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Post by LiamMcDuggle on Dec 5, 2022 19:43:28 GMT -5
This is just in regards to many veterans in AEW talking about how no one listened to them. Well there is a reason why so many young wrestlers are hesitant - they grew up in a time where some of their favourite things on TV were sabotaged by old-timers who did not understand their style.
Around 2008 when the X-Div was the highest rated thing in TNA in terms of viewers, veterans like the Dudley's and every other old timer were screaming about how that style sucked. So TNA management listened to them, and the more they listened to the veterans, the more the viewership for that division sank.
They literally took TNA's hottest property, which was getting the highest TV ratings for the company, and started to mess with it, all because they didn't like the style. But here is the idiocy, that style WAS MAKING TNA MONEY!!!! People did not want stories around people like Abyss and Team 3D hijacking the X-Division, they wanted to see world class athletes have world class matches, and this was lost on anyone over 30 at the time.
While I certainly enjoy a match based with a ton of psychology, I also want to see Jay Lethal and AJ Styles have a barn burner. Not everything has to be the same.
At the time, Bubba and other veterans kept pointing to how these young guys bodies "would not hold up over the years". Well Jay Lethal, AJ Styles, Christopher Daniels, and almost everyone else from that era are still in great shape and all still capable of having great matches. In fact, they are in better shape in their 40's than what most veterans in that era were in their late 30's.
Oddly enough, Kevin Nash was one of the only veterans to ever "get" the division and pretty much parodied every veteran who would tear it down in those PCS videos, while also helping to establish a bunch of characters in that division, which helped all those guys make more money. He did all this without trying to regulate the style of the division.
Wrestling does not have to fit into a box. I don't get why so many old timers get so up in arms when another version of wrestling that they don't like is profitable
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Mozenrath
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Post by Mozenrath on Dec 5, 2022 19:59:49 GMT -5
It's not new. Lou Thesz buried the shit out of Harley Race, as did Karl Gotch.
TNA's an especially tragic case, though, since the X-Division and the Knockouts were the standouts, and remain to an extent the standouts for Impact, and they were constantly undermined. If TNA hadn't caved to these pressures, maybe it wouldn't have died and had to be reborn, like, multiple times due to "TNA" becoming a tarnished name in wrestling.
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Post by Bo Rida on Dec 6, 2022 1:44:52 GMT -5
Particularly stupid when there was more psychology in that unbreakable triple-threat than many of the overbooked and nonsensical NWA/TNA title matches combined.
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Post by nobody on Dec 6, 2022 4:28:57 GMT -5
The Hogan/Bischoff booking will never not be dumb. Especially from Bischoff’s end because he knew how popular cruiserweight guys were back in WCW.
Their ideas included giving the “no limits” X-Division a weight limit, all matches were now triple threat (removing any potential great 1v1 matches) and making Abyss champion. I’ll never understand it.
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chrom
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Post by chrom on Dec 6, 2022 4:40:24 GMT -5
The Hogan/Bischoff booking will never not be dumb. Especially from Bischoff’s end because he knew how popular cruiserweight guys were back in WCW. Their ideas included giving the “no limits” X-Division a weight limit, all matches were now triple threat (removing any potential great 1v1 matches) and making Abyss champion. I’ll never understand it. Don't forget the X-Cam, which painted the matches in an ugly yellow and lasted two weeks.
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Post by nobody on Dec 6, 2022 4:52:47 GMT -5
The Hogan/Bischoff booking will never not be dumb. Especially from Bischoff’s end because he knew how popular cruiserweight guys were back in WCW. Their ideas included giving the “no limits” X-Division a weight limit, all matches were now triple threat (removing any potential great 1v1 matches) and making Abyss champion. I’ll never understand it. Don't forget the X-Cam, which painted the matches in an ugly yellow and lasted two weeks. I’ve genuinely never heard of this. Looking at google this was a camera attached to the ref, is that correct?
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chrom
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Post by chrom on Dec 6, 2022 7:21:54 GMT -5
Don't forget the X-Cam, which painted the matches in an ugly yellow and lasted two weeks. I’ve genuinely never heard of this. Looking at google this was a camera attached to the ref, is that correct? Yep.
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Post by Baldobomb-22-OH-MAN!!! on Dec 6, 2022 11:18:37 GMT -5
Kevin Nash seemed to be literally the only veteran in TNA who was actually interested in helping younger guys out and not just doing a stupid greatest hits half assed nostalgia tour.
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Post by Alice Syndrome on Dec 6, 2022 11:27:33 GMT -5
Kevin Nash seemed to be literally the only veteran in TNA who was actually interested in helping younger guys out and not just doing a stupid greatest hits half assed nostalgia tour. If you ever need a reason to hate later career Booker T, look at how selfish his TNA run was.
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Post by Baldobomb-22-OH-MAN!!! on Dec 6, 2022 13:16:03 GMT -5
Kevin Nash seemed to be literally the only veteran in TNA who was actually interested in helping younger guys out and not just doing a stupid greatest hits half assed nostalgia tour. If you ever need a reason to hate later career Booker T, look at how selfish his TNA run was. Oh god yeah Booker in TNA was dire. Amusingly Kevin Nash was his tag partner for a lot of it.
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Post by LiamMcDuggle on Dec 6, 2022 14:30:55 GMT -5
Kevin Nash seemed to be literally the only veteran in TNA who was actually interested in helping younger guys out and not just doing a stupid greatest hits half assed nostalgia tour. If you ever need a reason to hate later career Booker T, look at how selfish his TNA run was. Iunno, this may be the great thing in wrestling history
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Post by defectiveepitaph on Dec 6, 2022 23:48:05 GMT -5
If you ever need a reason to hate later career Booker T, look at how selfish his TNA run was. Iunno, this may be the great thing in wrestling history That’s not Booker T, that’s Black Snooowwww
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Post by "Evil Brood" Jackson Vanik on Dec 6, 2022 23:57:48 GMT -5
It's amazing how TNA was a proving ground for a lot of concepts that others would later use (smaller guys getting over & women's wrestling working) but they just never fully latched onto those ideas themselves.
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Mozenrath
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Post by Mozenrath on Dec 7, 2022 0:34:36 GMT -5
Kevin Nash seemed to be literally the only veteran in TNA who was actually interested in helping younger guys out and not just doing a stupid greatest hits half assed nostalgia tour. If you ever need a reason to hate later career Booker T, look at how selfish his TNA run was. I get why he left WWE at that time, not the leas of which reason being he felt passed over since he wanted his training school/promotion to get a developmental deal, I think, but that doesn't excuse him taking out that bitterness by going to TNA and looking to milk it for all he could in his time there. Good to advocate for yourself, just, not like that.
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Rave
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Post by Rave on Dec 7, 2022 0:40:26 GMT -5
Oddly enough, Kevin Nash was one of the only veterans to ever "get" the division and pretty much parodied every veteran who would tear it down in those PCS videos, while also helping to establish a bunch of characters in that division, which helped all those guys make more money. He did all this without trying to regulate the style of the division. You wouldn't have known it was gonna end up that way from how that storyline started, since it smacked of the very thing it eventually parodied. It's amazing how TNA was a proving ground for a lot of concepts that others would later use (smaller guys getting over & women's wrestling working) but they just never fully latched onto those ideas themselves. Between not paying them, Dixie being jealous of them, management shifts including people who were against women's wrestling in general, the Brooke Hogan fiasco, and some of the...well, f***ing stupid gimmick matches and storylines involving them, we could do a separate thread on just TNA's treatment of the Knockouts. It's so much better these days, even though Jordynne's reign is getting tedious.
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Post by LiamMcDuggle on Dec 7, 2022 0:48:05 GMT -5
Oddly enough, Kevin Nash was one of the only veterans to ever "get" the division and pretty much parodied every veteran who would tear it down in those PCS videos, while also helping to establish a bunch of characters in that division, which helped all those guys make more money. He did all this without trying to regulate the style of the division. You wouldn't have known it was gonna end up that way from how that storyline started, since it smacked of the very thing it eventually parodied. I do remember Meltzer writing a serious excerpt about how Nash was delusional during this chart segment, where Nash (jokingly) makes claims that he was more than double as popular as Hogan and how 37,000 people saw him win the WWF title in MSG (capacity of 17k for wrestling). The joke was not even that subtle and it still went well over people's heads.
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Dec 7, 2022 1:37:03 GMT -5
If you ever need a reason to hate later career Booker T, look at how selfish his TNA run was. I get why he left WWE at that time, not the leas of which reason being he felt passed over since he wanted his training school/promotion to get a developmental deal, I think, but that doesn't excuse him taking out that bitterness by going to TNA and looking to milk it for all he could in his time there. Good to advocate for yourself, just, not like that. including demanding they make a title for him... which began the one of the worst titles in wrestling history with like 20 name and rule changes throughout it's existence. You wouldn't have known it was gonna end up that way from how that storyline started, since it smacked of the very thing it eventually parodied. I do remember Meltzer writing a serious excerpt about how Nash was delusional during this chart segment, where Nash (jokingly) makes claims that he was more than double as popular as Hogan and how 37,000 people saw him win the WWF title in MSG (capacity of 17k for wrestling). The joke was not even that subtle and it still went well over people's heads. Yeah... if nothing else the "does the Garden even hold that many people?" "it did that night" wink should have been enough for people to realize it...
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Mozenrath
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Post by Mozenrath on Dec 7, 2022 2:03:26 GMT -5
You wouldn't have known it was gonna end up that way from how that storyline started, since it smacked of the very thing it eventually parodied. I do remember Meltzer writing a serious excerpt about how Nash was delusional during this chart segment, where Nash (jokingly) makes claims that he was more than double as popular as Hogan and how 37,000 people saw him win the WWF title in MSG (capacity of 17k for wrestling). The joke was not even that subtle and it still went well over people's heads. There was still a lot of bad will towards Nash left over from WCW, fairly or not. (I'd say largely not fair.) So, between that and a mediocre early 2000s WWE run, people were pretty ready to dump on him, especially since TNA had played this kind of thing straight before. Nash is just legitimately funnier and better at reading a room than a lot of people thought at the time initially.
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Post by kingoftheindies on Dec 7, 2022 12:41:16 GMT -5
Nash has also said that when he started his feud with the X Division before the PCS series, that he was going to end up putting Saban and Shelly over but an injury stopped that.
I remember the Team 3d angle actually being over and really helped Jay Lethal and for a brief little bit Johnny Divine as well.
The Hulk years though almost killed the X Division dead
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Post by Feyrhausen on Dec 7, 2022 20:46:34 GMT -5
It's amazing how TNA was a proving ground for a lot of concepts that others would later use (smaller guys getting over & women's wrestling working) but they just never fully latched onto those ideas themselves. For the most part the womens division and the X division flourished when Russo had less influence. When Russo had his way it was always back to wannabe WWF WCW attitude BS.
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