cjh
Hank Scorpio
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Post by cjh on Jan 8, 2023 9:51:38 GMT -5
I do think that it'd actually probably turn the company into a massive money pit if Comcast bought them. That's a ton of TV rights and Peacock money not coming in anymore, and any costs they pay as-is aren't going to be as offset as they could be because they'd also be out the money coming in from Fox. There'd still be international deals and the like, and the company's other monetary streams, but I highly doubt WWE would remain profitable if it was being operated entirely in-house without absolutely massive budgetary cuts. That said Comcast are no strangers to dumping absurd amounts of money into projects that are never, ever going to pay off - hell, that's a big part of why WWE has the Peacock deal to begin with - so I could see them buying the company anyway.Yeah, the Peacock deal was really stupid for NBC-U. They paid way more than what they could realistically expect to make from WWE fans signing up.
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cjh
Hank Scorpio
Posts: 6,812
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Post by cjh on Jan 8, 2023 9:56:49 GMT -5
Maybe I'm missing something obvious, but wouldn't that also make WWE as a company less profitable since they wouldn't get a bunch of money for selling the TV rights to the highest bidder? (same if they're bought by Fox or Netflix or anyone else who already have their own channels) It cuts out the cost of TV rights fees for the media company like NBC or FOX. Right now, WWE sells its content to entities like FOX or NBC for over 700 million dollars per year. If NBC bought the company, they’d no longer pay any of those rights fees and instead would just have to pay to run the company and would collect money through advertisers, subscriptions, ticket sales, etc. Money coming directly from fans (Direct-to-consumer revenue) makes up less than 20% of WWE's annual revenue. Those rights fees are what the company survives on now.
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salz4life
Grimlock
Prichard is a guy who gets that his job is to service his boss.
Posts: 14,358
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Post by salz4life on Jan 8, 2023 10:07:26 GMT -5
The York Foundation
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Post by polarbearpete on Jan 8, 2023 10:13:03 GMT -5
It cuts out the cost of TV rights fees for the media company like NBC or FOX. Right now, WWE sells its content to entities like FOX or NBC for over 700 million dollars per year. If NBC bought the company, they’d no longer pay any of those rights fees and instead would just have to pay to run the company and would collect money through advertisers, subscriptions, ticket sales, etc. Money coming directly from fans (Direct-to-consumer revenue) makes up less than 20% of WWE's annual revenue. Those rights fees are what the company survives on now. Yes but NBC are already the ones paying those rights fees now! They pay 265 million for Raw, 50 million or so for NXT, and 200 million for Peacock. Plus Smackdown is 200 million for FOX. And these are all due increases in 2024 (except maybe NXT). There’s a chance by 2025 or so that buying all of the content would cost near 1 billion dollars per year. Which is why it might make sense for someone like NBC to just buy the company for 10 billion and have those shows wherever and whenever they want in perpetuity.
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Post by polarbearpete on Jan 8, 2023 10:18:56 GMT -5
I do think that it'd actually probably turn the company into a massive money pit if Comcast bought them. That's a ton of TV rights and Peacock money not coming in anymore, and any costs they pay as-is aren't going to be as offset as they could be because they'd also be out the money coming in from Fox. There'd still be international deals and the like, and the company's other monetary streams, but I highly doubt WWE would remain profitable if it was being operated entirely in-house without absolutely massive budgetary cuts. That said Comcast are no strangers to dumping absurd amounts of money into projects that are never, ever going to pay off - hell, that's a big part of why WWE has the Peacock deal to begin with - so I could see them buying the company anyway.Yeah, the Peacock deal was really stupid for NBC-U. They paid way more than what they could realistically expect to make from WWE fans signing up. That’s not the point for them. It was a way for them to get a loyal fanbase as part of the subscription service to help stabilize and grow subscription numbers (in addition to adding a vast amount of content hours). The same way that the TV rights deals aren’t necessarily money winners in the traditional sense for the channels (they don’t make more in advertising dollars than they pay for rights fees) but they are still seen as important for the channels.
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cjh
Hank Scorpio
Posts: 6,812
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Post by cjh on Jan 8, 2023 10:38:41 GMT -5
Money coming directly from fans (Direct-to-consumer revenue) makes up less than 20% of WWE's annual revenue. Those rights fees are what the company survives on now. Yes but NBC are already the ones paying those rights fees now! They pay 265 million for Raw, 50 million or so for NXT, and 200 million for Peacock. Plus Smackdown is 200 million for FOX. And these are all due increases in 2024 (except maybe NXT). There’s a chance by 2025 or so that buying all of the content would cost near 1 billion dollars per year. Which is why it might make sense for someone like NBC to just buy the company for 10 billion and have those shows wherever and whenever they want in perpetuity. Yes, meaning if NBC buys WWE, the revenue WWE is currently making from rights fees from NBC and Fox will go away and will have to be replaced or a NBC-owned WWE will generate a fraction of the revenue that current WWE does. Bringing back PPVs at full price might replace that revenue somewhat, but I don't know what else would.
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cjh
Hank Scorpio
Posts: 6,812
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Post by cjh on Jan 8, 2023 10:45:32 GMT -5
Yeah, the Peacock deal was really stupid for NBC-U. They paid way more than what they could realistically expect to make from WWE fans signing up. That’s not the point for them. It was a way for them to get a loyal fanbase as part of the subscription service to help stabilize and grow subscription numbers (in addition to adding a vast amount of content hours). The same way that the TV rights deals aren’t necessarily money winners in the traditional sense for the channels ( they don’t make more in advertising dollars than they pay for rights fees) but they are still seen as important for the channels. Yes, and the streaming services have been paying more to license content than said content was earning them. That's going to have to stop.
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Post by Gremlin on Jan 8, 2023 10:55:28 GMT -5
Kramerica Industries
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Post by polarbearpete on Jan 8, 2023 11:08:56 GMT -5
Yes but NBC are already the ones paying those rights fees now! They pay 265 million for Raw, 50 million or so for NXT, and 200 million for Peacock. Plus Smackdown is 200 million for FOX. And these are all due increases in 2024 (except maybe NXT). There’s a chance by 2025 or so that buying all of the content would cost near 1 billion dollars per year. Which is why it might make sense for someone like NBC to just buy the company for 10 billion and have those shows wherever and whenever they want in perpetuity. Yes, meaning if NBC buys WWE, the revenue WWE is currently making from rights fees from NBC and Fox will go away and will have to be replaced or a NBC-owned WWE will generate a fraction of the revenue that current WWE does. Bringing back PPVs at full price might replace that revenue somewhat, but I don't know what else would. Why will the revenue have to be replaced? The advertising dollars/increased carriage fees/subscriptions they will make becomes the revenue, whether NBC counts that as part of WWE’s revenue or it’s own (it would all be the same at that point). It’s sort of how Turner would say WCW was a big money loser when in reality they were getting all of this content from WCW that they didn’t have to pay rights fees for and then they weren’t counting the advertising dollars during the WCW programming as part of WCW’s revenues.
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cjh
Hank Scorpio
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Post by cjh on Jan 8, 2023 11:46:21 GMT -5
Yes, meaning if NBC buys WWE, the revenue WWE is currently making from rights fees from NBC and Fox will go away and will have to be replaced or a NBC-owned WWE will generate a fraction of the revenue that current WWE does. Bringing back PPVs at full price might replace that revenue somewhat, but I don't know what else would. Why will the revenue have to be replaced? The advertising dollars/increased carriage fees/subscriptions they will make becomes the revenue, whether NBC counts that as part of WWE’s revenue or it’s own (it would all be the same at that point). It’s sort of how Turner would say WCW was a big money loser when in reality they were getting all of this content from WCW that they didn’t have to pay rights fees for and then they weren’t counting the advertising dollars during the WCW programming as part of WCW’s revenues. Didn't you say earlier the ad dollars WWE programming makes for NBC is way less than what NBC pays WWE in right fees? Basically then, NBC is already spending way too much on WWE without the added expenses of having to run the entire thing. WCW was a big money loser. People in Turner Broadcasting in the early-1990s repeatedly requested to Ted Turner that he pull the plug on WCW because of its losses, and those losses from 1989-1994 or so were very reasonable compared to mid-1999 and beyond.
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Post by greyfmdan on Jan 8, 2023 11:47:23 GMT -5
Panda wrestling needs to be a thing. But not as EXTREME as Chimpanzee wrestling gets A few years back, I was at the zoo and saw a couple chimps wrestling over a blanket. Let me tell you, those little guys can go. One was even getting in some RKO-outta-nowhere action. 😂 (Edit: Tried to imbed a pic of said Chimp RKO but for some reason the board didn’t want to take it.)
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Post by polarbearpete on Jan 8, 2023 12:17:13 GMT -5
Why will the revenue have to be replaced? The advertising dollars/increased carriage fees/subscriptions they will make becomes the revenue, whether NBC counts that as part of WWE’s revenue or it’s own (it would all be the same at that point). It’s sort of how Turner would say WCW was a big money loser when in reality they were getting all of this content from WCW that they didn’t have to pay rights fees for and then they weren’t counting the advertising dollars during the WCW programming as part of WCW’s revenues. Didn't you say earlier the ad dollars WWE programming makes for NBC is way less than what NBC pays WWE in right fees? Basically then, NBC is already spending way too much on WWE without the added expenses of having to run the entire thing. WCW was a big money loser. People in Turner Broadcasting in the early-1990s repeatedly requested to Ted Turner that he pull the plug on WCW because of its losses, and those losses from 1989-1994 or so were very reasonable compared to mid-1999 and beyond. The idea would be that if they bought the company, that’s 1 billion dollars per year in rights fees that they’d no longer be paying, so all of the advertising/carriage fees/subscriptions plus ticket sales, Saudi deal, etc offset only against the cost of running everything (which is less than the rights fees they were paying). They wouldn’t make up the entire purchase price right away but over time they would.
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cjh
Hank Scorpio
Posts: 6,812
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Post by cjh on Jan 8, 2023 13:06:39 GMT -5
Didn't you say earlier the ad dollars WWE programming makes for NBC is way less than what NBC pays WWE in right fees? Basically then, NBC is already spending way too much on WWE without the added expenses of having to run the entire thing. WCW was a big money loser. People in Turner Broadcasting in the early-1990s repeatedly requested to Ted Turner that he pull the plug on WCW because of its losses, and those losses from 1989-1994 or so were very reasonable compared to mid-1999 and beyond. The idea would be that if they bought the company, that’s 1 billion dollars per year in rights fees that they’d no longer be paying, so all of the advertising/carriage fees/subscriptions plus ticket sales, Saudi deal, etc offset only against the cost of running everything (which is less than the rights fees they were paying). They wouldn’t make up the entire purchase price right away but over time they would. NBC pays WWE about $515 million a year in rights fees, not $1 billion. - $265,000,000 for Raw - $200,000,000 for WWE on Peacock (and is not worth nearly that much) - $50,000,000 for NXT
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Post by polarbearpete on Jan 8, 2023 13:22:00 GMT -5
The idea would be that if they bought the company, that’s 1 billion dollars per year in rights fees that they’d no longer be paying, so all of the advertising/carriage fees/subscriptions plus ticket sales, Saudi deal, etc offset only against the cost of running everything (which is less than the rights fees they were paying). They wouldn’t make up the entire purchase price right away but over time they would. NBC pays WWE about $515 million a year in rights fees, not $1 billion. - $265,000,000 for Raw - $200,000,000 for WWE on Peacock (and is not worth nearly that much) - $50,000,000 for NXT They’d have the rights to Smackdown as well which right now cost $200 million (and NBC is rumored to want to bid on Smackdown and maybe put it on NBC proper). and I’m baking in the anticipated increases for the next round of deals and you’d get to close to 1 billion (maybe more in the 800-900 million range).
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cjh
Hank Scorpio
Posts: 6,812
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Post by cjh on Jan 8, 2023 13:37:55 GMT -5
NBC pays WWE about $515 million a year in rights fees, not $1 billion. - $265,000,000 for Raw - $200,000,000 for WWE on Peacock (and is not worth nearly that much) - $50,000,000 for NXT They’d have the rights to Smackdown as well which right now cost $200 million (and NBC is rumored to want to bid on Smackdown and maybe put it on NBC proper). and I’m baking in the anticipated increases for the next round of deals and you’d get to close to 1 billion. WWE's asking price right now to be purchased would be at least $6 billion.
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Post by Feargus McReddit on Jan 8, 2023 13:41:26 GMT -5
Comcast is the most logical but as mentioned; it’d not have the same benefit to WWE as a company or Comcast as a buyer.
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Post by polarbearpete on Jan 8, 2023 13:55:36 GMT -5
They’d have the rights to Smackdown as well which right now cost $200 million (and NBC is rumored to want to bid on Smackdown and maybe put it on NBC proper). and I’m baking in the anticipated increases for the next round of deals and you’d get to close to 1 billion. WWE's asking price right now to be purchased would be at least $6 billion. Probably more like 9-10 billion I’d guess. NBC for all that content would need to pay around 800 million-1 billion PER YEAR. So they’d make it up eventually but it would take a bunch of years of course.
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cjh
Hank Scorpio
Posts: 6,812
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Post by cjh on Jan 8, 2023 14:50:57 GMT -5
WWE's asking price right now to be purchased would be at least $6 billion. Probably more like 9-10 billion I’d guess. NBC for all that content would need to pay around 800 million-1 billion PER YEAR . So they’d make it up eventually but it would take a bunch of years of course. Decades would be the more accurate term here, not years. WWE's most profitable year ever was 2021. After paying taxes and their bills, they made $180 million that year.
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john84
Fry's dog Seymour
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Post by john84 on Jan 8, 2023 14:53:13 GMT -5
But not as EXTREME as Chimpanzee wrestling gets A few years back, I was at the zoo and saw a couple chimps wrestling over a blanket. Let me tell you, those little guys can go. One was even getting in some RKO-outta-nowhere action. 😂 (Edit: Tried to imbed a pic of said Chimp RKO but for some reason the board didn’t want to take it.) Oh I know they can go. Certainly wouldn't want to mess with them. I remember seeing a youtube video and this guy was talking about going to this zoo where people started throwing rocks at this one chimpanzee who just stood there and took it till the people ran out of rocks and then started hurling them back at the people who then ran and hid lol.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2023 15:42:45 GMT -5
nbc/universal wouldn't be the worst. Other than smackdown on fox, everything they do is already involved with them, so it's the easiest transition. They own usa network, so the usa relationship would stay the same, so raw would be untouched, and the universal theme parks can sell wwe shirts and whatnot, or have a physical wwe hall of fame to sell tickets for, to make up money they spent buying the company, so there's a "how can we make our money back" part that other buyers wouldn't have.
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