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Post by EoE: Well There's Your Problem on Nov 8, 2022 16:30:36 GMT -5
Is there like, a second Austin Theory I don't know about? I'm so confused at how half of you see him as the next Brakkus. I get not thinking he's the next big thing but to me it feels like people just see him as "Vince's boy" and thus treat him as an OVW circa 2005 hoss rather than, you know, a legitimately talented worker A lot of it is that he’s problematic. That being “he allegedly did something outside of wrestling he didn’t get punished for”.
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Nosnorb
El Dandy
Nachos and Fraggle Rock are TIMELESS.
Posts: 8,377
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Post by Nosnorb on Nov 8, 2022 16:30:43 GMT -5
Hernandez Cashed in his Feast or Fired briefcase to turn a fatal 4 way into a fatal 5 way. On Monday, Austin Theory looked dumber than Hernandez did. At least Hernandez challenged for the top title in the promotion. If they weren't going to have Theory cash in on Reigns, at least give it to someone who would and could take the L. That doesn’t go against anything I said though. It’s in character for him to realize he’s not going to beat Roman anyway and try for a different title. And he’s portrayed as a dumb, cowardly heel a lot of the time as a character. He’s not ready for the main event yet and this won’t stop him from developing into that main eventer in the future if he has it in himself. It’s pretty clear Triple H wouldn’t have picked Theory to win the case so now that’s out of the way and Theory lost it in Theory fashion. He still looks like a geek for failing to win the US Title, a belt that he has held before. And it's still a missed opportunity to give the case to someone else to have a crack at Roman. It's clear that Trips wouldn't have picked him to win the case, but looking at how he lost it, it doesn't look like Triple H sees anything in Theory.
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Post by canceled4truth on Nov 8, 2022 16:33:21 GMT -5
Is there like, a second Austin Theory I don't know about? I'm so confused at how half of you see him as the next Brakkus. I get not thinking he's the next big thing but to me it feels like people just see him as "Vince's boy" and thus treat him as an OVW circa 2005 hoss rather than, you know, a legitimately talented worker A lot of it is that he’s problematic. That being “he allegedly did something outside of wrestling he didn’t punished for”. I get that too, but if that's the case then I wish people would just say that. When people shit on Riddle or JD McDonagh, as far as I've seen, it's usually "I don't like him because he's a POS," which is valid. Why not the same for him?
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Gus Richlen: Ruffian
Patti Mayonnaise
Metal Maestro: Co-winner of the FAN Idol Throwdown!
BAU BAU
Posts: 39,191
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Post by Gus Richlen: Ruffian on Nov 8, 2022 16:37:00 GMT -5
Not sure how reliable WrestleTalk is though I don't see them in the banned source list, but they're reporting that Trips still has plans to keep Theory in the spotlight but he may be more involved with Seth and Lashley and that backstage feeling is he's still in a better spot with Trips in charge than with Vince.
Make of that what you will, whether it be a hat, brooch, or pterodactyl.
Shit, never mind, read article again and Ringside News was the source. Disregard this post.
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Post by Finish Uncle Muffin’s Story on Nov 8, 2022 16:41:13 GMT -5
Is there like, a second Austin Theory I don't know about? I'm so confused at how half of you see him as the next Brakkus. I get not thinking he's the next big thing but to me it feels like people just see him as "Vince's boy" and thus treat him as an OVW circa 2005 hoss rather than, you know, a legitimately talented worker A lot of it is that he’s problematic. That being “he allegedly did something outside of wrestling he didn’t get punished for”. I also think him being a "Vince" guy got him a pretty unfair label. I remember people being hyped when he got hired. The dude IS talented.
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Nosnorb
El Dandy
Nachos and Fraggle Rock are TIMELESS.
Posts: 8,377
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Post by Nosnorb on Nov 8, 2022 16:42:33 GMT -5
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Post by canceled4truth on Nov 8, 2022 16:46:13 GMT -5
A lot of it is that he’s problematic. That being “he allegedly did something outside of wrestling he didn’t get punished for”. I also think him being a "Vince" guy got him a pretty unfair label. I remember people being hyped when he got hired. The dude IS talented. Obviously I have no way of knowing this for sure, but I truly do feel like if he had signed with AEW in 2019 straight out of being EVOLVE champion, people would rightfully have put him among the Four Pillars (back when that was a revered thing, anyways)
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Post by darbus alan on Nov 8, 2022 16:51:00 GMT -5
I mean, this is absolutely a burial and also undoing the MITB hotshot in a way that makes him look like an absolute geek. It would've saved him some face if he was made to defend his MITB case against Triple H's choice and lose with some dignity. But TBH, Austin Theory does nothing for me as a wrestler. Like, he's good enough from an in-ring standpoint, but plenty of people in WWE are "good enough" or much better. The most entertaining I found him was as a himbo on NXT and that's a solid midcard act. But nothing about him screams "Future World Champion." At least not now. Challenging for the US Championship instead of either of Roman's belts actually does make sense from a kayfabe standpoint. It also highlights how incompatible the typical cowardly MITB cash-in is with Roman's reigns (wordplay intended). And Austin isn't just going to challenge Roman straight up and be the guy who gets the rub. I'm not even sure if that was Vince's plan. Might just be time to retire or rework the MITB concept, though. It was an interesting idea when it first got introduced. Edge's and RVD's cash-ins were both great ways of highlighting how it can be used. But it got old hat after awhile. With the Triple H regime apparently calming down a bit on the gimmick match-focused PPV's, maybe it's time to move on.
While he didn't work in NJPW and I don't think he was ever considered an indy darling, he's also not one of these guys who went straight from college/pro sports into the WWE PC. He did the work on the indies. He was apparently trained by AR Fox, too.
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salz4life
Grimlock
Prichard is a guy who gets that his job is to service his boss.
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Post by salz4life on Nov 8, 2022 17:03:15 GMT -5
I thought he was great as the buffoon in The Way. I'm sure that's probably not where he wants or wanted to be, but I thought it was great.
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Post by polarbearpete on Nov 8, 2022 17:05:00 GMT -5
That doesn’t go against anything I said though. It’s in character for him to realize he’s not going to beat Roman anyway and try for a different title. And he’s portrayed as a dumb, cowardly heel a lot of the time as a character. He’s not ready for the main event yet and this won’t stop him from developing into that main eventer in the future if he has it in himself. It’s pretty clear Triple H wouldn’t have picked Theory to win the case so now that’s out of the way and Theory lost it in Theory fashion. He still looks like a geek for failing to win the US Title, a belt that he has held before. And it's still a missed opportunity to give the case to someone else to have a crack at Roman. It's clear that Trips wouldn't have picked him to win the case, but looking at how he lost it, it doesn't look like Triple H sees anything in Theory. He probably sees him as a midcard heel for the next couple of years and then go from there. Nothing wrong with that. And the losing the case thing has been done to death. It’s not needed during Mania season and they’ll have another MITB within 5 months time if it’s true it’s going to be at Mania this year too.
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Post by drjayphd (feat. Pitbull) on Nov 8, 2022 17:29:52 GMT -5
Hernandez Cashed in his Feast or Fired briefcase to turn a fatal 4 way into a fatal 5 way. On Monday, Austin Theory looked dumber than Hernandez did. At least Hernandez challenged for the top title in the promotion. If they weren't going to have Theory cash in on Reigns, at least give it to someone who would and could take the L. That doesn’t go against anything I said though. It’s in character for him to realize he’s not going to beat Roman anyway and try for a different title. And he’s portrayed as a dumb, cowardly heel a lot of the time as a character. He’s not ready for the main event yet and this won’t stop him from developing into that main eventer in the future if he has it in himself. It’s pretty clear Triple H wouldn’t have picked Theory to win the case so now that’s out of the way and Theory lost it in Theory fashion. Besides, wasn't Theory's whole arc "Vince's chosen one" in all that implies? He got unfair treatment, he got the briefcase because Vince shoehorned him into the match, now Vince is out of the picture and they promptly addressed that on camera by having Roman tell Theory "your daddy's not around any more". Theory's been getting called out for being over his head, he's gotta stand on his own and he went after what he probably thought was the best opportunity and blew it. Yes that opportunity was for the US title, not the top one, because he probably knows he couldn't beat Roman. Besides, he went after perennial main eventer and future Hall of Famer Seth Rollins, right? It's not like he ate it against Curtis Axel in those times when WWE didn't care about midcard titles, he lost to someone with way more credibility. This wasn't just getting the briefcase off of him (and also confirms that whoever's taking the titles off Roman, assuming it's before the next MITB, isn't going to do it that way, they're doing it in a straight-up match), this was the culmination of Theory's downfall as Vince's golden boy. If it wasn't Theory we'd be seeing a lot more people willing to let this play out. Just end Money in the Bank. It's time. At least make the cash in announced ahead of time. Steal the Lucha Underground Gift of the Gods policy: you can get a title shot whenever you want but you have to give one week notice to properly promote it. Solved. Also there's nothing saying the heel MITB holder can't do that and then spend the whole week trying to soften up the champ...
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Nosnorb
El Dandy
Nachos and Fraggle Rock are TIMELESS.
Posts: 8,377
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Post by Nosnorb on Nov 8, 2022 18:06:13 GMT -5
Besides, he went after perennial main eventer and future Hall of Famer Seth Rollins, right? It's not like he ate it against Curtis Axel in those times when WWE didn't care about midcard titles, he lost to someone with way more credibility. This wasn't just getting the briefcase off of him (and also confirms that whoever's taking the titles off Roman, assuming it's before the next MITB, isn't going to do it that way, they're doing it in a straight-up match), this was the culmination of Theory's downfall as Vince's golden boy. If it wasn't Theory we'd be seeing a lot more people willing to let this play out. Theory won his first US Title by beating Finn Balor. He still looked like a geek by failing to get the job done against Seth Rollins after Bobby Lashley had beaten the crap out of The Quad Cities finest. And after the career trajectory of Damien Sandow after he failed to get the job done against a one armed John Cena, I don't hold out much hope for Austin after last night.
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Post by Lizuka #BLM on Nov 8, 2022 18:18:53 GMT -5
The thing about, "Well actually this wasn't a burial because..." tangents is that when the popular consensus, both here and elsewhere, is that he looked like an idiot and a loser then, like, he looked like an idiot and a loser. There might be intent behind the move but the end result is that most people think he looks awful coming out of it so he does.
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4real
Wade Wilson
Posts: 28,722
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Post by 4real on Nov 8, 2022 19:10:39 GMT -5
This to me was a perfect opportunity for WWE to have him hold this for a full year or close to it. It’s obvious Theory is nowhere near ready to be a top Champion. Have him get more and more frustrated that he can’t cash in on Roman (or whoever, if anyone, beats Roman by July) and either lose or have the contract expire. Just do something different.
You could argue cashing in on the US Champ is different but it will do nothing for Theory I’m sure. The rush to get the briefcase off him is baffling to me. Why do it now?
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Post by Andew9001 on Nov 8, 2022 19:32:17 GMT -5
Is there like, a second Austin Theory I don't know about? I'm so confused at how half of you see him as the next Brakkus. I get not thinking he's the next big thing but to me it feels like people just see him as "Vince's boy" and thus treat him as an OVW circa 2005 hoss rather than, you know, a legitimately talented worker A lot of it is that he’s problematic. That being “he allegedly did something outside of wrestling he didn’t get punished for”. Is he really that problematic though? Far as from what i can find he was accused of being inappropriate by someone who provided no conclusive evidence and who then deleted all their socials and disapeared. Or was there more to it that got buried within all of the Speaking Out stories?
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Post by Vice honcho room temperature on Nov 8, 2022 19:50:33 GMT -5
This to me was a perfect opportunity for WWE to have him hold this for a full year or close to it. It’s obvious Theory is nowhere near ready to be a top Champion. Have him get more and more frustrated that he can’t cash in on Roman (or whoever, if anyone, beats Roman by July) and either lose or have the contract expire. Just do something different. You could argue cashing in on the US Champ is different but it will do nothing for Theory I’m sure. The rush to get the briefcase off him is baffling to me. Why do it now? I know but I think to establish it being cashed in for a mid card title you should have had him win it.
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Post by hbkid718 on Nov 8, 2022 20:50:10 GMT -5
Here are some Facts about Theory's Cash-In. He Held the MITB Briefcase for 129 Days, which was the 8th Longest of All-Time TOP 10 Longest MITB Cash-Ins 1) Carmella (6/27/17-4/10/18, 287 Days) 2) Edge (4/3/05-1/8/06, 280 Days) 3) Seth Rollins (6/29/14-3/29/15, 273 Days) 4) Dolph Ziggler (7/15/12-4/8/13, 267 Days) 5) Otis (5/10/20-10/25/20, 168 Days) 6) Sheamus 6/14/15-11/22/15, 161 Days) 7) Daniel Bryan (7/17/11-12/18/11, 154 Days) 8) Austin Theory (7/2/22-11/7/22, 129 Days 9) The Miz (7/18/10-11/27/10, 127 Days) 10) The Miz 10/25/20-2/21/21, 119 Days) Other Facts: - It was the 1st time that a MITB was Cashed in on a Championship that wasn't a WWE or Universal Championship. - It was the 10th Cash-In on Raw & 1st Cash-In on Raw since Big E cashed in on Bobby Lashley (9/13/21). - 2022 was the 6th year that 2 Cash-Ins took place after 2006, 2011, 2013, 2015, & 2019 - It was the 3rd Cash in in November: Miz cashed in on Randy Orton (11/27/10 RAW) & Sheamus cashed in on Roman Reigns (11/22/15 Survivor Series) - It was the 3rd time that Seth Rollins was cashed in on (Lost to Dean Ambrose (6/19/16 MITB) & Brock Lesnar (7/14/19 Extreme Rules), which ties Cena for most Cash-Ins (Cena also won the 3rd attempted Cash-In, defeated Damian Sandow) - It was the 5th Unsuccessful Cash-In after John Cena on CM Punk (won by DQ, 7/23/12), Damian Sandow on John Cena (10/28/13 RAW) Baron Corbin on Jinder Mahal (8/15/17 Smackdown), & Braun Strowman on Roman Reigns (9/16/18 Hell In A Cell). Here's the Complete History of the MITB now updated with Theory's Cash-in
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Post by Final Countdown Jones on Nov 8, 2022 21:12:36 GMT -5
I also think him being a "Vince" guy got him a pretty unfair label. I remember people being hyped when he got hired. The dude IS talented. Obviously I have no way of knowing this for sure, but I truly do feel like if he had signed with AEW in 2019 straight out of being EVOLVE champion, people would rightfully have put him among the Four Pillars (back when that was a revered thing, anyways) Or he would have ended up like Scorpio sky, a guy who got multiple pushes that this board responded to with months of video game memes, even after he started to find something more interesting for a brief spell. Not only are you relying on a situation you just made up, but you're also writing it off as though there aren't major name indie stalwarts who got signed in AEW and fell pretty fast from grace/were rejected from the start.
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Post by darbus alan on Nov 8, 2022 22:19:58 GMT -5
Obviously I have no way of knowing this for sure, but I truly do feel like if he had signed with AEW in 2019 straight out of being EVOLVE champion, people would rightfully have put him among the Four Pillars (back when that was a revered thing, anyways) Or he would have ended up like Scorpio sky, a guy who got multiple pushes that this board responded to with months of video game memes, even after he started to find something more interesting for a brief spell. Not only are you relying on a situation you just made up, but you're also writing it off as though there aren't major name indie stalwarts who got signed in AEW and fell pretty fast from grace/were rejected from the start. Like the hypothetical is neither here nor there because it's not like there's any way to actually prove what his reaction would be as an AEW guy. Maybe audiences would dig him. Maybe he'd get over but also overshadowed by more exciting talent. Maybe it'd still be exactly the same reaction he gets in WWE. I can't say I ever paid attention to his EVOLVE run or other work on the indies, so I don't know how different his wrestling style and persona is there compared to what he does now in WWE.
Does the "Vince's Chosen One" stink play into his reception along with the allegations against him? Probably. But I don't remember him being one of the most hyped NXT guys even before he caught Vince's eye or Speaking Out happened.
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Post by canceled4truth on Nov 8, 2022 23:49:21 GMT -5
Obviously I have no way of knowing this for sure, but I truly do feel like if he had signed with AEW in 2019 straight out of being EVOLVE champion, people would rightfully have put him among the Four Pillars (back when that was a revered thing, anyways) Or he would have ended up like Scorpio sky, a guy who got multiple pushes that this board responded to with months of video game memes, even after he started to find something more interesting for a brief spell. Not only are you relying on a situation you just made up, but you're also writing it off as though there aren't major name indie stalwarts who got signed in AEW and fell pretty fast from grace/were rejected from the start. That's a silly comparison, Scorpio is 14 years older than Theory. I brought up the Four Pillars specifically because a lot of the hype in both scenarios was based off them being young with loads of potential. Of course, I'd also argue that Theory is much more talented than Scorpio, but that's far more subjective.
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