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Post by Final Countdown Jones on Dec 28, 2022 1:52:41 GMT -5
Let us remember that multiple talent, AJ Styles, MVP, Chris Daniels, Kaz, and others, all have similar stories to how bad TNA was at marketing. AJ and Daniels have the most famous where they were at a gym and were recognized and asked why they were in that town when Impact was that night. Both said that Impact was at the arena literally across from the gym they were working out with and nobody in the gym had any idea that TNA was in town. Keep in mind that Dixie has a degree in *checks notes* marketing and advertising. And yeah TNA was also insanely stupid when going on the road. It was time and honestly as they were getting ready to tour the show was insanely good. The issue of course was that Bischoff and Hulk (maybe Pritchard as well) convinced Dixie they had to book insanely big arenas they had no shot of selling out or coming close to selling out. Combine that TNA was insanely inept at advertising and you get the death sped up insanely fast. Of course at this point, Dixie's brother took over the day to day operations at Panda and when he saw TNA's books he wasn't willing to deal with what it became. Comparing Tony Khan to Dixie Carter is an insanely huge insult to Tony. TNA's marketing department, geniuses that they were, thought it was more important to buy a billboard in Stamford, Connecticut to stick it to THE COMPANY UP NORTH than to promote their shows in the markets they were being held. Mind you this billboard was nowhere near WWE's headquarters, but on some random road like a couple of miles away. Prime TNA makes the shots WWE and AEW take at each other look like Tony Khan and Triple H get together as drinking buddies on the weekend by comparison. It wasn't even a back and forth so much as TNA going "look at me!" while WWE outright ignored them. Because TNA was never a threat and they never would be.
AEW has so far done the real big thing that TNA never did, which is provoke a reaction out of WWE. Not to say any of the shots back and forth are positives, but TNA never amounted to f***ing any of that. TNA never managed to outdo a second of WWE programming in the ratings. TNA never got cited in an antitrust lawsuit filed against WWE as proof that competition exists. WWE almost fought against recognizing TNA but WWE forced them to recognize it before the company even had television. All of that alone makes AEW more successful as competition. |
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Post by kingoftheindies on Dec 28, 2022 7:27:41 GMT -5
1. WWE and AEW aren't equals. I think even the most passionate AEW fan would admit that today. 2. TNA fell off massively when Dixie put her last big bet investment into Hogan and Bischoff. They never recovered after that blew up in her face. Eric Young held the title for a brief time to try and leech off of the whole Daniel Bryan thing. Sabin had the title for a few weeks. Magnus wasn't the best, but at the very least, he was homegrown. But again, the issue there was Dixie didn't know what the f*** she was doing and invested in WWE hasbeens when they had incredible homegrown talent they didn't get behind.3. Ricky Starks is getting star reactions. Sammy Guevara gets big time heel reactions. Action Andretti is nowhere near main events right now, he was handpicked by Jericho because he saw something in him. You may not like it, but I'll trust Chris Jericho's judgment on these things over yours. Anyways, as it relates to the actual topic at hand, I think some people have to think of it as a rebound or stepping stone because it's a chance for them to rebuild themselves in the eyes of fans and wrestling management. I think we're still too early on in AEW's lifespan to actually know how wrestlers are going to use it. It's safe to say we're just going to see folks go back and forth between the companies over the next few years. That's how it should be. It's healthy. It's also worth noting in addition to point 2, the period right before Hogan and Bischoff came in was the only notable time TNA has ever been profitable. That period was where they put the majority of their faith behind guys like AJ Styles and Christopher Daniels. According to people involved with TNA they were profitable up till 2010. It wasn't a huge profit relatively speaking (couple million) but when they tried to go on the road they powers that be were woefully unprepared and ignorant for the costs. |
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Post by Baldobomb-22-OH-MAN!!! on Dec 28, 2022 8:19:54 GMT -5
Also TNA had already been collapsing in on itself for a few years when Sabin got a run. Hogan and Bischoff basically killed it. Couldn't it be argued that it was before Hogan and Bischoff? Like when guys like Booker T and Foley showed up? That's when you noticed a trend that they were focusing on older ex wwe guys who were there to collect easy money for less dates then leave when they felt like going back to WWE. oh yeah it was already bad (though I do have a soft spot for Mick's world title reign) but Hogan and Bischoff showed up to help a company that was bleeding to death and decided the best way to help the situation was to shoot it right in the brain. |
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Post by The Captain on Dec 28, 2022 15:41:10 GMT -5
It's also worth noting in addition to point 2, the period right before Hogan and Bischoff came in was the only notable time TNA has ever been profitable. That period was where they put the majority of their faith behind guys like AJ Styles and Christopher Daniels. According to people involved with TNA they were profitable up till 2010. It wasn't a huge profit relatively speaking (couple million) but when they tried to go on the road they powers that be were woefully unprepared and ignorant for the costs. They also decided to move Impact to Mondays to go directly against Raw. The first Monday show was the one where Hogan and his cronies debuted. And it was I believe the highest rated episode in Impact history. It was also the only episode to get that high because ratings plummeted the next few weeks once most people saw the show we were going to get was basically WCW 1999 but 11 years later. And WCW 1999 sucked enough in 1999. |
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Rave
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Post by Rave on Dec 28, 2022 16:27:38 GMT -5
According to people involved with TNA they were profitable up till 2010. It wasn't a huge profit relatively speaking (couple million) but when they tried to go on the road they powers that be were woefully unprepared and ignorant for the costs. They also decided to move Impact to Mondays to go directly against Raw. The first Monday show was the one where Hogan and his cronies debuted. And it was I believe the highest rated episode in Impact history. It was also the only episode to get that high because ratings plummeted the next few weeks once most people saw the show we were going to get was basically WCW 1999 but 11 years later. And WCW 1999 sucked enough in 1999. Here's another fun stat: the first Monday Impact took place on the 11th anniversary of the Fingerpoke of Doom. Talk about a bad omen. |
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Dan Royal
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Post by Dan Royal on Dec 28, 2022 18:24:03 GMT -5
For most it's just a matter of who's going to pay them and what.
Like I'm sure Jericho likes working with different talent, gets to creatively do what he wants. Doesn't have to work house shows. But mostly he probably enjoys the millions of guaranteed dollars he's getting paid.
I'm sure Moxley enjoys that getting to do death matches, working with guys from Japan, have "wild thing" as his theme song. But mostly he probably enjoys the millions of guaranteed dollars he's getting paid.
Whether it's a stepping stone or rebound to WWE is kind of irrelevant to them.
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Post by Feargus McReddit on Dec 28, 2022 18:29:20 GMT -5
I'm sure Moxley enjoys that getting to do death matches, working with guys from Japan, have "wild thing" as his theme song. But mostly he probably enjoys the millions of guaranteed dollars he's getting paid. From everything I’ve seen of Moxley, and listening to his autobiography, I never get the sense that money is that important to him, as long as he’s able to do the other stuff so, if anything, it’s the other way around. Like, he even said in his book that he’d probably have just stuck with New Japan and roaming the indies if he didn’t like the vibe Khan gave out. He wasn’t exactly itching for money at the time. |
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Post by A Platypus Rave is Correct on Dec 28, 2022 18:36:42 GMT -5
Can't help any individual performer's mindset. Some people definitely want out of there because it's 'the small time' and they think Trips will take them back. Others are thriving and finding another opportunity. The thing with just about highly concentrated markets is that you rarelyt have dead parity between two brands. Coca-Cola has almost double PepsiCo's market share but that doesn't make Pepsi the loser drink for runner-up losers with zero cultural value. Nike doubles Adidas's sales for shoes but Adidas still has plenty of clout and cultural presence, and if an athlete gets an Adidas sponsorship that still something with prestige to it before even getting into all of the other major brands out there. You aren't 'settling' if you wear Adidas. AEW still needs time, still needs to settle into its groove, and for some people it will never be good enough and never have any value. Those people shouldn't really be listened to. Looking at the ratings and the growth, AEW is already at that point as the Adidas to WWE's Nike. TNA never reached that point in perception or in success. The only notable star who ever seemed to 'choose' TNA was Sting, who WWE didn't value to begin with. AEW has had some big names decide to walk away from good contract offers to come to AEW. Whatever Andrade thinks about his career position is an Andrade problem, not an AEW problem. On the cola front Pepsi for years basically coasted on "We're the number 2 soda brand in the world". there's nothing wrong with being a solid #2 when there are thousands of alternatives. |
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Post by A Platypus Rave is Correct on Dec 28, 2022 18:37:47 GMT -5
I'm sure Moxley enjoys that getting to do death matches, working with guys from Japan, have "wild thing" as his theme song. But mostly he probably enjoys the millions of guaranteed dollars he's getting paid. From everything I’ve seen of Moxley, and listening to his autobiography, I never get the sense that money is not that important to him, as long as he’s able to do the other stuff so, if anything, it’s the other way around. Like, he even said in his book that he’d probably have just stuck with New Japan and roaming the indies if he didn’t like the vibe Khan gave out. He wasn’t exactly itching for money at the time. Yeah if Mox was in it for the Money he wouldn't have left teh WWE... where he was making bank but was just creatively tired of dealing with Vince and his promises. |
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Dan Royal
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Post by Dan Royal on Dec 28, 2022 18:45:17 GMT -5
From what's been reported AEW, is paying Moxley 6 million a year. I don't know, I think money may have been a bit of a factor when choosing to sign with them.
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Post by nickcave on Dec 28, 2022 18:58:07 GMT -5
I don't think so, I think it's on more equal footing with WWE in terms of viewership than many want to believe at this point.
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Post by Feargus McReddit on Dec 28, 2022 18:58:32 GMT -5
From what's been reported AEW, is paying Moxley 6 million a year. I don't know, I think money may have been a bit of a factor when choosing to sign with them. I didn’t say it wasn’t. But he was inches away from saying no to being a face of a new national company after dealing with the only national he worked for and how they worked. As Plat said, if money was the biggest concern, he would have signed the contract renewal he was given from WWE instead of letting his present one expire. |
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Post by Dr. Bolty, Disaster Enby on Dec 28, 2022 19:00:48 GMT -5
I don't think so, I think it's on more equal footing with WWE in terms of viewership than many want to believe at this point. Eh, the numbers point to AEW being a very firm #2, and that's OK. It's also backed by WWE having such a long, sustained run of cultural relevance that it'll take either generational turnover or AEW becoming an outright fad (of a kind not really seen in today's TV landscape) to change that status quo. As far as generational turnover: the two promotions are more even than you'd think among preteens, teens, and young adults. That's huge, but it's a big qualification on "equal footing." |
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Post by ChitownKnight on Dec 28, 2022 19:01:39 GMT -5
From what's been reported AEW, is paying Moxley 6 million a year. I don't know, I think money may have been a bit of a factor when choosing to sign with them. I didn’t say it wasn’t. But he was inches away from saying no to being a face of a new national company after dealing with the only national he worked for and how they worked. As Plat said, if money was the biggest concern, he would have signed the contract renewal he was given from WWE instead of letting his present one expire. I think the reports said that he didn’t even try negotiating with wwe and just signed the AEW contract. Which I don’t blame him for. Even if he went back to wwe I doubt that he’d be the ace or close to it like he is in AEW |
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Post by Feargus McReddit on Dec 28, 2022 19:04:43 GMT -5
I didn’t say it wasn’t. But he was inches away from saying no to being a face of a new national company after dealing with the only national he worked for and how they worked. As Plat said, if money was the biggest concern, he would have signed the contract renewal he was given from WWE instead of letting his present one expire. I think the reports said that he didn’t even try negotiating with wwe and just signed the AEW contract. Which I don’t blame him for. Even if he went back to wwe I doubt that he’d be the ace or close to it like he is in AEW I was more talking about when he first signed but yes, by all accounts, Moxley just signed a new AEW contract instead of trying to play both sides like others did. Which, again, doesn’t seem like a guy who cares much about money as much as being allowed to do what he feels passionate about. |
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Post by kingoftheindies on Dec 28, 2022 19:30:55 GMT -5
Mox likes the freedom he gets in AEW, he's also made jokes that once this contract ends with AEW he is likely going home to be a stay at home dad while Renee makes the bread.
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