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Post by kingoftheindies on Dec 27, 2022 17:14:42 GMT -5
I cannot take any comparisons between TNA and AEW in good faith. There's 5 AEW shows every month that outdraw TNA's attendance record (6,700 in America, 8,100 in the UK), they regularly have stars on national media outlets, the network puts them next to NBA coverage in advertising materials, and crowds aren't regularly chanting for the booker and owner to be replaced. TNA turned me into a hardcore wrestling fan, but it never was anything other than cheap TV programming for Spike (who gave them way too much leeway and support in hindsight) and a way for Panda Energy to move money around from the IRS while keeping Dixie away from the actual business. Their live events were regularly outdrawn by ROH, it was ran like a clown show, and by 2010 even the lifers like AJ and Daniels knew it would as a launching pad. AEW isn't close to WWE but it's the second-biggest wrestling promotion on the planet. I think a lot of people still look at the downward trend AEW had going during summer and All Out and the upward trend WWE had after Vince retired but haven't paid attention to either since. that time frame. That's not to tear WWE down but I think things are treading downward creatively where as I think AEW has been trending in the right direction creatively... but I also think people gotta realize any wrestling company will have ups and downs... and I see most of AEW's issues more as growing pains (and have said this in the past, AEW has by all accounts surpassed even optimistic financial projections Tony and his crew had) But the TNA comparisons also come from signing ex WWE talent (though I consider AEW signing WWE talent in 2021/2022 much different quality than TNA doing that in the mid 2000s), and a lot of people for whatever reason think of Tony as a money mark. He may be a bit thin skinned at times, but I wouldn't put him anywhere near what Dixie was |
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XIII
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
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Post by XIII on Dec 27, 2022 17:24:20 GMT -5
I think that one of the biggest differences between AEW and TNA is that TNA would get ex-WWE guys and push the hell out of them despite them clearly being there to just collect a check and putting in minimal effort at the expense of talent that the fans wanted to see pushed ans were working hard. AEW has some exWWE guys that they feature(Jericho, FTR, Billy Gunn, Punk(before the muffins), Moxley, Bryan and Saraya(I'm likely forgetting some) and some guys that come in and don't seem to want to put in the work (Andrade, Miro, etc.) the ones that they feature are still over, can work, and draw good reactions. The ones that don't give a damn don't get featured.
So until AEW starts pushing a scrub that's putting little effort in just because he was in the WWE over the others then there's really no argument.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2022 17:36:50 GMT -5
I really didn’t want to be replying to you because I said I wouldn’t so I’m just going to make this clear; You’re not allowed to post stuff about sizes of wrestlers and whether you think they work to the “””””””””””casual””””””””””” fan who channel changes somehow in 2022 in any wrestling forum here when you don’t listen to counter arguments, statistic, history or anything else that goes against your own narrative that you cite from your Twitter feed or friends list or whatever you use. It hijacks topics, leaving them post after post of you ignoring those points and making them over and over and it becomes pages and pages of people responding to you alone and hey, I’d rather that not happen to you in the same way I’d rather you not post the same stuff over and over again. If you are willing to take in people’s points, give actual factual evidence to your claims and learn some history of why stuff actually didn’t succeed, I’ll retract this public warning. If you want to say you like or dislike a show, great, we’d like to hear them. But this is your warning to stop. And this might seem harsh but we’re all fed up as mods of having to deal with the fall out every. Single. Time. Is it or is it not true that TNA fell off when they started putting the title on guys like Sabin, Young, Magnus and Eddie Edwards? Up until that point, TNA were seen as the number 2 company. Then all of a sudden, the company stopped mattering. You can't tell me the quality of their World Champions hasn't played a part in that. The quality has massively declined since the days of Kurt, AJ, Sting, Hardy... Even guys like Anderson and Roode had a bit of main event quality to them. AEW right now has had credible world champions. Guys like Kenny, Punk, Mox, Hangman and MJF I can buy as World Champions. All credible with good characters and reputations. Those other guys I mentioned? Not so much. And it doesn't matter how much they're pushed, I am not buying certain guys beating guys like Hobbs, Archer, Luchasaurus and Brian Cage. It looks forced and fake to me. Same way it looked forced and fake when guys like Mark Henry were losing in 2 minutes to guys like Ted DiBiase Jr. If the AEW main event scene in 2 years time is Sammy Guevara, Jungle Boy, Darby Allin and Ricky Starks, I am positive no "big" names in WWE will want to jump ship. It will feel like a massive step down for them. Now if the main event scene was Punk, Kenny, Moxley, Omega? That's a different story. There's big dream matches and moments to be had there. I don't see why it's so offensive for me to say I'd prefer if AEW were pushing guys like Hobbs, Cage, Keith Lee and others. I see star potential and crossover appeal in those guys. Its not a crime to see that. |
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Post by The Captain on Dec 27, 2022 18:00:11 GMT -5
TNA fell off because of Hogan and his geriatric friends, horrendous angles involving stables like Aces and Eights, Fourtune, and Immortal, and Dixie pissing off Spike by doing shit like hiring Vince Russo behind their backs despite Spike telling her not to do it. Not because of any of the bullshit you're spitting.
Eddie Edwards didn't even win his first TNA World Championship until 2016!
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Post by Feargus McReddit on Dec 27, 2022 18:12:43 GMT -5
My dude, this post is EXACTLY what I’m talking about it. You have a right to your view, just stop acting like it’s the defining factor when there are articles, books and people posting in these threads telling you the main factors to these things. Like…just stop ignoring all that and none of this is an issue and I don’t have to suspend you for a week. It’s not hard. |
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cjb01: Limited Edition Item!
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Post by cjb01: Limited Edition Item! on Dec 27, 2022 18:25:08 GMT -5
I really didn’t want to be replying to you because I said I wouldn’t so I’m just going to make this clear; You’re not allowed to post stuff about sizes of wrestlers and whether you think they work to the “””””””””””casual””””””””””” fan who channel changes somehow in 2022 in any wrestling forum here when you don’t listen to counter arguments, statistic, history or anything else that goes against your own narrative that you cite from your Twitter feed or friends list or whatever you use. It hijacks topics, leaving them post after post of you ignoring those points and making them over and over and it becomes pages and pages of people responding to you alone and hey, I’d rather that not happen to you in the same way I’d rather you not post the same stuff over and over again. If you are willing to take in people’s points, give actual factual evidence to your claims and learn some history of why stuff actually didn’t succeed, I’ll retract this public warning. If you want to say you like or dislike a show, great, we’d like to hear them. But this is your warning to stop. And this might seem harsh but we’re all fed up as mods of having to deal with the fall out every. Single. Time. Is it or is it not true that TNA fell off when they started putting the title on guys like Sabin, Young, Magnus and Eddie Edwards? Up until that point, TNA were seen as the number 2 company. Then all of a sudden, the company stopped mattering. You can't tell me the quality of their World Champions hasn't played a part in that. The quality has massively declined since the days of Kurt, AJ, Sting, Hardy... Even guys like Anderson and Roode had a bit of main event quality to them. I can absolutely say the world champions of that era were NOT the f***ing reason TNA "stopped mattering" or declined in quality over the years. We have literal deathwatch threads and spoiler threads that tell you exactly why TNA cratered and almost died during this time, and it was not because "Smaller guys became world champion", it was the overall presentation of the entire show, money drying up, and Dixie Carter openly taking a shit on the network they were currently attached to without even realizing she did it publicly, that really hurt TNA more than the perception that because a "smaller guy" was champion, they suddenly weren't the number 2 company anymore, and to blatantly ignore that for your own rhetoric push is why people can't have actual conversations with you about this. We also gonna ignore how bad the Hogan era tanked? How the old guys Hogan brought in killed the homegrown talent and wrestlers people actually liked in the promotion? How it did un-repairable damage to TNA's legacy and basically was the actual reason TNA stopped being a decent backup in wrestling to WWE? I guess so because Chris Saban held the belt at one point in a transitional reign that was terribly booked from start to finish, and that's somehow on Chris Sabian... It also doesn't help when you book your champions and your championship belts like shit. Anyone could have been champion around this era, and it would have been a disaster. And guess what? It was. You give Sabian a shitty transitional reign that made no sense to do, you tried to carbon copy and mass produce Eric Young's title win to make it feel like Daniel Bryan's and failed to capture any of the magic because of how clearly manufactured it was to try and copy a huge moment in wrestling history, among other bad booking decisions that had nothing to do with the size of the wrestler and everything to do with how shit the presentation was up and down the show. I watched TNA, I watched this shit happen in real time, so I'm not gonna be gaslit into thinking it was all because some guy you think isn't a star held a belt lmfao. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2022 18:32:44 GMT -5
Is it or is it not true that TNA fell off when they started putting the title on guys like Sabin, Young, Magnus and Eddie Edwards? Up until that point, TNA were seen as the number 2 company. Then all of a sudden, the company stopped mattering. You can't tell me the quality of their World Champions hasn't played a part in that. The quality has massively declined since the days of Kurt, AJ, Sting, Hardy... Even guys like Anderson and Roode had a bit of main event quality to them. I can absolutely say the world champions of that era were NOT the f***ing reason TNA "stopped mattering" or declined in quality over the years. We have literal deathwatch threads and spoiler threads that tell you exactly why TNA cratered and almost died during this time, and it was not because "Smaller guys became world champion", it was the overall presentation of the entire show, money drying up, and Dixie Carter openly taking a shit on the network they were currently attached to without even realizing she did it publicly, that really hurt TNA more than the perception that because a "smaller guy" was champion, they suddenly weren't the number 2 company anymore, and to blatantly ignore that for your own rhetoric push is why people can't have actual conversations with you about this. We also gonna ignore how bad the Hogan era tanked? How the old guys Hogan brought in killed the homegrown talent and wrestlers people actually liked in the promotion? How it did un-repairable damage to TNA's legacy and basically was the actual reason TNA stopped being a decent backup in wrestling to WWE? I guess so because Chris Saban held the belt at one point in a transitional reign that was terribly booked from start to finish, and that's somehow on Chris Sabian... It also doesn't help when you book your champions and your championship belts like shit. Anyone could have been champion around this era, and it would have been a disaster. And guess what? It was. You give Sabian a shitty transitional reign that made no sense to do, you tried to carbon copy and mass produce Eric Young's title win to make it feel like Daniel Bryan's and failed to capture any of the magic because of how clearly manufactured it was to try and copy a huge moment in wrestling history, among other bad booking decisions that had nothing to do with the size of the wrestler and everything to do with how shit the presentation was up and down the show. I watched TNA, I watched this shit happen in real time, so I'm not gonna be gaslit into thinking it was all because some guy you think isn't a star held a belt lmfao. The highest ratings TNA ever had was during the Hogan/Bischoff era. That's a fact. That period of TNA when Magnus, Sabin and Young held the title nearly finished the company off. Sure there were other factors that you mentioned. But it's no surprise to me that they struggled to get a TV deal when their top guys had no star quality. |
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Post by Final Countdown Jones on Dec 27, 2022 18:37:13 GMT -5
1. WWE and AEW aren't equals. I think even the most passionate AEW fan would admit that today. 2. TNA fell off massively when Dixie put her last big bet investment into Hogan and Bischoff. They never recovered after that blew up in her face. Eric Young held the title for a brief time to try and leech off of the whole Daniel Bryan thing. Sabin had the title for a few weeks. Magnus wasn't the best, but at the very least, he was homegrown. But again, the issue there was Dixie didn't know what the f*** she was doing and invested in WWE hasbeens when they had incredible homegrown talent they didn't get behind. 3. Ricky Starks is getting star reactions. Sammy Guevara gets big time heel reactions. Action Andretti is nowhere near main events right now, he was handpicked by Jericho because he saw something in him. You may not like it, but I'll trust Chris Jericho's judgment on these things over yours. Anyways, as it relates to the actual topic at hand, I think some people have to think of it as a rebound or stepping stone because it's a chance for them to rebuild themselves in the eyes of fans and wrestling management. I think we're still too early on in AEW's lifespan to actually know how wrestlers are going to use it. It's safe to say we're just going to see folks go back and forth between the companies over the next few years. That's how it should be. It's healthy. TNA also let AJ Styles walk. Their biggest “homegrown” star. He was like Sting to WCW, the guy who you can’t let leave….and they did. And AJ wasn't even some cult midcard standout or an unappreciated gem just waiting for someone to take a chance on him. He was their franchise player and they even said as much on-screen. They knew exactly his value when they basically let him walk. It was unbelievable. Easily still one of the top dumbest things Dixie Carter did, and Dixie Carter thrived on doing dumb things. |
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Post by Feargus McReddit on Dec 27, 2022 18:42:53 GMT -5
]The highest ratings TNA ever had was during the Hogan/Bischoff era. That's a fact. That period of TNA when Magnus, Sabin and Young held the title nearly finished the company off. Sure there were other factors that you mentioned. But it's no surprise to me that they struggled to get a TV deal when their top guys had no star quality. So you decided to not listen to me. Sweet. Maybe during your week off, you’ll look up articles about the inner workings of TNA, maybe the deal where Dixie protected Russo to the point they got axed from Spike TV. Heck, watch some old 90s WCW cruiserweight matches and see the crowds’ reaction at a prime time in wrestling history. Just…do some kind of decent research. Any. As long as it isn’t Russo columns or Jeff Jarrett saying Monty Brown wasn’t ready for a world title or whatever. |
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XIII
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
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Post by XIII on Dec 27, 2022 18:46:41 GMT -5
TNA also let AJ Styles walk. Their biggest “homegrown” star. He was like Sting to WCW, the guy who you can’t let leave….and they did. And AJ wasn't even some cult midcard standout or an unappreciated gem just waiting for someone to take a chance on him. He was their franchise player and they even said as much on-screen. They knew exactly his value when they basically let him walk. It was unbelievable. Easily still one of the top dumbest things Dixie Carter did, and Dixie Carter thrived on doing dumb things. If I'm not mistaken AJ actually wanted to stay too and they still let him walk. LMAO. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2022 18:49:17 GMT -5
I swear to God a part of me wants to see Marko Stunt come back and beat Satnam Singh in a squash match just to prove a point, now.
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Post by Final Countdown Jones on Dec 27, 2022 18:56:59 GMT -5
"The Hogan/Bischoff era got the hating ratings of company's history" and "the Hogan/Bischoff era set in motion the absolute demise of the company" are not mutually exclusive statements. A lot of shit happened during that period that hotshotted interest in some actually pretty rancid television that didn't hold onto people. Immortal ended up being an overlong mess of a story that never ended and never meant anything, and if you have your story turn into a meandering shitshow, people will tune out even if they tuned in with interest. Decisions were made that put the company into a massive financial nightmare they never recovered from. Ratings never came back to normal after the move to Monday night. Going on the road f***ed them sideways. Russo's writing was bad and repellant as ever. 2012 was actually a really well written year but the wheels were coming off and the damage had been done.
To say nothing of how they marginalized the X Division and let guys like Hogan storm in to bury dudes to Dixie that could have made money for the company. The small flippy dude matches were, regardless of what every old-timer said, one of the hottest and best draws in the company. Not one living human being tuned out because Chris Sabin was champion for four weeks going "Oh man this used to be the Hulk Hogan show" and it's absolutely to the living detriment of this board that we keep getting threads derailed by absolute gobshite nonsense where someone wraps up their own likes as some kind of society-spanning dogma that we're in ignorant defiance of. It's stupid. It's absolutely none of what the thread is actually about in terms of comparing AEW to TNA as an alternative. And bringing up "Oh yeah they'll die if they put the belt on Action Andretti" when he's been there for two entire shows is so ridiculous and out of step with reality that I actually hope it's intentional bad faith whinging because otherwise as a sincere statement it reads like a manic episode.
Experts, industry watchers, journalists, and fans have said for years that Hulk Hogan and Eric Bischoff did irreparable harm to TNA and led to its sharp decline alongside horrific mismanagement to Dixie Carter. But now, a new expert, the real expert, has emerged in the year 2022 to say that no actually Chris Sabin's title run did all that damage instead.
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Post by Finish Uncle Muffin’s Story on Dec 27, 2022 19:09:14 GMT -5
"The Hogan/Bischoff era got the hating ratings of company's history" and "the Hogan/Bischoff era set in motion the absolute demise of the company" are not mutually exclusive statements. A lot of shit happened during that period that hotshotted interest in some actually pretty rancid television that didn't hold onto people. Immortal ended up being an overlong mess of a story that never ended and never meant anything, and if you have your story turn into a meandering shitshow, people will tune out even if they tuned in with interest. Decisions were made that put the company into a massive financial nightmare they never recovered from. Ratings never came back to normal after the move to Monday night. Going on the road f***ed them sideways. Russo's writing was bad and repellant as ever. 2012 was actually a really well written year but the wheels were coming off and the damage had been done. To say nothing of how they marginalized the X Division and let guys like Hogan storm in to bury dudes to Dixie that could have made money for the company. The small flippy dude matches were, regardless of what every old-timer said, one of the hottest and best draws in the company. Not one living human being tuned out because Chris Sabin was champion for four weeks going "Oh man this used to be the Hulk Hogan show" and it's absolutely to the living detriment of this board that we keep getting threads derailed by absolute gobshite nonsense where someone wraps up their own likes as some kind of society-spanning dogma that we're in ignorant defiance of. It's stupid. It's absolutely none of what the thread is actually about in terms of comparing AEW to TNA as an alternative. And bringing up "Oh yeah they'll die if they put the belt on Action Andretti" when he's been there for two entire shows is so ridiculous and out of step with reality that I actually hope it's intentional bad faith whinging because otherwise as a sincere statement it reads like a manic episode. Experts, industry watchers, journalists, and fans have said for years that Hulk Hogan and Eric Bischoff did irreparable harm to TNA and led to its sharp decline alongside horrific mismanagement to Dixie Carter. But now, a new expert, the real expert, has emerged in the year 2022 to say that no actually Chris Sabin's title run did all that damage instead. I think this actually shows why AEW might not be the home for all folks that leave WWE. Folks would go to TNA and would be treated like gold and held over the TNA originals. That's just not happening in AEW - Tony has his faults, but I don't think "this guy was in WWE, let's push him to the moon" is how he does things. |
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chazraps
Wade Wilson
Better have my money when I come-a collect!
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Post by chazraps on Dec 27, 2022 19:15:16 GMT -5
I really didn’t want to be replying to you because I said I wouldn’t so I’m just going to make this clear; You’re not allowed to post stuff about sizes of wrestlers and whether you think they work to the “””””””””””casual””””””””””” fan who channel changes somehow in 2022 in any wrestling forum here when you don’t listen to counter arguments, statistic, history or anything else that goes against your own narrative that you cite from your Twitter feed or friends list or whatever you use. It hijacks topics, leaving them post after post of you ignoring those points and making them over and over and it becomes pages and pages of people responding to you alone and hey, I’d rather that not happen to you in the same way I’d rather you not post the same stuff over and over again. If you are willing to take in people’s points, give actual factual evidence to your claims and learn some history of why stuff actually didn’t succeed, I’ll retract this public warning. If you want to say you like or dislike a show, great, we’d like to hear them. But this is your warning to stop. And this might seem harsh but we’re all fed up as mods of having to deal with the fall out every. Single. Time. Is it or is it not true that TNA fell off when they started putting the title on guys like Sabin, Young, Magnus and Eddie Edwards? Up until that point, TNA were seen as the number 2 company. Then all of a sudden, the company stopped mattering. You can't tell me the quality of their World Champions hasn't played a part in that. The quality has massively declined since the days of Kurt, AJ, Sting, Hardy... Even guys like Anderson and Roode had a bit of main event quality to them. Look, I know you're on a one week break, but I want to point out that this is a prime example or correlation not equaling causation. You might as well blame the Harlem Shake viral videos, the legalization of gay marriage and the closing of Blockbuster Video as to why TNA "fell off." Let's look at something more visible in that 2013-onward metric: Bruce Prichard was replaced as head booker by Dixie keeping a secret Vince Russo. It's pretty evident where Bruce was ousted in 2013 and things got Russofied. You go from 2012 when week-to-week the show was building strong ratings without crash-shock-sweeps promotions of the Hogan-Bischoff era where storylines had proper build, everyone was utilized and genuinely across the board well recieved. It was a good wrestling show. Then 2013 you have the Aces and Eights going off the rails with builds and turns that made no sense, Dixie being made an on-screen figure, and the show feeling as if it was in deliberate contempt of its audience, punishing them for caring. And by 2014 ROH easily was the #2 behind WWE, especially in 2015 when the weekly ROH show was picked up by Destination America giving them not just the same access in homes as TNA but moreso thanks to their Sinclair reach. I'd also say TNA switching networks - twice - in that period affected them more than who was champion, especially when they kept being moved to networks with smaller and smaller reaches. Each and every television show in the history of the medium that's jumped networks even once has suffered from that*, but usually if they rebuild their audience it's not from jumping networks again the next year. *I know some would say Letterman going from 'Late Night' on NBC to starting the 'Late Show' on CBS would be the exception to the rule, but I see that more as a case of an individual talent jumping networks to start an entirely new show that's on a hour earlier. So, not the same thing. |
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Post by Duke Cameron on Dec 27, 2022 19:22:09 GMT -5
Given time I can see it being more then equal and honestly I think AEW is a step up from WWE in terms of pro wrestling,if you just care for fame and money WWE is probably the place for you but if you care a bout being the best pro wrestler then AEW is the place to be. I’d say NJPW is the place to go if someone cares about being the best pro wrestler. |
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Post by Final Countdown Jones on Dec 27, 2022 19:24:17 GMT -5
Anyway so Spike had issues with TNA because Bischoff sold them on a huge TV deal with the promise he could bring big ratings but they needed big money to get the show to that level, and Spike went along with it, because Spike were actually pretty good TV partners and were even paying a lot of the huge talent contracts themselves in hopes it would draw more eyes to the show. Negotiations were coming up and TNA was already in a weak position because they had failed to live up to their promises at all. Somewhere in the midst of that, they'd given an eidct that they didn't want any man-on-woman violence on the show. In August of 2014, months away from their end date and needing to negotiate, they paid off a months-long story by having Bully Ray powerbomb Dixie Carter through a table. It was a taped show and they had over a month to take it out or rethink it. They didn't. They aired it on Impact and Spike was unhappy.
Another edict that Spike handed down was that they didn't want Vince Russo involved in the show. "Don't re-hire Russo". Allegedly, Russo had been involved in the show since 2013. MOnths after being accused of being involved in the show and denying it, he emailed Mike Johnson of PWI commentary instructions meant for Mike Tenay, exposing the fact he was indeed working in a capacity for the company.
So TNA, already in a bad position to negotiate with Spike, broke two demands from the network, one of them openly and brazenly, and one of them in secret solely to keep them from knowing who they re-hired. Spike was never going to accept them. Destination America was one of the bidders to take them, but another Viacom channel, CMT, was also interested. Dixie took the lower-rated channel for less money intentionally, because she wanted to get a reality show made. Then, a year later, Dixie Carter called the head of Discovery Networks a dummy in an email she accidentally sent to [checks notes] the head of Discovery Networks. That not only left them f***ed on renewing their deal with Destination America, but also brought with it the issue of their reputation being so in the toilet that nobody wanted to pick their contract up because they were clearly a nightmare nobody wanted to work with. So they ended up on a channel meant for for-pay programming where they entered a revenue split deal, because the only way they could get onto any network was to have someone not have to pay them, at least until finally years later their new parent company bought a channel that could air them as in-house content.
Literally nothing about their issues had anything to do with 'star quality' and f***ing damn it no we've let this thread get derailed by the "I've been going to the gym for three months and I look like Ricky Starks" guy shit not again
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Post by Finish Uncle Muffin’s Story on Dec 27, 2022 19:24:36 GMT -5
Is it or is it not true that TNA fell off when they started putting the title on guys like Sabin, Young, Magnus and Eddie Edwards? Up until that point, TNA were seen as the number 2 company. Then all of a sudden, the company stopped mattering. You can't tell me the quality of their World Champions hasn't played a part in that. The quality has massively declined since the days of Kurt, AJ, Sting, Hardy... Even guys like Anderson and Roode had a bit of main event quality to them. Look, I know you're on a one week break, but I want to point out that this is a prime example or correlation not equaling causation. You might as well blame the Harlem Shake viral videos, the legalization of gay marriage and the closing of Blockbuster Video as to why TNA "fell off." Let's look at something more visible in that 2013-onward metric: Bruce Prichard was replaced as head booker by Dixie keeping a secret Vince Russo. It's pretty evident where Bruce was ousted in 2013 and things got Russofied. You go from 2012 when week-to-week the show was building strong ratings without crash-shock-sweeps promotions of the Hogan-Bischoff era where storylines had proper build, everyone was utilized and genuinely across the board well recieved. It was a good wrestling show. Then 2013 you have the Aces and Eights going off the rails with builds and turns that made no sense, Dixie being made an on-screen figure, and the show feeling as if it was in deliberate contempt of its audience, punishing them for caring. And by 2014 ROH easily was the #2 behind WWE, especially in 2015 when the weekly ROH show was picked up by Destination America giving them not just the same access in homes as TNA but moreso thanks to their Sinclair reach. I'd also say TNA switching networks - twice - in that period affected them more than who was champion, especially when they kept being moved to networks with smaller and smaller reaches. Each and every television show in the history of the medium that's jumped networks even once has suffered from that*, but usually if they rebuild their audience it's not from jumping networks again the next year. *I know some would say Letterman going from 'Late Night' on NBC to starting the 'Late Show' on CBS would be the exception to the rule, but I see that more as a case of an individual talent jumping networks to start an entirely new show that's on a hour earlier. So, not the same thing. At the end of the day, I suspect this person won't even care to read this when they're back. They just care about their talking points with which they continue to beat us over the head. I'll leave it there. |
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Post by Feargus McReddit on Dec 27, 2022 19:25:55 GMT -5
Given time I can see it being more then equal and honestly I think AEW is a step up from WWE in terms of pro wrestling,if you just care for fame and money WWE is probably the place for you but if you care a bout being the best pro wrestler then AEW is the place to be. I’d say NJPW is the place to go if someone cares about being the best pro wrestler. I’d argue there’s no issue with travelling in general. Even wrestling in Japan, you only get a recognition of Japanese audiences and what they react to. It’s why excursions are such a big thing so they can find out about other styles and what might work which is how we ended up with Naito in CMLL, Wato being a big deal in England and even, as much as it pains me to say it because of what came from it, Okada in TNA. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2022 19:30:47 GMT -5
Certainly, an alternative and there were points around the debut of CM PUNK that I thought they had lightning in a bottle but things have settled into where they are as a truly great #2 option. Vince's decision to publically step down hurt the momentum of AEW as well it feels.
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Post by The Captain on Dec 27, 2022 19:45:50 GMT -5
Chris Sabin held the TNA World Heavyweight Championship for less than a month and acted like a transitional champion in one of the clumsiest booked "thank you" reigns in recent wrestling history. Even Sabin himself didn't want to win the belt, but they did it anyway because I don't know. It didn't kill TNA because TNA was the walking dead well before Sabin won it and it barely lasted long enough to have any real long-term effects except for damaging the relationship between Sabin and the TNA higher ups.
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