to check Twitter, and saw Damage CTRL trending.
...It's people dumping on the group and how WWE needs to push Dana and Tamina over them because "they both have more upside than Damage CTRL". Triple H really messed up with Damage CTRL. Like really messed up if what people are taking away from this is "we would rather see Dana and Tamina over Iyo, Bayley, and Dakota".
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Post by Jindrak Mark on Oct 11, 2022 19:10:15 GMT -5
Decided to check Twitter, and saw Damage CTRL trending. ...It's people dumping on the group and how WWE needs to push Dana and Tamina over them because "they both have more upside than Damage CTRL". Triple H really messed up with Damage CTRL. Like really messed up if what people are taking away from this is "we would rather see Dana and Tamina over Iyo, Bayley, and Dakota". Do yourself a favor and don't listen to Twitter. Listen to the live crowds, they matter way more. Damage CTRL got great heat for the attack last night. The idea no one would care about them anymore after Extreme Rules was disproven a day later.
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Sparkybob
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Post by Sparkybob on Oct 11, 2022 21:09:33 GMT -5
I think they still have some heat. The booking just makes it seem that Hunter over the last 2-3 weeks had a change of heart on Bayley.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 11, 2022 21:17:57 GMT -5
Between the seeming retooling to make specifically Dakota and Io more in line with their NXT versions and them getting solid heat for the beatdown lastnight.
Perhaps things are finally gonna turn around for this group ...all that has to happen is they be allowed to sustain it and not just get run over by Bianca next week as it has been thus setting them back at square f***ing one.
So lets see how it plays out...just let Molly Holly produce it like she did this and not Petey Williams for f*** sakes.
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Post by mistery on Oct 11, 2022 21:35:51 GMT -5
Between the seeming retooling to make specifically Dakota and Io more in line with their NXT versions and them getting solid heat for the beatdown lastnight. Perhaps things are finally gonna turn around for this group ...all that has to happen is they be allowed to sustain it and not just get run over by Bianca next week as it has been thus setting them back at square f***ing one. So lets see how it plays out. Unfortunately, I fully expect Bianca and Candice to get their heat back next week.
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Post by EoE: Well There's Your Problem on Oct 11, 2022 21:45:01 GMT -5
Between the seeming retooling to make specifically Dakota and Io more in line with their NXT versions and them getting solid heat for the beatdown lastnight. Perhaps things are finally gonna turn around for this group ...all that has to happen is they be allowed to sustain it and not just get run over by Bianca next week as it has been thus setting them back at square f***ing one. So lets see how it plays out. Unfortunately, I fully expect Bianca and Candice to get their heat back next week. Swear to God, we are NOT lumping LeRae into this “overpushed, part of the problem” pile. She only just f***ing came back from having a baby.
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Post by mistery on Oct 11, 2022 21:49:03 GMT -5
Unfortunately, I fully expect Bianca and Candice to get their heat back next week. Swear to God, we are NOT lumping LeRae into this “overpushed, part of the problem” pile. She only just f***ing came back from having a baby. I'm not, I'm saying she's likely getting her heat back because she got jumped this week as well, and will likely get one over on Damage CTRL next week. I doubt she would be getting her heat back if Bianca had nothing to do with this angle.
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gl83
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Post by gl83 on Oct 13, 2022 10:51:50 GMT -5
That’s wrestling! For weekly TV non-blowoff matches, that’s one of the most logical ways to have a feud/storyline continue without having the heels win the match. It’s also kind of the problem in regards to Damage CTRL’s booking. They’ll get the upper hand in beatdowns, but it won’t matter much if they’re not consistently winning in actual matches. Wasn’t that an issue with Judgement Day’s booking as well? Like they would do a ton of beat downs and win a few matches on Raw, but come PPV time they would lose. Extreme Rules was pretty much their first PPV win since dropping Edge.
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gl83
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Post by gl83 on Oct 13, 2022 11:00:44 GMT -5
This is very interesting and while you may get a bit of a sense of what I am gonna say in the video someone posted of them in a bar. It is way more obvious on the RawTalk interview that there is a definite retooling going on with this group now..whethere by creative etc. But Dakota pretty much back to her crazy hearing voices in her head character she was running with at the end of her NXT run. IYO is alot more serious akin to the Joshi Judas and not so much the tweener version of her that we had been seeing. And also something that may or may not be anything but IYO yelling at them to shut up seems to suggest something I myself suggested which was to basically slowly yank leadership away from Bayley (as she is terrible as the leader) and transition to letting IYO be head bitch in charge which I think works way better because she has a commanding presence to her that Bayley just does not have. But also to me atleast they finally felt comfortable and sure of this act which I had not felt since it started.....almost like they are in the roles they needed to be in and can finally steer this preverbial ship the way they need to. All that is left is to not have Bianca f***ing steamrole them next week completely killing what itty bitty ounce of heat they gained back lastnight....I have no hope of this. It’s funny because like you said IYO does have the commanding presence befitting the leader of a faction; Dakota has also been pretty solid on the mic since coming back. It feels like the main thing Bayley’s been contributing to the group is just name value at this point. I wonder if that’s where we’re headed, with Dakota & IYO usurping more control, no pun intended, as opposed to just being Bayley’s lackeys.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2022 11:22:15 GMT -5
This is very interesting and while you may get a bit of a sense of what I am gonna say in the video someone posted of them in a bar. It is way more obvious on the RawTalk interview that there is a definite retooling going on with this group now..whethere by creative etc. But Dakota pretty much back to her crazy hearing voices in her head character she was running with at the end of her NXT run. IYO is alot more serious akin to the Joshi Judas and not so much the tweener version of her that we had been seeing. And also something that may or may not be anything but IYO yelling at them to shut up seems to suggest something I myself suggested which was to basically slowly yank leadership away from Bayley (as she is terrible as the leader) and transition to letting IYO be head bitch in charge which I think works way better because she has a commanding presence to her that Bayley just does not have. But also to me atleast they finally felt comfortable and sure of this act which I had not felt since it started.....almost like they are in the roles they needed to be in and can finally steer this preverbial ship the way they need to. All that is left is to not have Bianca f***ing steamrole them next week completely killing what itty bitty ounce of heat they gained back lastnight....I have no hope of this. It’s funny because like you said IYO does have the commanding presence befitting the leader of a faction; Dakota has also been pretty solid on the mic since coming back. It feels like the main thing Bayley’s been contributing to the group is just name value at this point. I wonder if that’s where we’re headed, with Dakota & IYO usurping more control, no pun intended, as opposed to just being Bayley’s lackeys. I get why Bayley is seen as the leader because this is her pet project and her idea but she has to know her as leader atleast in her current incarnation is just not working. So I am really hoping that IYO being more of a commanding presense here is s sign they may push her into the leade role and just scaling back Bayley...like let the casuals assume Bayley is still the leader but it is IYO taking that role. Maybe largely because STARDOM's entire thing is about factions or Units as they call them that just makes IYO more than a clear fit to take the reigns here as the leader and seeing as STARDOM is basically just giant gangwars then WWE needs to take bits and pieces and impliment here. Oh and give Dmg Cntrl a flag like IYO had for Queens Quest which I always thought was cool and just a powerful way to signify their presence.
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asuka007
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Post by asuka007 on Oct 13, 2022 12:02:52 GMT -5
It’s funny because like you said IYO does have the commanding presence befitting the leader of a faction; Dakota has also been pretty solid on the mic since coming back. It feels like the main thing Bayley’s been contributing to the group is just name value at this point. I wonder if that’s where we’re headed, with Dakota & IYO usurping more control, no pun intended, as opposed to just being Bayley’s lackeys. I get why Bayley is seen as the leader because this is her pet project and her idea but she has to know her as leader atleast in her current incarnation is just not working. So I am really hoping that IYO being more of a commanding presense here is s sign they may push her into the leade role and just scaling back Bayley...like let the casuals assume Bayley is still the leader but it is IYO taking that role. Maybe largely because STARDOM's entire thing is about factions or Units as they call them that just makes IYO more than a clear fit to take the reigns here as the leader and seeing as STARDOM is basically just giant gangwars then WWE needs to take bits and pieces and impliment here. Oh and give Dmg Cntrl a flag like IYO had for Queens Quest which I always thought was cool and just a powerful way to signify their presence. Hayley is also the leader because in terms of WWE, she is the most decorated woman of the three and the one who MR fans by far know the most I said when this started that I would have preferred that there not be a hard and set “leader.” There does not need to be.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2022 12:19:57 GMT -5
I get why Bayley is seen as the leader because this is her pet project and her idea but she has to know her as leader atleast in her current incarnation is just not working. So I am really hoping that IYO being more of a commanding presense here is s sign they may push her into the leade role and just scaling back Bayley...like let the casuals assume Bayley is still the leader but it is IYO taking that role. Maybe largely because STARDOM's entire thing is about factions or Units as they call them that just makes IYO more than a clear fit to take the reigns here as the leader and seeing as STARDOM is basically just giant gangwars then WWE needs to take bits and pieces and impliment here. Oh and give Dmg Cntrl a flag like IYO had for Queens Quest which I always thought was cool and just a powerful way to signify their presence. Hayley is also the leader because in terms of WWE, she is the most decorated woman of the three and the one who MR fans by far know the most I said when this started that I would have preferred that there not be a hard and set “leader.” There does not need to be. It is why I think they need to take alot more influence from STARDOM and see how they do it because they have all their women divided into units and unless you are outright comedy like a Fukigen Death they tend to all feel like equals within their own Units. And what helps that is sometimes the units members will face off with each other and the audience gets understand that no the set leader isn't just who you should be paying attention to IMO. Like when Mina faced Natsupoi in the grand prix , WHILE stable mates but beat the soul out of one another and helped bring Natsupoi further out of Giulias shadow and did not feel like she was any less than her stable leader Mina.
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Post by ThankGodForSidJustice on Oct 13, 2022 14:55:20 GMT -5
The lack of a good choice to fill the leader role is I think is definitely a reason why this group isn't clicking. Bayley you think would seem like a no brainer as she has the most name value and star power but doesn't have that commanding presence and comes off as forced. Iyo has the most physical charisma of the three but her limitations on the mic would make her a bad choice as well for that role. Dakota is the best talker but is the least accomplished and has the least star power so Bayley and Iyo taking orders from her wouldn't make sense.
Honestly I think they should have Bayley get kicked out and go face with the other two remaining together as a duo after Wargames which I'm guessing they are going to be part of. Bayley already lost to Bianca and I'm guessing is probably losing to her again at Crown Jewel as well so it's not like there is going to be anything useful for her to anyways.
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