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Post by Hit Girl on Sept 25, 2023 16:48:07 GMT -5
He should his ask his pal De Niro why he starred in that awful flop critically hated comic book movie "Joker"
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Post by Mighty Attack Tribble on Sept 25, 2023 17:02:41 GMT -5
He should his ask his pal De Niro why he starred in that awful flop critically hated comic book movie "Joker" Somewhere, Todd Phillips has just punched a wall because he sensed somebody just called Joker a comic book movie.
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Sept 25, 2023 18:13:08 GMT -5
He’s just still mad because Danny DeVito made a better Jimmy Hoffa movie than he did.
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Post by eJm on Sept 26, 2023 4:04:22 GMT -5
Honestly, getting a bit more context and as I said before...dude isn't wrong.
Like, we've discussed countless times before that the big issue is that the only major things being shown in big cinemas is big franchise stuff and maybe an A24 movie if those aren't being overwhelmed out. Like, I'm lucky enough to live in a place with two independent cinemas willing to showcase more stuff but most people don't have access to that and so their time is limited to just going to see those kinds of movies.
There used to be a point where people release big stuff, alternatives would come with it and people would have choice. Instead, most of those alternatives would go to streaming, get forgotten about because they don't get promoted and if they're lucky, they might get a DVD release (like Prey is) or if not, they might get taken off completely and become lost media only to those who don't want to pirate.
Scorsese isn't saying "All comic book movies suck" and he never has done, he's more saying that shouldn't be the only cinematic experience people get which is honestly fair. And hey, it's not like the potential replacement is better, Barbie made a billion dollars and instead of going "Greta Gerwig, we want you to do what you want for a lot of money", they go "Greta, we'll give you a lot of money to do a Barbie 2 and join the Hasbro Cinematic Universe with Uno, Nerf and Play-Doh".
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Post by AwamoriRock on Sept 26, 2023 7:24:56 GMT -5
Yeah the response from the hive not actually reading what he’s saying just proves him right again. Another W for the king.
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Sept 26, 2023 7:32:32 GMT -5
Honestly, getting a bit more context and as I said before...dude isn't wrong. Like, we've discussed countless times before that the big issue is that the only major things being shown in big cinemas is big franchise stuff and maybe an A24 movie if those aren't being overwhelmed out. Like, I'm lucky enough to live in a place with two independent cinemas willing to showcase more stuff but most people don't have access to that and so their time is limited to just going to see those kinds of movies. There used to be a point where people release big stuff, alternatives would come with it and people would have choice. Instead, most of those alternatives would go to streaming, get forgotten about because they don't get promoted and if they're lucky, they might get a DVD release (like Prey is) or if not, they might get taken off completely and become lost media only to those who don't want to pirate. Scorsese isn't saying "All comic book movies suck" and he never has done, he's more saying that shouldn't be the only cinematic experience people get which is honestly fair. And hey, it's not like the potential replacement is better, Barbie made a billion dollars and instead of going "Greta Gerwig, we want you to do what you want for a lot of money", they go "Greta, we'll give you a lot of money to do a Barbie 2 and join the Hasbro Cinematic Universe with Uno, Nerf and Play-Doh". None of those points means he doesn’t need to shut the f*** up and let people enjoy things.
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Post by eJm on Sept 26, 2023 7:36:04 GMT -5
None of those points means he doesn’t need to shut the f*** up and let people enjoy things. Dude, tell the people who keep asking him about it. He's 80 years old, he keeps saying he hasn't got many stories left to tell so all people want to ask him about is superhero movies so then threads like this exist. He's not saying these things unprovoked and if anything, all of this should have ended with the column he wrote which was nowhere near as bad as people made it out to be. If there's anyone you need to tell to shut the f*** up, it's entertainment interviewers. EDIT: Also, dude’s never specifically said people can’t enjoy those movies. He’s said what he thinks about them but hasn’t judged people who do. Just that corporate made stuff (and let’s be honest, most MCU movies are Feige made with another director’s name slapped on these days, Gunn and possibly Raimi being exceptions) isn’t good to be the only things in cinema which is totally reasonable.
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Sept 26, 2023 8:04:45 GMT -5
None of those points means he doesn’t need to shut the f*** up and let people enjoy things. Dude, tell the people who keep asking him about it. He's 80 years old, he keeps saying he hasn't got many stories left to tell so all people want to ask him about is superhero movies so then threads like this exist. He's not saying these things unprovoked and if anything, all of this should have ended with the column he wrote which was nowhere near as bad as people made it out to be. If there's anyone you need to tell to shut the f*** up, it's entertainment interviewers. EDIT: Also, dude’s never specifically said people can’t enjoy those movies. He’s said what he thinks about them but hasn’t judged people who do. Just that corporate made stuff (and let’s be honest, most MCU movies are Feige made with another director’s name slapped on these days, Gunn and possibly Raimi being exceptions) isn’t good to be the only things in cinema which is totally reasonable. Then the easiest solution is for Martin to say "no comment", as opposed to guilt trip consumers for having fun.
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Post by eJm on Sept 26, 2023 8:15:29 GMT -5
Then the easiest solution is for Martin to say "no comment", as opposed to guilt trip consumers for having fun. His point has never been about consumers. It’s always at the studios because the studios pay for those screens and a lot for them to air there. The trouble is, people spin the discourse to it being that way when it’s literally about the fact that variety is being shunned out of cinemas and put into streaming where yeah, people are going to see it as lesser because it’s always there. That’s the wider point. Instead we get people who, no offense, take it personally because that’s what headlines and clickbait says.
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Sept 26, 2023 8:39:42 GMT -5
Then the easiest solution is for Martin to say "no comment", as opposed to guilt trip consumers for having fun. His point has never been about consumers. It’s always at the studios because the studios pay for those screens and a lot for them to air there. The trouble is, people spin the discourse to it being that way when it’s literally about the fact that variety is being shunned out of cinemas and put into streaming where yeah, people are going to see it as lesser because it’s always there. That’s the wider point. Instead we get people who, no offense, take it personally because that’s what headlines and clickbait says. I’m sorry, but I firmly believe the “death of middle movies” is massively overstated. Budgets for studio projects are going to naturally go up because of inflation and how technology dictates how creators go about telling their stories. Much of all this strikes me as cyclical at worst- people will always want something new, then they’ll seek out more unique things that aren’t big tentpole pictures. Then those properties will make more money and the cycle will go on. I’m convinced he’s overreacting. If that means I’m taking it “too personal”, whatever.
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Post by Citizen Snips Has Left on Sept 26, 2023 8:42:10 GMT -5
It’s amazing to me that we’ve reached a point where people are suggesting Martin Scorsese should shut the f*** up during a discussion about films.
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Post by "Cane Dewey" Johnson on Sept 26, 2023 8:49:27 GMT -5
Superhero comic book movie fans are obviously the true lovers of cinema because they are masters at projection.
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Post by eJm on Sept 26, 2023 8:56:39 GMT -5
I’m sorry, but I firmly believe the “death of middle movies” is massively overstated. Budgets for studio projects are going to naturally go up because of inflation and how technology dictates how creators go about telling their stories. That's really not what it is at all. It's literally as simple as them seeing Endgame making $2bn on a $400m budget and went "Well, obviously, if we put more money into something, it'll make more money back". Technology hasn't changed as much because by that logic, Gareth Edwards' new film The Creator wouldn't have cost $80m to make. It's just trying to find an excuse to spend all the money given in the hopes that it all makes a billion dollars every time. It's literally the same problems video games are having. The technology has only improved so much yet companies are throwing hundreds of millions of dollars at an old IP to hope that'll be the thing that works. The only difference is that there isn't an equivalent of Fortnite or Geneshin Impact to tide people over before the next big tentpole movie, which itself leads to the problem of there not being a mid-budget game just not existing anymore. You're either an indie or a AAA studio. And you would be right if there was anything other than tentpole movies in the cinema but for the most part, there just isn't. In the big chain cinema I know of, the films that get the most screenings are sequels, franchises and maybe one screening of a locally made movie. The Creator has a lot of screenings, sure, but considering that's an original sci-fi movie rather than something familiar, that could do really well or utterly bomb but it has less of a chance of doing that because if it makes, like, $100m globally, it'll actually turn a profit. Scorsese's wider point has been when people are fed up of tentpoles, there's no reason for them to go to the cinema for anything new. Screenings of a film they know, sure, but right now, there's not many opportunities besides being brought by a streamer and not promoted for new filmmakers to get their work to a bigger audience.
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Sept 26, 2023 9:00:27 GMT -5
It’s amazing to me that we’ve reached a point where people are suggesting Martin Scorsese should shut the f*** up during a discussion about films. Thank you. I’ll take that as a compliment.
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Bang Bang Bart
Ozymandius
The King of North America
Posts: 60,595
Member is Online
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Post by Bang Bang Bart on Sept 26, 2023 9:08:06 GMT -5
I’m just tired.
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Post by Watch AEW Magnitude on Sept 26, 2023 9:56:05 GMT -5
It’s just weird seeing someone using rhetoric about “fighting back to save our culture” in regards to superhero movies, and they’re NOT railing against Marvel having more diverse casting.
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Post by Savage Gambino on Sept 26, 2023 10:21:44 GMT -5
A new Scorsese movie is out, so you know what that means: "Fighting back" against comic book movies by supporting the movies of a man who directed and/or produced seven of them and has said he wouldn't be opposed to more if the right project came along isn't the strongest argument. It is funny how you can always tell he has a new movie coming out because he has a new sound bite about big franchise films. I have all the respect in the world for Scorsese, but he's beginning to sound like the rapper who always has a new beef just in time for his album rollout. This particular line is genuinely funny: “The danger there is what it’s doing to our culture,” he said. “Because there are going to be generations now that think movies are only those — that’s what movies are.” As always, with all due respect, McDonalds has over a billion sold. It's become such a part of our lexicon that I can say "do you have McDonald's money" and we can all point to a moment like that in our childhoods. There's not one generation, now or in the future, who thinks "that's what food is". Is there an overreliance on big franchise fare, like comic book movies? Absolutely, but that's not the culture's fault, that's capitalism. I've been meh on most of the Marvel movies that have come out, but Marvel makes a line go up. I can't remember the last Fast and the Furious movie I saw, but Fast and the Furious makes a line go up. The major studios that have more or less monopolized the film industry are always going to favor mega franchises, because they make a line go up and, as Dan Olson put it succinctly, it's good when the line goes up. If we want to have a serious conversation about the multinationals all but killing independent studios, or globalization, or cost of living versus cost of tickets and concessions and how it costs damn near a day's wages for a family of four to go to the movies nowadays, that's a conversation I'm here for, but the whole "content vs cinema" and "let people enjoy things" back and forth, that's just boring to me.
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Sept 26, 2023 10:38:02 GMT -5
A new Scorsese movie is out, so you know what that means: "Fighting back" against comic book movies by supporting the movies of a man who directed and/or produced seven of them and has said he wouldn't be opposed to more if the right project came along isn't the strongest argument. It is funny how you can always tell he has a new movie coming out because he has a new sound bite about big franchise films. I have all the respect in the world for Scorsese, but he's beginning to sound like the rapper who always has a new beef just in time for his album rollout. This particular line is genuinely funny: “The danger there is what it’s doing to our culture,” he said. “Because there are going to be generations now that think movies are only those — that’s what movies are.” As always, with all due respect, McDonalds has over a billion sold. It's become such a part of our lexicon that I can say "do you have McDonald's money" and we can all point to a moment like that in our childhoods. There's not one generation, now or in the future, who thinks "that's what food is". Is there an overreliance on big franchise fare, like comic book movies? Absolutely, but that's not the culture's fault, that's capitalism. I've been meh on most of the Marvel movies that have come out, but Marvel makes a line go up. I can't remember the last Fast and the Furious movie I saw, but Fast and the Furious makes a line go up. The major studios that have more or less monopolized the film industry are always going to favor mega franchises, because they make a line go up and, as Dan Olson put it succinctly, it's good when the line goes up. If we want to have a serious conversation about the multinationals all but killing independent studios, or globalization, or cost of living versus cost of tickets and concessions and how it costs damn near a day's wages for a family of four to go to the movies nowadays, that's a conversation I'm here for, but the whole "content vs cinema" and "let people enjoy things" back and forth, that's just boring to me. Sure, fine. I apologize for "boring" people. If you all can't see why I have good reason to be upset by Martin's remarks, there's not much else I guess I can say.
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Post by Hit Girl on Sept 26, 2023 11:02:42 GMT -5
The way to save culture is to have more gangster movies. It's a neglected subject of film.
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Post by eJm on Sept 26, 2023 11:12:44 GMT -5
It is funny how you can always tell he has a new movie coming out because he has a new sound bite about big franchise films. Because people keep asking him about franchise movies. It's not like he finds a journalist, asks if he's from an entertainment publication and speaking his mind, it's a scheduled time done with PR and the actual publications so that they can get something out promoting said film. It's like how people wonder why Alan Moore keeps talking about Watchmen or modern comics, people keep asking him about it all the time. It's not like he wants to talk about this stuff, he's said countless times he's fed up of talking about it but it gets clicks so someone with a golden opportunity asks Moore/Scorsese/whoever about something they've trodden ground on so much it looks like the aftermath of Glastonbury because said writer needs to get eyeballs for their publication. Here's why that doesn't quite work; If I'm going to McDonalds, I'm not going there for a long time. I'm getting in there, ordering my food, getting my food and walking out, eating my food on the way home. Because it's fast and I need something to eat on my way home or somewhere where I forgot to eat beforehand. If I'm going to, say, Five Guys, I'm usually going to take my time with it because of how it's packaged and because I like hanging out in there. If I'm going to a bigger restaurant, I have no choice in the matter. I'm sitting there and eating what I order and expecting time to be taken. I'm going there with friends or on a date or something along those lines for an intended purpose. Just like the difference between getting a drink at a store and a drink at a bar or pub. If I'm going to a movie, whatever movie I go to is going to be longer than all of those. I need to get my ticket, get stuff to snack on, get to my seat, sit through ads, watch the movie and hope I don't need to go on many breaks and then go from there. The issue, again, is that big amounts of money are being spent on tentpole movies where once upon a time, there was more variety and counter-programming that would go into seeing movies. The bigger the risk these movies take to just be what they are, the less money goes into getting other, smaller movies into cinemas to avoid going to streaming services where companies and studios won't promote them as much. There's no interest in those because they aren't going to make the same thing as those movies do. Scorsese has never said he hates fun or hates people who watch just blockbusters, he's even said blockbusters are fun and have a place countless times, he's saying the wider scope of the issue. And we've talked about it before with these companies, they're risk averse and there are countless stories of them being risk averse which is fine if you're doing something that needs to be safe but you're producing media where people want to tell stories and do different things beyond the usual and it's hard to find a place in that right now whilst companies are overbudgeting movies that don't need to and losing money from it. Like, in what world did the new Indiana Jones movie need to be almost double what Crystal Skull was? What was the outcome of that going to be?
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