2023 MLB Thread: Texas Rangers World Series Champions

[animaniac]

Jan 24, 2023 18:23:54 GMT -5 Renslayer said:

Scott Rolen and Fred McGriff are the only hall of Famers this year. Man, I guess

Really thought Helton would get in and Rolen would just miss. Other way happened.

[Ben Wyatt]

Jan 24, 2023 18:23:54 GMT -5 Renslayer said:

Scott Rolen and Fred McGriff are the only hall of Famers this year. Man, I guess

The WWE Hall of Fame is more legit than MLBs

[Heart of fools gold]

I want to be annoyed/mad/upset about the HoF but the truth is we all know the whole organization is a joke and they solidified that when they kept Bonds and Clemons out the hall. Argue if they cheated all you want hell add it to their plaque that they were either suspected or did but don't keep them out and say it's for the good of baseball integrity when you elected Ortiz who unlike Bonds actually was named on a failed PED test

[sfvega]

I tried to tell the HoF vote thread that Rolen was the one most trending to being elected. I hope everyone who got over 55% makes it eventually, even Sheff always loved his violent swing.

Also, still worth noting how different they treat Papi and Manny/A-Rod. PEDs is PEDs.

[ghost]

Rolen is deserving, IMO. McGriff was 7 HR shy of 500, which he probably would have reached if it wasn't for the 94/95 strike, so he's also a pretty reasonable induction. No issues with the inductions this year, with the usual caveats (PED guys).

[fw91]

They’ve reached a point where they are convincing themselves to induct someone during a stretch where there aren’t any slam dunk inductees. If they get over PEDS, we wouldn’t have this issue. Don’t think there will be a non controversial induction until we reach Ichiro and Pujols getting in.

[Captain Stud Muffin (BLM)]

Jan 25, 2023 7:39:00 GMT -5 fw91 said:

They’ve reached a point where they are convincing themselves to induct someone during a stretch where there aren’t any slam dunk inductees. If they get over PEDS, we wouldn’t have this issue. Don’t think there will be a non controversial induction until we reach Ichiro and Pujols getting in.

Writers: Pujols lied about his age, he’s got to wait

[Red Mage Riot]

Jan 25, 2023 7:39:00 GMT -5 fw91 said:

They’ve reached a point where they are convincing themselves to induct someone during a stretch where there aren’t any slam dunk inductees. If they get over PEDS, we wouldn’t have this issue. Don’t think there will be a non controversial induction until we reach Ichiro and Pujols getting in.

How long do we have until Ichiro's eligible?

[Captain Stud Muffin (BLM)]

Jan 25, 2023 11:39:56 GMT -5 Red Mage Riot said:

Jan 25, 2023 7:39:00 GMT -5 fw91 said:

They’ve reached a point where they are convincing themselves to induct someone during a stretch where there aren’t any slam dunk inductees. If they get over PEDS, we wouldn’t have this issue. Don’t think there will be a non controversial induction until we reach Ichiro and Pujols getting in.

How long do we have until Ichiro's eligible?

2025

[Confused Mark Wahlberg]

If those cheaters had taken Tom Emanski baseball camps instead of sticking needles in their asses, maybe they'd be in the HOF as well as McGriff.

[ghost]

Jan 25, 2023 7:39:00 GMT -5 fw91 said:

They’ve reached a point where they are convincing themselves to induct someone during a stretch where there aren’t any slam dunk inductees. If they get over PEDS, we wouldn’t have this issue. Don’t think there will be a non controversial induction until we reach Ichiro and Pujols getting in.

Adrian Beltre is eligible in 2024. That seems like a non controversial first ballot pick, unless there was a PED suspension that I am not remembering. The 2025 class has Ichiro (lock) and Sabathia (251 wins, probably a good shot). There are still some non controversial slots coming up, but yeah, without the PED guys, some years it's going to be dire, at least with the conventional voting. 

[fw91]

Jan 25, 2023 15:11:40 GMT -5 ghost said:

Jan 25, 2023 7:39:00 GMT -5 fw91 said:

They’ve reached a point where they are convincing themselves to induct someone during a stretch where there aren’t any slam dunk inductees. If they get over PEDS, we wouldn’t have this issue. Don’t think there will be a non controversial induction until we reach Ichiro and Pujols getting in.

Adrian Beltre is eligible in 2024. That seems like a non controversial first ballot pick, unless there was a PED suspension that I am not remembering. The 2025 class has Ichiro (lock) and Sabathia (251 wins, probably a good shot). There are still some non controversial slots coming up, but yeah, without the PED guys, some years it's going to be dire, at least with the conventional voting. 

Wow, forgot about Beltre

[BRV]

Jan 25, 2023 7:39:00 GMT -5 fw91 said:

They’ve reached a point where they are convincing themselves to induct someone during a stretch where there aren’t any slam dunk inductees. If they get over PEDS, we wouldn’t have this issue. Don’t think there will be a non controversial induction until we reach Ichiro and Pujols getting in.

That has to be the case, that they're rationalizing inducting Scott Rolen because he's perceived as a "safe" choice rather than incurring the wrath of inducting nobody at all (because they're not going to induct the guys with PED connections). That's how someone like Scott Rolen goes from 10.2 percent of the vote (43 votes) in his first year on the ballot in 2018 to 76.3 percent (297 votes) this year, despite his stats from his playing days remaining unchanged, unless they found some extra hits like this was "Mr. 3,000" or something.

I'm not going to pull a hot take and say Scott Rolen is the worst Hall of Famer to be inducted into Cooperstown, or anything like that, but man, I was a baseball fan for the duration of his entire career and at no point did I say to myself, "I've got to turn on the game, Scott Rolen's coming up to the plate!" or "Let's get tickets to the game, the Cardinals are coming to town and Scott Rolen's playing the hot corner!" He was a perfectly good player who had one outstanding season (2004), but he never finished top-3 in MVP voting and for a guy who had a 17-year career, his counting stats are pretty lackluster (he barely surpassed 2,000 hits and 300 home runs, which are not exactly benchmark figures for Hall of Fame induction).

Scott Rolen was a good player. But he was inducted because he didn't have a cloud over him when so many GREAT players did.

[fw91]

Jan 25, 2023 19:41:53 GMT -5 BRV said:

Jan 25, 2023 7:39:00 GMT -5 fw91 said:

They’ve reached a point where they are convincing themselves to induct someone during a stretch where there aren’t any slam dunk inductees. If they get over PEDS, we wouldn’t have this issue. Don’t think there will be a non controversial induction until we reach Ichiro and Pujols getting in.

That has to be the case, that they're rationalizing inducting Scott Rolen because he's perceived as a "safe" choice rather than incurring the wrath of inducting nobody at all (because they're not going to induct the guys with PED connections). That's how someone like Scott Rolen goes from 10.2 percent of the vote (43 votes) in his first year on the ballot in 2018 to 76.3 percent (297 votes) this year, despite his stats from his playing days remaining unchanged, unless they found some extra hits like this was "Mr. 3,000" or something.

I'm not going to pull a hot take and say Scott Rolen is the worst Hall of Famer to be inducted into Cooperstown, or anything like that, but man, I was a baseball fan for the duration of his entire career and at no point did I say to myself, "I've got to turn on the game, Scott Rolen's coming up to the plate!" or "Let's get tickets to the game, the Cardinals are coming to town and Scott Rolen's playing the hot corner!" He was a perfectly good player who had one outstanding season (2004), but he never finished top-3 in MVP voting and for a guy who had a 17-year career, his counting stats are pretty lackluster (he barely surpassed 2,000 hits and 300 home runs, which are not exactly benchmark figures for Hall of Fame induction).

Scott Rolen was a good player. But he was inducted because he didn't have a cloud over him when so many GREAT players did.

yep. But what I don't get is Billy Wagner and Todd Helton both would have been "safe" picks, and been a lot more reasobable.

[Heart of fools gold]

Jan 25, 2023 20:22:01 GMT -5 fw91 said:

Jan 25, 2023 19:41:53 GMT -5 BRV said:

That has to be the case, that they're rationalizing inducting Scott Rolen because he's perceived as a "safe" choice rather than incurring the wrath of inducting nobody at all (because they're not going to induct the guys with PED connections). That's how someone like Scott Rolen goes from 10.2 percent of the vote (43 votes) in his first year on the ballot in 2018 to 76.3 percent (297 votes) this year, despite his stats from his playing days remaining unchanged, unless they found some extra hits like this was "Mr. 3,000" or something.

I'm not going to pull a hot take and say Scott Rolen is the worst Hall of Famer to be inducted into Cooperstown, or anything like that, but man, I was a baseball fan for the duration of his entire career and at no point did I say to myself, "I've got to turn on the game, Scott Rolen's coming up to the plate!" or "Let's get tickets to the game, the Cardinals are coming to town and Scott Rolen's playing the hot corner!" He was a perfectly good player who had one outstanding season (2004), but he never finished top-3 in MVP voting and for a guy who had a 17-year career, his counting stats are pretty lackluster (he barely surpassed 2,000 hits and 300 home runs, which are not exactly benchmark figures for Hall of Fame induction).

Scott Rolen was a good player. But he was inducted because he didn't have a cloud over him when so many GREAT players did.

yep. But what I don't get is Billy Wagner and Todd Helton both would have been "safe" picks, and been a lot more reasobable.

Helton and Wagner are safe but the voters undervalue the closer (unless you were a Mo or Hoffman) and Helton gets dinged for the sin of playing in coors which the voters seems to act is the same as if he did peds

[The Captain]

Rolen is one of those guys who should get in a stacked class. His numbers are HOF-worthy, but he wasn't really a front and center star the way other slam dunk players are.

Him being the only real HOF entry in a voting pool snubbed because of PED users, both rumored and confirmed, just makes the BBWAA look small and petty.

[sfvega]

Jan 25, 2023 19:41:53 GMT -5 BRV said:

Jan 25, 2023 7:39:00 GMT -5 fw91 said:

They’ve reached a point where they are convincing themselves to induct someone during a stretch where there aren’t any slam dunk inductees. If they get over PEDS, we wouldn’t have this issue. Don’t think there will be a non controversial induction until we reach Ichiro and Pujols getting in.

That has to be the case, that they're rationalizing inducting Scott Rolen because he's perceived as a "safe" choice rather than incurring the wrath of inducting nobody at all (because they're not going to induct the guys with PED connections). That's how someone like Scott Rolen goes from 10.2 percent of the vote (43 votes) in his first year on the ballot in 2018 to 76.3 percent (297 votes) this year, despite his stats from his playing days remaining unchanged, unless they found some extra hits like this was "Mr. 3,000" or something.

I'm not going to pull a hot take and say Scott Rolen is the worst Hall of Famer to be inducted into Cooperstown, or anything like that, but man, I was a baseball fan for the duration of his entire career and at no point did I say to myself, "I've got to turn on the game, Scott Rolen's coming up to the plate!" or "Let's get tickets to the game, the Cardinals are coming to town and Scott Rolen's playing the hot corner!" He was a perfectly good player who had one outstanding season (2004), but he never finished top-3 in MVP voting and for a guy who had a 17-year career, his counting stats are pretty lackluster (he barely surpassed 2,000 hits and 300 home runs, which are not exactly benchmark figures for Hall of Fame induction).

Scott Rolen was a good player. But he was inducted because he didn't have a cloud over him when so many GREAT players did.

He is pretty comparable to Beltran who you voted for in the other thread. Better career BA/OBP, same career WAR, 9 ASG to 7, far superior fielder at a much tougher position. Beltran had a great deal more speed and better longevity, but even when he was a Cardinal, I never went to games to see Beltran. I'm sure Holliday and Puma were more well-regarded by the fans. They were both better hitters as well.

[fw91]

I'm a total Mets homer, but now I'm starting to think David Wright has a legit chance of getting in after a few years on the ballot. I don't think he's a hof calibur player, but after Rolen got in, maybe being a very good third basemen and an overall nice guy in NY wins over the apparently petty writers.

[Ben Wyatt]

I'd much rather have a HOF consisting of guys with a cloud over them than the growing number of "He was pretty good and he was probably(?) clean" players we've been getting

[Fundertaker]

And we still don't have Dave Stieb in the HoF.