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Post by THE FVNKER on Mar 25, 2023 7:44:25 GMT -5
A few pages back people were still like "WTF Tony?!" about this dude, now everyone is neutral about him being on TV.
What did I miss?
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mrbananagrabber
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Post by mrbananagrabber on Mar 25, 2023 8:01:30 GMT -5
A few pages back people were still like "WTF Tony?!" about this dude, now everyone is neutral about him being on TV. What did I miss? Started off with “why is he not being used?” To “actually they’ve tried to use him a couple of time times but he’s shot down every suggestion given to him.”
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Post by Red Mage Riot on Mar 25, 2023 16:00:07 GMT -5
A few pages back people were still like "WTF Tony?!" about this dude, now everyone is neutral about him being on TV. What did I miss? Started off with “why is he not being used?” To “actually they’ve tried to use him a couple of time times but he’s shot down every suggestion given to him.” Yeah, turning down one pitch, I can see, but turning down multiple pitches, then complaining you're not being used burns up my sympathy.
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Mar 25, 2023 16:22:35 GMT -5
Started off with “why is he not being used?” To “actually they’ve tried to use him a couple of time times but he’s shot down every suggestion given to him.” Yeah, turning down one pitch, I can see, but turning down multiple pitches, then complaining you're not being used burns up my sympathy. Also I don't think I've ever heard someone so unwilling to put someone else over that they're refusing to lose f***ing Battle Royals... like if that's true that's eye-popping shit.
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A Little Doo Doo
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Post by A Little Doo Doo on Mar 25, 2023 18:42:55 GMT -5
Miro thinks he's a hero, but right now he's being a real zero! {Spoiler}Still better than Top Dolla.
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Post by Allie Kitsune on Mar 25, 2023 19:05:29 GMT -5
Started off with “why is he not being used?” To “actually they’ve tried to use him a couple of time times but he’s shot down every suggestion given to him.” Yeah, turning down one pitch, I can see, but turning down multiple pitches, then complaining you're not being used burns up my sympathy. Not just turning down everything offered to him, but, as far as we know, not making any pitches on his own (aside from possibly "hire my wife") behalf either.
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A Little Doo Doo
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Post by A Little Doo Doo on Mar 26, 2023 18:19:00 GMT -5
We need a "1000 ideas Miro has turned down" thread.
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Post by Brandon Walsh is Insane. on Mar 27, 2023 0:20:38 GMT -5
Miro thinks he's a hero, but right now he's being a real zero! {Spoiler}{Spoiler}Still better than Top Dolla. Vanilla Ice gimmick incoming!
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Post by A Platypus Rave is Correct on Mar 27, 2023 1:12:49 GMT -5
If the battle royal story is true, that has to be the single lamest “not wanting to job” story in the history of wrestling. A battle royal! Undertaker was eliminated by Maven. Andre the Giant once eliminated himself running away from a snake. Macho Man was eliminated going for a pin! Their legends remain intact, I’m pretty sure Miro would be fine getting tossed by Hangman. The only thing I've heard this was Mil Mascaras eliminating himself from the Royal Rumble... I do think WWE misused him if only because Rusev Day was over and they reportedly told him "No they're cheering it to make fun of you don't listen to them" and never capitalized on any of it. There's definitely a middle ground where the guy deserved better than multiple "My wife left me" storylines and headgames from management, and maybe doesn't really have the clout and must-have superstar top guy power he thinks he's holding out for the recognition of. They wouldn't even put the f***ing Tag Titles on them. Yeah, Rusev was always getting himself over as a monster heel... and then as a comedy character... and then they didn't even let him get a midcard title or be the upper mid card monster...
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Post by Mozenrath on Mar 27, 2023 3:38:42 GMT -5
I am of two minds on it.
It's good to want to be a team player, but "come back just to unceremoniously lose" isn't exactly a great pitch, is it? Especially not for someone who has had like... I forget, has he been pinned clean yet in AEW? Guevara beating him for the TNT title was basically just short of a sniper shooting him in the back of the head in terms of how protected it was.
People complain about Lance Archer doing this, coming back just to put people over before vanishing again. Would Miro be better off doing that, too? Can Tony maybe try a little harder on a good pitch?
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Mar 27, 2023 3:45:20 GMT -5
I am of two minds on it. It's good to want to be a team player, but "come back just to unceremoniously lose" isn't exactly a great pitch, is it? Especially not for someone who has had like... I forget, has he been pinned clean yet in AEW? Guevara beating him for the TNT title was basically just short of a sniper shooting him in the back of the head in terms of how protected it was. People complain about Lance Archer doing this, coming back just to put people over before vanishing again. Would Miro be better off doing that, too? Can Tony maybe try a little harder on a good pitch? Well we don't know what's all been pitched, I can't imagine every pitch has just been him losing... but him losing a Battle Royal is literally nothing, especially to Hangman Page. Losing pinfall wise to Hobbs or Ethan has some merit to wanting to be protected, that's just overboard Miro's been pinned twice in AEW, Guevara and Danielson own the pins and Danielson's was due to the world title tourney that wasn't even supposed to happen, and I assume the House of Black stuff would have gone somewhere if Malakai didn't need a break, but they haven't gone back to that either. I don't know what Miro needs to come back but eventually you might just have to put your foot down if you're the boss, and in Miro's case, not think that losing to someone means he's never gonna do anything ever again or be taken any less seriously if he were to lose... dude was booked into a crater in WWE, I can't imagine AEW doing that, and they really weren't doing that since he's been here I personally pitched he should come back and be the one to dethrone Orange because there's story here already and Kip's been like the main antagonist since Orange has won the thing, but time will tell. I can't imagine he'd turn down winning a belt and then going on a mean streak with it himself.
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Post by Mozenrath on Mar 27, 2023 3:50:44 GMT -5
I am of two minds on it. It's good to want to be a team player, but "come back just to unceremoniously lose" isn't exactly a great pitch, is it? Especially not for someone who has had like... I forget, has he been pinned clean yet in AEW? Guevara beating him for the TNT title was basically just short of a sniper shooting him in the back of the head in terms of how protected it was. People complain about Lance Archer doing this, coming back just to put people over before vanishing again. Would Miro be better off doing that, too? Can Tony maybe try a little harder on a good pitch? Well we don't know what's all been pitched, I can't imagine every pitch has just been him losing... but him losing a Battle Royal is literally nothing, especially to Hangman Page. Losing pinfall wise to Hobbs or Ethan has some merit to wanting to be protected, that's just overboard Miro's been pinned twice in AEW, Guevara and Danielson own the pins and Danielson's was due to the world title tourney that wasn't even supposed to happen, and I assume the House of Black stuff would have gone somewhere if Malakai didn't need a break, but they haven't gone back to that either. I don't know what Miro needs to come back but eventually you might just have to put your foot down if you're the boss, and in Miro's case, not think that losing to someone means he's never gonna do anything ever again or be taken any less seriously if he were to lose... dude was booked into a crater in WWE, I can't imagine AEW doing that, and they really weren't doing that since he's been here I personally pitched he should come back and be the one to dethrone Orange because there's story here already and Kip's been like the main antagonist since Orange has won the thing, but time will tell. I can't imagine he'd turn down winning a belt and then going on a mean streak with it himself. I am mostly saying this in reference to the battle royal idea or the rumor that TK wanted him to come back and lose to Will Hobbs on some show, despite both being heels at the time and the pitch making absolutely no sense.
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Post by Feargus McReddit on Mar 27, 2023 4:06:15 GMT -5
I am mostly saying this in reference to the battle royal idea or the rumor that TK wanted him to come back and lose to Will Hobbs on some show, despite both being heels at the time and the pitch making absolutely no sense. I think we should say that we don't know the extent of those pitches or if other ideas weren't thrown out there that we never heard of. Like, I understand what you mean, but we don't know how consistently the conversations are either but at the end of the day, even if the pitches themselves were bad, wouldn't it be better to be at work so then you can try and fight your case yourself in the ring? For all the bashing about Malakai Black and how he went about some things (which we don't know for sure how much of it was mental health and how much of it was missing Zelina as an example etc), the best way for him to deal with things was to take a break, recharge and come back and now he's a trios champion. Where that leads down the road who knows? But he's on television and doing things with a stable which is better than us having this whole debate about remembering a Miro from almost 2 years ago.
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Post by Mozenrath on Mar 27, 2023 4:24:36 GMT -5
I am mostly saying this in reference to the battle royal idea or the rumor that TK wanted him to come back and lose to Will Hobbs on some show, despite both being heels at the time and the pitch making absolutely no sense. I think we should say that we don't know the extent of those pitches or if other ideas weren't thrown out there that we never heard of. Like, I understand what you mean, but we don't know how consistently the conversations are either but at the end of the day, even if the pitches themselves were bad, wouldn't it be better to be at work so then you can try and fight your case yourself in the ring? For all the bashing about Malakai Black and how he went about some things (which we don't know for sure how much of it was mental health and how much of it was missing Zelina as an example etc), the best way for him to deal with things was to take a break, recharge and come back and now he's a trios champion. Where that leads down the road who knows? But he's on television and doing things with a stable which is better than us having this whole debate about remembering a Miro from almost 2 years ago. Oh yeah, I do think Black was wise to step away, and TK was smart to be patient with him. I'd certainly like Miro to be back, he's one of my favorite wrestlers, but I guess the worry is if they brought him back to slum it while they hash something out, it could lessen the impact of a potential use case for him had they waited. But, yeah, it's a balance. If nothing else, people have clearly not forgotten him, so that much isn't an issue.
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Post by Feargus McReddit on Mar 27, 2023 4:42:29 GMT -5
Oh yeah, I do think Black was wise to step away, and TK was smart to be patient with him. I'd certainly like Miro to be back, he's one of my favorite wrestlers, but I guess the worry is if they brought him back to slum it while they hash something out, it could lessen the impact of a potential use case for him had they waited. But, yeah, it's a balance. If nothing else, people have clearly not forgotten him, so that much isn't an issue. Oh, I get that. But it's also the issue of, as I said before, if he's not going to take the role, someone absolutely will and if that someone else becomes reliable, it leaves less room for you to come back because you didn't even try to play ball the first time. Like you said, it is a balance and I can get wanting to keep people credible and doing stuff but you also need to be shown as someone willing to at least try.
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Post by Ben Wyatt on Mar 27, 2023 6:47:24 GMT -5
Oh yeah, I do think Black was wise to step away, and TK was smart to be patient with him. I'd certainly like Miro to be back, he's one of my favorite wrestlers, but I guess the worry is if they brought him back to slum it while they hash something out, it could lessen the impact of a potential use case for him had they waited. But, yeah, it's a balance. If nothing else, people have clearly not forgotten him, so that much isn't an issue. Oh, I get that. But it's also the issue of, as I said before, if he's not going to take the role, someone absolutely will and if that someone else becomes reliable, it leaves less room for you to come back because you didn't even try to play ball the first time. Like you said, it is a balance and I can get wanting to keep people credible and doing stuff but you also need to be shown as someone willing to at least try. Yeah, your last point is my issue with Miro. Though I suppose it would help if anyone knew what the guy actually wants
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Post by Feargus McReddit on Mar 27, 2023 6:52:55 GMT -5
Yeah, your last point is my issue with Miro. Though I suppose it would help if anyone knew what the guy actually wants Like, if there was an endgame for the Redeemer stuff and he doesn't want anything to get in the way of that, it'd be cool to find out what that is. If it's just "Come in, growl, squash fools" then, like...come on. There were bigger names than you who didn't get that. Sting's first in-ring action was being embedded into the ring by Brian Cage, for pete sake.
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Post by pinja on Mar 27, 2023 7:26:26 GMT -5
Yeah, your last point is my issue with Miro. Though I suppose it would help if anyone knew what the guy actually wants Like, if there was an endgame for the Redeemer stuff and he doesn't want anything to get in the way of that, it'd be cool to find out what that is. If it's just "Come in, growl, squash fools" then, like...come on. There were bigger names than you who didn't get that. Sting's first in-ring action was being embedded into the ring by Brian Cage, for pete sake. I have sympathy with Miro wanting to get booked strong, because I thought his last work and presentation were main event level. I also don't think he was surpassed by a ton of people or by a wide margin. The only thing I don't have sympathy for is the perception that he's destructive in turning down ideas. Like he can't or won't come up with a reasonable alternative or is too stuck in his ways. I wanted him to get booked as a world beater for an extensive run. When that didn't happen, I wanted him to get booked prominently as a big threat. Now that also didn't happen, I don't care anymore.
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Post by Feargus McReddit on Mar 27, 2023 8:08:55 GMT -5
I have sympathy with Miro wanting to get booked strong, because I thought his last work and presentation were main event level. I also don't think he was surpassed by a ton of people or by a wide margin. The point isn’t even about ability. Like, as an example, if you said to me what I’d rather see between Juice Robinson/Ricky Starks or Miro/Ricky Starks, I’d say the latter and I’m someone who likes both scenarios. But Juice Robinson is here and Miro isn’t. That’s the wider point. If you aren’t there to either fight your case or work for something that could work in the future, then you’re just a dude whose cashing his checks whilst Juice Robinson might be rewarded long term if he gets over. To put a (admittedly really simply summerized) WWE example on things, even though the politics are wildly different, Kevin Owens didn’t get offered a big contract and a match with Steve Austin just because AEW were ready to swoop in the moment January 2022 ended, it was because to them, he was putting in the work with the angles given, even the really shitty ones, and got rewarded…and also because AEW were ready to swoop in the moment January 2022 ended. And that’s really it. If there were proposals he came up with that were crappy and we haven’t heard them yet, he has about as much right to defend himself as anyone else. But he hasn’t so instead we have a “He said, he said nothing” situation which only makes Miro look like a “That doesn’t suit me, brother” guy and buying his time.
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Ben Wyatt
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Post by Ben Wyatt on Mar 27, 2023 8:30:56 GMT -5
I have sympathy with Miro wanting to get booked strong, because I thought his last work and presentation were main event level. I also don't think he was surpassed by a ton of people or by a wide margin. The point isn’t even about ability. Like, as an example, if you said to me what I’d rather see between Juice Robinson/Ricky Starks or Miro/Ricky Starks, I’d say the latter and I’m someone who likes both scenarios. But Juice Robinson is here and Miro isn’t. That’s the wider point. If you aren’t there to either fight your case or work for something that could work in the future, then you’re just a dude whose cashing his checks whilst Juice Robinson might be rewarded long term if he gets over. To put a (admittedly really simply summerized) WWE example on things, even though the politics are wildly different, Kevin Owens didn’t get offered a big contract and a match with Steve Austin just because AEW were ready to swoop in the moment January 2022 ended, it was because to them, he was putting in the work with the angles given, even the really shitty ones, and got rewarded…and also because AEW were ready to swoop in the moment January 2022 ended. And that’s really it. If there were proposals he came up with that were crappy and we haven’t heard them yet, he has about as much right to defend himself as anyone else. But he hasn’t so instead we have a “He said, he said nothing” situation which only makes Miro look like a “That doesn’t suit me, brother” and buying his time. Your first point reminds me of a story Shawn Michaels told in his book about how when frustrated with things around the end of the Rockers' run, Savage told him something along the lines of "Don't take yourself out of the game" with the point being as long as stuck it out, he could change the course of his career
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