Is AEW considered a stepping stone/rebound from wwe?

[Denny Zen is Cooking™]

I can't think of a single person who has used AEW as a "stepping stone" into WWE other than, arguably, Ben Carter/Nathan Frazer, and that hasn't even really panned out in his favor.

I think from a contract negotiation standpoint, AEW and WWE are borderline equals. Yes, WWE is larger and more popular and, yes, it likely always will be from a "mainstream" perspective, but I'm not sure that AEW is viewed as necessarily inferior to the average wrestling fan. It's a true alternative. So you get things like Randy Orton negotiating with AEW to try and leverage a bigger contract from WWE. As long as AEW exists and is thriving, guys are frequently going to jump from AEW to WWE, and vice versa, but not really as a "stepping stone." You're going to start to see people going to where they can make the most money and are happiest in their careers.

Kevin Owens is a fantastic example of someone who WWE is a better fit for him. Moxley is a fantastic example of someone who AEW is a better fit for him. But each definitely negotiated with the other to maximize value.

[Final Countdown Jones]

Can't help any individual performer's mindset. Some people definitely want out of there because it's 'the small time' and they think Trips will take them back. Others are thriving and finding another opportunity. The thing with just about highly concentrated markets is that you rarelyt have dead parity between two brands. Coca-Cola has almost double PepsiCo's market share but that doesn't make Pepsi the loser drink for runner-up losers with zero cultural value. Nike doubles Adidas's sales for shoes but Adidas still has plenty of clout and cultural presence, and if an athlete gets an Adidas sponsorship that still something with prestige to it before even getting into all of the other major brands out there. You aren't 'settling' if you wear Adidas.

AEW still needs time, still needs to settle into its groove, and for some people it will never be good enough and never have any value. Those people shouldn't really be listened to. Looking at the ratings and the growth, AEW is already at that point as the Adidas to WWE's Nike. TNA never reached that point in perception or in success. The only notable star who ever seemed to 'choose' TNA was Sting, who WWE didn't value to begin with. AEW has had some big names decide to walk away from good contract offers to come to AEW. Whatever Andrade thinks about his career position is an Andrade problem, not an AEW problem.

[The Dark Order Inferno]

I have little doubt AEW talent and staff view the WWE as the big guys, there's nothing wrong with being realistic about where you stand. It's not saying they will never be as big, or bigger, but it will take a lot of time and slow and steady growth to get to that point

Trying to go at the WWE on equal footing well before they had the fanbase effectively killed TNA, and Tony khan, whatever his flaws, is smart enough to have learned from that. The WWE have half a century's worth of headstart, contacts throughout the worlds of media and politics, with people who've run for president having been on their payroll, and not just the one you think.

["Evil Brood" Jackson Vanik]

I think getting folks like Jericho and Moxley to sign a second contract will help them fight that perception to some extent. TNA would bring in guys for a run who'd ultimately use TNA to go back to WWE (Nash, Christian, Booker) and those that stayed had often had issues preventing them from going back to WWE (like Angle). But those are two guys WWE would want in the fold and they chose to stay for a long time.

[Kalmia]

For some people, everything is a stepping stone to the WWE because wrestling begins and ends with WWE.

I'd hope most people realize that wrestling is more than that and places like AEW are an alternative and choosing to wrestle for one over the other just means that company suits you best.

[Final Countdown Jones]

TNA had a lot of mistakes and missteps to blame for why they never really got up to that point. One of them was that they just actually put on bad f***ing TV a lot. Vince Russo wrote for the vast majority of the company's existence between 2002 and 2011, which is a lot of time when wrestling really could have used a viable alternative on mainstream television, and it absolutely held it back. They undermined parts of its identity that could have mattered and could have been interesting, and instead desperately chased WWE's cast-offs without any real concept of what to do with them except make them the focal points of the company regardless of how good the work they were putting in even was.

Dixie being a clueless idiot meant that she put her trust in how to compete into snake oil salesmen who took advantage of her and milked her for every dime they could. They killed their momentum with a move to Monday night and proved they didn't have it in them, and then for good measure they tanked their publicity stunt with a horrible first show anyway. Also, TNA loved to remind you it was second best at every turn, and not just in a "They're doing this thing I don't like and that means they're bush league" way, but in having two guys with lots of TV time 'feud' with WWE wrestlers while never receiving any answer. Mindless clownery that only served to show that not only were they not on WWE's level, but they were sore about that and had to overcompensate by being obnoxious. TNA failed time after time to substantially prove it had any identity that wasn't just "not WWE" and despite whatever people try to say about AEW, it's consistently proved its identity and style to be something else and to serve a different audience instead of trying to desperately chase whatever they think WWE fans might tune in to.

There's really just no living down the time they put their top title on Eric Young out of absolute nowhere solely because he had a beard and they wanted to try and copy the Daniel Bryan vs. The Authority storyline. When you do shit like that you aren't being a viable alternative product in the marketplace, you're the wrestling equivalent of Ratatoing. AEW hasn't done anything even approaching that.

[Deleted]

Dec 27, 2022 11:57:06 GMT -5 Ringmaster said:

I live for the day when any wrestling company that isn't WWE will stop being labeled as a stepping stone to get to them.

As synonymous as WWE is with professional wrestling and as pervasive and ubiquitous as they are, that won't be changing anytime soon. 

End of the day, I just want to watch the wrestling I want to watch.  As long as AEW continues to be the wrestling I want to watch and maintains the roster and financials to keep putting out the product that I want to watch, WWE can do as they will.

[BayleyTiffyCodyCenaJudyHopps]

Looks to me like AEW as of now is nothing to sneeze at, strong live TV and seven digit gates are very significant. That’s big time.

But WWE has decades-plus of cultural influence and billions of dollars in deals for that lion’s share of visibility. That’s going to make them a major bucket list checkmark for a wrestler. At that point if you’re AEW staff, there’s no shame in being a strong #2 and one can hardly blame any performer for wanting to ply their craft on what they’d see as the biggest stage ever.

And yet AEW can’t present that attitude in public, because they do need to strive to be as close to #1 as possible in order to grow more.

[kingoftheindies]

For some yes for others no. Reading between the lines I do honestly think that there are some that probably came from WWE's system that thought they should be top of the card just because they were WWE.

I think the biggest thing though is AEW encourages you to pitch ideas. Hell a lot of guys who are getting featured got those spots because Jericho, Mox, and other vets wanted to work with them (Sting actually wanted to work with 2.0 cause they made him laugh). Some will love that freedom some won't.

I don't think may see it like ex attitude era guys saw TNA (because Tony isn't the money mark that Dixie was)where AEW is a paycheck and nothing else

[Deleted]

Dec 27, 2022 14:12:15 GMT -5 kingoftheindies said:

For some yes for others no. Reading between the lines I do honestly think that there are some that probably came from WWE's system that thought they should be top of the card just because they were WWE.

I think the biggest thing though is AEW encourages you to pitch ideas. Hell a lot of guys who are getting featured got those spots because Jericho, Mox, and other vets wanted to work with them (Sting actually wanted to work with 2.0 cause they made him laugh). Some will love that freedom some won't.

I don't think may see it like ex attitude era guys saw TNA (because Tony isn't the money mark that Dixie was)where AEW is a paycheck and nothing else

Good for 2.0.  Imagine going from being on NXT to working with f***ing Sting within 2 years

[XIII]

I think that if someone wants to be in the WWE then anywhere will be a rebound/stepping stone. I think that we also need to keep in mind that AEW has only been a thing for 3 or 4 years and the perception in outside media is still that WWE = wrestling. As AEW continues to grow hopefully they can help to challenge, because that will be good for everyone in wrestling.

[HMARK Center]

We were discussing this in the Miro thread, but yeah, there are some people in the business for whom it's "WWE or bust" or however else you want to phrase it, others who may have an active aversion to going to WWE, while most, I'd wager, are just professionals who'll give you their best so long as they're being paid well and treated with dignity.

End of the day with AEW you're working plenty of big markets and venues, you're getting paid well, and you're getting strong TV exposure and opportunities to do other things, as well (indies, international wrestling, streaming stuff, acting gigs, etc.) There's no matching the exposure level WWE grants within pro wrestling, and if you're interested in getting more mainstream exposure and opportunities ala what the Rock, Cena, and Batista have managed to get into then you're going to have a harder time outside that ecosystem, but for 99% of pro wrestlers that's not exactly in the cards, regardless.

But yeah, there's an interesting amount of speculation to be done when we try to guess how different groups of wrestlers view different promotions; a lot of early 2000s indie guys likely didn't spend too much time thinking about a big WWE deal since they came up in the industry when WWE wasn't hiring a lot of people like them, those a bit younger might've come up in a "WWE is the only game in town" environment, some come from different parts of the world that had different feelings about what it meant to "make it" in pro wrestling, you can go on and on and on about it. Again like I said in the Miro thread, I highly doubt guys like Kenny Omega and Bryan Danielson view WWE as the end goal and all other things as a distraction; Danielson obviously made a huge mark in WWE, but he'd happily wrestle anywhere, and both he and Omega have wrestled on nearly every big stage the industry offers, including facing each other on an AEW televised show in front of over 20,000 people in NYC. But other guys might come from times/places/perspectives that color their perceptions very differently, and what are you gonna do?

[Finish Uncle Muffin’s Story]

Dec 27, 2022 9:11:15 GMT -5 @negan said:

It will be equal as long as they don't fall into the trap that TNA did.

TNA fell off massively when they started putting the title on guys like Eric Young, Chris Sabin, Magnus and the like.

I feel AEW will go the same if they start putting guys like Ricky Starks, Daniel Garcia, Sammy Guevara and Action Andretti in the main event.

Whether anyone wants to admit it or not, they need star power to compete. Smaller Flippy guys is gonna make it feel like an Indy company.

1. WWE and AEW aren't equals. I think even the most passionate AEW fan would admit that today.

2. TNA fell off massively when Dixie put her last big bet investment into Hogan and Bischoff. They never recovered after that blew up in her face. Eric Young held the title for a brief time to try and leech off of the whole Daniel Bryan thing. Sabin had the title for a few weeks. Magnus wasn't the best, but at the very least, he was homegrown. But again, the issue there was Dixie didn't know what the f*** she was doing and invested in WWE hasbeens when they had incredible homegrown talent they didn't get behind.

3. Ricky Starks is getting star reactions. Sammy Guevara gets big time heel reactions. Action Andretti is nowhere near main events right now, he was handpicked by Jericho because he saw something in him. You may not like it, but I'll trust Chris Jericho's judgment on these things over yours.

Anyways, as it relates to the actual topic at hand, I think some people have to think of it as a rebound or stepping stone because it's a chance for them to rebuild themselves in the eyes of fans and wrestling management. I think we're still too early on in AEW's lifespan to actually know how wrestlers are going to use it. It's safe to say we're just going to see folks go back and forth between the companies over the next few years. That's how it should be. It's healthy.

[The Captain]

Using World Champion Chris Sabin as a reason why TNA fell off is all the proof you need to know someone wasn't actually paying attention to TNA at the time or even knows why that particular title reign was a failure. Hint: it had nothing to do with Chris Sabin's popularity as a talent.

And Nick Aldis had a classic "WWE-esque" look at 6'4" and 250ish lbs with a great physique. Surprised to see that in the muscle fetishist "indy flippy guys" list.

[Johnny Flamingo]

Dec 27, 2022 15:18:11 GMT -5 Finish Uncle Muffin’s Story said:

Dec 27, 2022 9:11:15 GMT -5 @negan said:

It will be equal as long as they don't fall into the trap that TNA did.

TNA fell off massively when they started putting the title on guys like Eric Young, Chris Sabin, Magnus and the like.

I feel AEW will go the same if they start putting guys like Ricky Starks, Daniel Garcia, Sammy Guevara and Action Andretti in the main event.

Whether anyone wants to admit it or not, they need star power to compete. Smaller Flippy guys is gonna make it feel like an Indy company.

1. WWE and AEW aren't equals. I think even the most passionate AEW fan would admit that today.

2. TNA fell off massively when Dixie put her last big bet investment into Hogan and Bischoff. They never recovered after that blew up in her face. Eric Young held the title for a brief time to try and leech off of the whole Daniel Bryan thing. Sabin had the title for a few weeks. Magnus wasn't the best, but at the very least, he was homegrown. But again, the issue there was Dixie didn't know what the f*** she was doing and invested in WWE hasbeens when they had incredible homegrown talent they didn't get behind.

3. Ricky Starks is getting star reactions. Sammy Guevara gets big time heel reactions. Action Andretti is nowhere near main events right now, he was handpicked by Jericho because he saw something in him. You may not like it, but I'll trust Chris Jericho's judgment on these things over yours.

Anyways, as it relates to the actual topic at hand, I think some people have to think of it as a rebound or stepping stone because it's a chance for them to rebuild themselves in the eyes of fans and wrestling management. I think we're still too early on in AEW's lifespan to actually know how wrestlers are going to use it. It's safe to say we're just going to see folks go back and forth between the companies over the next few years. That's how it should be. It's healthy.

TNA also let AJ Styles walk. Their biggest “homegrown” star. He was like Sting to WCW, the guy who you can’t let leave….and they did.

[kingoftheindies]

I think the thing to remember about Dixie with TNA is also this, and legit all talent will say this, Dixie assumed that if you were in WWE you were a big star and fans would treat you like a big star. Like even Stevie Richards said Dixie thought he was a bigger star than talent that had been main eventers in TNA because he was in WWE despite never being more than a low card guy... and let us not forget the Chavo push.

The only time I really think Tony fanboyed was the hyping up of Christian signing... and even that's debatable because many feel it was fans hyping it more than Tony was. I think Tony gives stars of the past proper respect, but it's never overdone like TNA.

[chazraps]

Dec 27, 2022 9:11:15 GMT -5 @negan said:

It will be equal as long as they don't fall into the trap that TNA did.

TNA fell off massively when they started putting the title on guys like Eric Young, Chris Sabin, Magnus and the like.

I'm curious, what's the "Trap" you think TNA fell into that caused the massive fall off?

[cjb01: Limited Edition Item!]

Dec 27, 2022 9:11:15 GMT -5 @negan said:

It will be equal as long as they don't fall into the trap that TNA did.

TNA fell off massively when they started putting the title on guys like Eric Young, Chris Sabin, Magnus and the like.

I feel AEW will go the same if they start putting guys like Ricky Starks, Daniel Garcia, Sammy Guevara and Action Andretti in the main event.

Whether anyone wants to admit it or not, they need star power to compete. Smaller Flippy guys is gonna make it feel like an Indy company.

How many times are you gonna shoehorn this opinion into AEW threads and absolutely derail them? Are you going for a record?

[Feargus McReddit]

Dec 27, 2022 9:11:15 GMT -5 @negan said:

-snip-

I really didn’t want to be replying to you because I said I wouldn’t so I’m just going to make this clear;

You’re not allowed to post stuff about sizes of wrestlers and whether you think they work to the “””””””””””casual””””””””””” fan who channel changes somehow in 2022 in any wrestling forum here when you don’t listen to counter arguments, statistic, history or anything else that goes against your own narrative that you cite from your Twitter feed or friends list or whatever you use.

It hijacks topics, leaving them post after post of you ignoring those points and making them over and over and it becomes pages and pages of people responding to you alone and hey, I’d rather that not happen to you in the same way I’d rather you not post the same stuff over and over again.

If you are willing to take in people’s points, give actual factual evidence to your claims and learn some history of why stuff actually didn’t succeed, I’ll retract this public warning.

If you want to say you like or dislike a show, great, we’d like to hear them. But this is your warning to stop. And this might seem harsh but we’re all fed up as mods of having to deal with the fall out every. Single. Time.

[One of the Cooler, Candid TOKs]

I cannot take any comparisons between TNA and AEW in good faith. There's 5 AEW shows every month that outdraw TNA's attendance record (6,700 in America, 8,100 in the UK), they regularly have stars on national media outlets, the network puts them next to NBA coverage in advertising materials, and crowds aren't regularly chanting for the booker and owner to be replaced.

TNA turned me into a hardcore wrestling fan, but it never was anything other than cheap TV programming for Spike (who gave them way too much leeway and support in hindsight) and a way for Panda Energy to move money around from the IRS while keeping Dixie away from the actual business. Their live events were regularly outdrawn by ROH, it was ran like a clown show, and by 2010 even the lifers like AJ and Daniels knew it would as a launching pad. AEW isn't close to WWE but it's the second-biggest wrestling promotion on the planet.