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Post by Friday Night SmackOwn on Sept 28, 2022 13:10:16 GMT -5
While I think the era is (mostly) over, I do think that there are signs of discontent growing with some stars. Bianca being the biggest example. She's over with live fans right now, but we don't know how much longer that will last. Her character is stale and actively harms anyone she is feuding with, because WWE is too afraid to ever make her look even slightly weak. Same could be said about Roman. Still popular with live crowds, but there are signs his domiance is getting tiresome with some folks.
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Post by BayleyTiffyCodyCenaJudyHopps on Sept 28, 2022 13:20:21 GMT -5
To reiterate, bad acts of course are always going to bomb. But if a company’s ace doesn’t hit your sweet spot, there’s way many more wrestling options these days with a variety of talent being pushed, so there isn’t that toxic hate-fandom building against a star where fans let their anger fester because they feel their choices are limited.
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Post by tntchamp on Sept 28, 2022 13:21:34 GMT -5
Time will tell I guess. I feel if nothing else Triple H won't openly rebel against the fans just like Vince did. That and while AEW is not going to necessarily over take WWE, they at least remind WWE that they actually have to try and put effort in their shows and can't risk angering fans out of spite.
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Post by Jindrak Mark on Sept 28, 2022 13:23:54 GMT -5
While I think the era is (mostly) over, I do think that there are signs of discontent growing with some stars. Bianca being the biggest example. She's over with live fans right now, but we don't know how much longer that will last. Her character is stale and actively harms anyone she is feuding with, because WWE is too afraid to ever make her look even slightly weak. Same could be said about Roman. Still popular with live crowds, but there are signs his domiance is getting tiresome with some folks. What signs though? Ratings and attendance are great when he appears. Live reactions are great whether he's booed or cheered. His current storyline is getting critical acclaim. Roman v Rock is the biggest dream match in wrestling most fans are hoping to see. The only sign I see is people complaining about him online. That will never not happen to top stars though. I could easily find you old usenet groups from 1999 full of people saying they're tired of Austin and Rock is garbage.
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4real
Wade Wilson
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Post by 4real on Sept 28, 2022 14:18:24 GMT -5
I’d rather watch a show with baby faces I like so hopefully yes. Of course there will always be baby faces that don’t connect with all fans. Just don’t make them ‘The guy’ again please.
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Post by "Trickster Dogg" James Jesse on Sept 28, 2022 14:31:32 GMT -5
Probably not.
The Cena years in particular slowly killed my interest in pro wrestling. Watching the product with Cena on top felt like drowning in molasses. The Reigns years, up until I stopped watching WWE in 2016, were an indication that nothing was going to change in terms of the push when the fans are clearly indicating they want something contrariwise to what the bookers had presented.
The Bryan years just before Reigns was on top as The Guy was especially a mean salt rub to the wound of my wrestling fandom.
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Post by canceled4truth on Sept 28, 2022 14:42:49 GMT -5
Same could be said about Roman. Still popular with live crowds, but there are signs his domiance is getting tiresome with some folks. What signs though? Ratings and attendance are great when he appears. Live reactions are great whether he's booed or cheered. His current storyline is getting critical acclaim. Roman v Rock is the biggest dream match in wrestling most fans are hoping to see. The only sign I see is people complaining about him online. That will never not happen to top stars though. I could easily find you old usenet groups from 1999 full of people saying they're tired of Austin and Rock is garbage. Yeah, you're always gonna see a "polarizing" top star among online communities such as this one, because, quite frankly, people on a wrestling forum are more inclined to overanalyze everything about wrestling. Hell, it's why I'm here. But we often mistake our in-group observations with the wrestling fandom as a whole. Saw it happen with Cena, and it's happening now with Roman and Bianca, and it'll happen again with whoever is the top face after them.
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Post by sportatorium on Sept 28, 2022 15:05:24 GMT -5
Vince insisting that Cena stay the same babyface persona no matter what the audience thought was really just stubbornness. Same for continuing Reigns as the face nobody liked for the longest time. Even the tweener "I'm not a good guy or a bad guy, just THE guy" was mind numbing.
Vince hated considering how over wrestlers are as a contrast to his own ideas even though that Stone Cold & Rock got over way before he decided to push them as main eventers. The polarization is when something isn't getting over "JBL is poopy", "Suffering Succotash" and the rest of the wrestlers are still presented as a cut below.
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Post by ThankGodForSidJustice on Sept 28, 2022 15:51:01 GMT -5
Reading this read makes me realize how fickle wrestling can be. If they book a strongly booked face on top everyone complains. If they book a strongly booked heel on top of everyone complains.
I wonder if it was booked more like the 1997 WWF main event picture with a bunch of guys around the same level (Bret, HBK, Austin, Undertaker, Sid) with really no one who is obviously "The Guy" who is definitively pushed above everyone.
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kidkamikaze10
Dennis Stamp
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Post by kidkamikaze10 on Sept 28, 2022 16:40:27 GMT -5
A lot of this was a thing because of Vince. So yeah, it's over.
This isn't to say there won't be times where a big babyface gets turned on. Happens in NJPW quite a bit (for a match, and thankfully their Aces usually know how to adapt to that), happens in AEW (hi Cody), and ROH had plenty of examples of it. Fans are fickle like that.
But Vince was the only one who felt the need to turn it into a "polarizing" thing.
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Post by GodzillaIsMyMonster on Sept 28, 2022 17:00:39 GMT -5
Vince insisting that Cena stay the same babyface persona no matter what the audience thought was really just stubbornness. Same for continuing Reigns as the face nobody liked for the longest time. Even the tweener "I'm not a good guy or a bad guy, just THE guy" was mind numbing. Vince hated considering how over wrestlers are as a contrast to his own ideas even though that Stone Cold & Rock got over way before he decided to push them as main eventers. The polarization is when something isn't getting over "JBL is poopy", "Suffering Succotash" and the rest of the wrestlers are still presented as a cut below. Cena was kept that babyface because he sold more merchandise than any one ever. Like... his merch sales are astronomical.
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Post by GodzillaIsMyMonster on Sept 28, 2022 17:01:48 GMT -5
I really wonder how many of you watched WWF when Shawn was being pushed.
Cena and Roman have boring on his over push.
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Bo Rida
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Post by Bo Rida on Sept 28, 2022 17:05:36 GMT -5
I wonder if it was booked more like the 1997 WWF main event picture with a bunch of guys around the same level (Bret, HBK, Austin, Undertaker, Sid) with really no one who is obviously "The Guy" who is definitively pushed above everyone. I wish the big promotions were booked more like that. Or two on essentially the same level like Rock/Austin and Bret/HBK (prior to '97). Just hate one person dominanting, even if I like them as a wrestler. Brock being the reset to default settings option for so long is the main on-scrren thing that killed my interest in WWE. It's more acceptable in smaller promotions to have one stand out star they book around.
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Post by Big DSR Energy on Sept 28, 2022 17:50:19 GMT -5
Reading this read makes me realize how fickle wrestling can be. If they book a strongly booked face on top everyone complains. If they book a strongly booked heel on top of everyone complains. I wonder if it was booked more like the 1997 WWF main event picture with a bunch of guys around the same level (Bret, HBK, Austin, Undertaker, Sid) with really no one who is obviously "The Guy" who is definitively pushed above everyone. I would be willing to take 6-12 months of that, just as a breather from all the long reigns we've been having as of late. Don't pass the title around to EVERYBODY, but certainly a main event tier would be dope.
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
FANatic
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Sept 28, 2022 17:57:25 GMT -5
Get back to us if and when Karrion Kross or Bron Breaker win a world title...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 28, 2022 20:02:37 GMT -5
Good round of discussion here, although I definitely should clarify some things.
King Devitt, you’re pretty much right on with what I mean. I’m not really talking about someone like current Roman or 2002-2005 era Triple H, or just someone that may not vibe with how certain people online feel, such as Stone Cold or Rock back in the day. I of course understand that not everyone will like a wrestler, that’s not what I mean at all.
I specifically mean someone like John Cena where they get a mixed reaction from live audiences for ages and yet WWE do nothing to change perception and tries to antagonize those who are voicing their dislike. So even then, I’m not including Karrion Kross or anyone like that, unless Mr Aitch chooses to emulate his father in law and decides to dig in his heels against obvious signs.
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Post by Limity (BLM) on Sept 28, 2022 20:17:23 GMT -5
Good round of discussion here, although I definitely should clarify some things. King Devitt, you’re pretty much right on with what I mean. I’m not really talking about someone like current Roman or 2002-2005 era Triple H, or just someone that may not vibe with how certain people online feel, such as Stone Cold or Rock back in the day. I of course understand that not everyone will like a wrestler, that’s not what I mean at all. I specifically mean someone like John Cena where they get a mixed reaction from live audiences for ages and yet WWE do nothing to change perception and tries to antagonize those who are voicing their dislike. So even then, I’m not including Karrion Kross or anyone like that, unless Mr Aitch chooses to emulate his father in law and decides to dig in his heels against obvious signs. How did WWE try to antagonize anyone voicing their dislike with Cena? I was big into the product during Cena's initial RAW championship run, and greatly disliked him. I don't remember ever being antagonized by anyone. I disliked Cena but I could easily see why WWE stuck with him the way they did.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 28, 2022 20:34:27 GMT -5
Good round of discussion here, although I definitely should clarify some things. King Devitt, you’re pretty much right on with what I mean. I’m not really talking about someone like current Roman or 2002-2005 era Triple H, or just someone that may not vibe with how certain people online feel, such as Stone Cold or Rock back in the day. I of course understand that not everyone will like a wrestler, that’s not what I mean at all. I specifically mean someone like John Cena where they get a mixed reaction from live audiences for ages and yet WWE do nothing to change perception and tries to antagonize those who are voicing their dislike. So even then, I’m not including Karrion Kross or anyone like that, unless Mr Aitch chooses to emulate his father in law and decides to dig in his heels against obvious signs. How did WWE try to antagonize anyone voicing their dislike with Cena? I was big into the product during Cena's initial RAW championship run, and greatly disliked him. I don't remember ever being antagonized by anyone. I disliked Cena but I could easily see why WWE stuck with him the way they did. Maybe antagonize is a strong word, but I mean doing weird things like calling places Bizarro World and actually just generally like everything they were doing with Daniel Bryan in 2013. I feel that WWE were purposely twisting things and trying to make fans look silly just because they had a different opinion. I said Cena, but same stuff applies with Roman Reigns when he was a babyface as well. I realize that should maybe separate a little between points…the making fans look silly thing and Cena or Roman being top stars arent mutually exclusive, but you can’t deny that WWE had a habit of deliberately being dickish toward their paying customers, like Triple H’s “my friend Mark” promo. That was a company executive doing that on live tv, not just another wrestler.
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fw91
Patti Mayonnaise
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Post by fw91 on Sept 28, 2022 20:42:34 GMT -5
imo, nah. It may be a hot take, but I think wrestling fans are anti-establishment in nature.
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tirtefaa
Unicron
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Post by tirtefaa on Sept 29, 2022 1:42:41 GMT -5
I really wonder how many of you watched WWF when Shawn was being pushed. Man...you really enjoy railing on Shawn, as if he was the only person who wasn't drawing during this time. Fact of the matter is, Diesel, Bret, Sid and Undertaker also didn't draw during this time. Like, what are the other options? Razor? Vader? Jarrett? Bam Bam? Owen? No one drew because the product was garbage. Austin almost single handedly turned the product around.
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