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Post by Mid-Carder on Sept 30, 2022 1:53:14 GMT -5
Cena got backlash because he was dealing with a toxic crowd, pure and simple. The “rebellion” was always overstated. Today I Learned that finding Cena's 2005-onwards megapush unbearable makes me toxic. I thought I just didn't enjoy him anymore.
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tirtefaa
Unicron
If you wanna know the truth, you gotta dig up Johnny Booth.
Posts: 3,272
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Post by tirtefaa on Sept 30, 2022 2:14:42 GMT -5
I don't know about whether or not HBK deserved his push, but the crowd at MSG popping when Sid beat Michaels for the belt at the 1996 Survivor Series is interesting to look at. Shawn certainly was unpopular at moments in his career when he was supposed to be a face, but this could be applied to just about everyone with maybe the exception of Austin, who I never saw get booed as a face. Even Bret Hart got booed mercilessly against the Undertaker at Rumble '96. I would say the live audience was rightfully sick of Shawn being champion in 1996, but not because of who he was, but moreso how he was presented. The fans definitely got behind Shawn when he was a cocky heel and even in 95 he received good responses. But the lead in to making him champion, they stripped away several of the elements that made him stand out and they paired him with Jose Lothario, who no one was going to cheer for. I still enjoy his first title reign for the diversity of opponents he has, as well as match quality, but as a character, he wasn't interesting.
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Post by Limity (BLM) on Sept 30, 2022 3:24:02 GMT -5
How did WWE try to antagonize anyone voicing their dislike with Cena? I was big into the product during Cena's initial RAW championship run, and greatly disliked him. I don't remember ever being antagonized by anyone. I disliked Cena but I could easily see why WWE stuck with him the way they did. Maybe antagonize is a strong word, but I mean doing weird things like calling places Bizarro World and actually just generally like everything they were doing with Daniel Bryan in 2013. I feel that WWE were purposely twisting things and trying to make fans look silly just because they had a different opinion. I said Cena, but same stuff applies with Roman Reigns when he was a babyface as well. I realize that should maybe separate a little between points…the making fans look silly thing and Cena or Roman being top stars arent mutually exclusive, but you can’t deny that WWE had a habit of deliberately being dickish toward their paying customers, like Triple H’s “my friend Mark” promo. That was a company executive doing that on live tv, not just another wrestler. I can see what you mean now by antagonize, I would just argue that every action they took that "antagonized" people that disliked Cena was also a move TOWARDS those fans that did like Cena. So it's hard to say the WWE acted out of spite or maliciously. I'm endlessly fascinated by the Cena phenomenon. He may have been the only wrestler to be a tweener both within the fictional pro wrestling world and outside of it. Sure, Roman always had a part of the audience behind him, even at his most overall disliked, but nothing like what Cena had. An almost even split. And those that liked Cena put their money where their mouth was, so they couldn't be ignored.
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Post by BayleyTiffyCodyCenaJudyHopps on Sept 30, 2022 3:57:27 GMT -5
Cena got backlash because he was dealing with a toxic crowd, pure and simple. The “rebellion” was always overstated. Today I Learned that finding Cena's 2005-onwards megapush unbearable makes me toxic. I thought I just didn't enjoy him anymore. Well, if you weren’t part of that contingency who was hellbent on making me feel awful for rooting for Cena, then no, you’re not included in any of the fans I branded as toxic.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 30, 2022 7:38:08 GMT -5
I hope the era of one guy as the "face of the company" is long over.
That formula doesn't work these days
You need to have a variety of top stars so fans don't tune out and get sick of seeing the same guy win over and over again.
It works with Roman cause he's a heel and you're meant to not like it. But with Cena, it was unbearable to sit through. Face Roman wasn't as bad for me cause he took losses every now and then... but I can see why people hated it.
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Post by Aceorton on Sept 30, 2022 9:30:38 GMT -5
I don't think Shawn Michaels works as an example here. From the time the fans visibly tired of the Boyhood Dream stuff in '96 until he turned heel in the late summer of '97, we're talking a year and change before Vince said, "Yep - he needs to be the villain again." And the strength of his push was scaled back even earlier than that. If the 1997 Royal Rumble hadn't been in San Antonio, I'm not even convinced Shawn would have reclaimed the belt from Sid before losing his smile. And Vince, by all accounts, LOVED Shawn. Cena and Roman's super-pushes went on for YEARS with a large segment of the crowds hating on them. Vince knew he was the only real game in town during these years and just didn't want to listen to fan reactions anymore. Did you watch? Seriously. They shoved HBK hard! They acted like he was the second coming. Yeah. They did. But then it didn't work, so they stopped.
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Woo
Hank Scorpio
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Post by Woo on Sept 30, 2022 11:31:32 GMT -5
It wasn't toxic fans booing him. It was wrestling fans who like wrestling just as much as you did. Just because you were able to ignore all legitimate points they made about his character doesn't make you better than the other wrestling fans or invalidate their points about his bad booking. I was a massive fan of Cena in 2003 and early 2004. Then I stopped rooting for him. It wasn't me being toxic, I just didn't like his new character. His character never really changed? Yes it did? He was a pretty fly for a white guy rapper then a clean cut marine all-American type. In 2004 his character changed and then he never changed or evolved ever again.
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Post by Jindrak Mark on Sept 30, 2022 12:56:39 GMT -5
I hope the era of one guy as the "face of the company" is long over. That formula doesn't work these days AEW's best business by far was when they made it clear CM Punk is our guy now. His face is front and center on all the advertising and he beats everyone. WWE's business is doing great with Roman as the clear face of the company. Remember 02-04 when WWE business was failing and they had no clear face of the company? They put Cena in the spot in 05 and ratings/attendance go up. Or 92-97 when they kept switching from Luger to Yoko to Bret to Diesel to Shawn to Sid to Taker and business was in the toilet. Once they cemented Austin as THE guy though in early 98 business turned around. NJPW had no real top guy for much of the 2000s but once Tanahashi took that spot they started selling a bunch more tickets. You can have other big stars but pretty much all the most successful periods in wrestling history had one clear cut guy at the top. It's just easier to have that one person media and sponsors can point to and know. It doesn't mean that person has to be champion 100% of the time or main event every show but the numbers do seem to indicate having one S tier guy is better than having a bunch of A's.
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