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Post by clc on Jan 19, 2024 9:01:58 GMT -5
Give him number 17, he deserves the record. I say it everytime but it baffles me that they'd prefer problematic Ric to keep the record over respectable Cena. Especially now there's the consolation belt available. I think they want the moment of Ric's daughter breaking his record. They probably think that's more sentimental than Ric's daughter breaking Cena's record.
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Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on Jan 19, 2024 9:07:23 GMT -5
I've said this for years, WWE's treatment of Cena, after how Taker, Austin, Rock etc have been is super weird to me. I'm not even expecting Superman Cena again but it just feels like Cena losing should mean more than it does and it doesn't. So yeah, if, say, Cena won the US title and vacated it, I'd be down. Give him something to chew on instead of "Austin Theory poked him a bit" and boom, match! It is astounding how little they've gotten out of Cena losing to people. Lesnar's squash of him at Summerslam 2014 was the last time a Cena loss felt like a big deal with the subsequent ones not really feeling big (Reigns, Theory) or being canceled out by an unnecessary win later (Styles). I talk about this all the time. But Survivor Series, Raw v Smackdown, that time Smackdown had Cena, I think it was 2017. Cena showed up at the pay per view, no promos, no thing... wearing green. When Smackdown were, of course, all wearing blue shirts. Cena takes ages to get tagged in, and then jobs to one finisher, without fanfare, and leaves. I was f***ing fuming. I'd turned around on Cena being good in 2010 or 2011 or so, weirdly I think Punk actually put him over for me. But like. Cena didn't lose to almost anybody for the best part of a decade, and now we're just. It's no big deal, bro. What an absolute waste. It feels spiteful, it actually feels more spiteful than some of the legitimate spite booking pointed at other talents before.
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Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on Jan 19, 2024 9:09:20 GMT -5
I say it everytime but it baffles me that they'd prefer problematic Ric to keep the record over respectable Cena. Especially now there's the consolation belt available. I think they want the moment of Ric's daughter breaking his record. They probably think that's more sentimental than Ric's daughter breaking Cena's record.
Counterpoint to their view on this - how about Cena takes it from Flair, and Charlotte takes it from Cena?
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Post by OGBoardPoster2005 on Jan 19, 2024 9:28:44 GMT -5
Cena's post full time booking has been absurd. Everything after 2017 has been pretty bad. The Taker match shouldn't have happened if Taker couldn't actually work it. I would have had Cena either win the Battle Royal to just give him another prize or throw him in the Nakamura/AJ match to have the 3 top guys of the top 3 promotions in the World at the time mix it together at Mania. Would have been special. Matt Hardy didn't need the Battle Royal win and it would have at least given Cena a spotlight and that match on the card. I would have moved the Stroman match to the pre show. Do that as a way to charm the fans into buying the show last minute....or maybe that wouldn't have worked. Or just say "F it" and have only 2 pre matches. The Triple H match was fine in Saudi Arabia, that can stay. Firefly Fun House was fine, no change there. Him losing to Roman at Summerslam made sense for the story being told. I know people had Roman fatigue but for the angle that's being told it made sense and was a great way to symbolize Roman surpassing Cena while showing Cena still had it. I'm sure the Austin Theory match had some sort of end game to it but currently it just looks weird. Maybe it'll age better years from now because Cena's booking was an issue to some in 2018, but a lot of it then was a general lack of direction which I think stemmed from the WWE not knowing his long term and trying to build there short and long term. Solo beating Cena is fine too depending on how that turns out for him. We are too soon to rebook those from the perspective. If anything, Cena hit what Hogan hit in 1993 and Austin in 2002, a different world from the one he came up in and him being a different person than the guy he was when he was in it. When I look back at Hogan 1993, Austin 2002 and Cena 2018 they share the same issues: 1. Lack of direction - Hogan was brought back to pop the numbers for Wrestlemania IX and they manufactured a feud where likely at his request he teamed with Brutus to face Money Inc. Ted had history with both from his 1988 feud with Hogan and 1989 feud with Brutus but because of that it created an element where it was out of place in the sense of where all 3 had gone after 1989. Hogan was still at the top of the card competing for the WWF Title just a year prior and arguably would have had a shot at Randy Savage had he stuck around in kayfabe. Ted, however had dropped down the card significantly from Main Eventer to Upper Midcarder to just Midcarder and tagging with IRS. Brutus, meanwhile had not been an active wrestler since the Summer of 1990 while IRS had no history with either Hogan or Brutus. The result was a feud between a Tag Team that had been well established in the WWF for nearly a year in Money Inc that had been dominating that scene choosing to go out of there way to beat up a returning Brutus Beefcake and prompt him to get Hulk Hogan out of retirement to fight them. On paper it was a classic Hogan House Show/TV feud from 6 years ago and was a shift from the WWF's focus on building Bret Hart and Shawn Michaels as legitimate athletes worthy of the World Title, especially when fans know Hogan is around and in the minds of some would easily beat both of them. Then "things changed" and Hulk suddenly was World Champion and you can tell they were hoping he'd be there post King of the Ring to feud with Yoko but on TV he never returned to the WWF til 2002. Austin had the same issue. After the Invasion ended they tried to go back to 1999 with Austin as World Champion being hounded by McMahon but we had just witnessed over 2 years of character development which by that point going back wasn't the same. After they tried having Austin as just a top guy, similar to Randy Orton these days but you can tell Austin was fully into it, especially after the heights of 1997-2001. It was just a radical shift from what things were at the height of Austin's run and the WWF was evolving as the Nash, Hall, Hogan, Hennig, Goldust and Rikishi all returned at once along with Ric Flair creating an entirely different world from what the WWF was as they, WCW, and ECW now shared the same universe, something that didn't exist aside from the ECW invasion of the WWF in 1997 where it didn't fit the McMahonian WWF presentation and the occasional shoot jabs between one another. A lot of things started feeling passe around that time. Cena after his last reign was just fighting guys and looking to find something else to do. There was still use, even if he didn't win the belt, he could be a viable opponent for anyone, but it seemed they didn't want to push him when he was in/out. So like Austin and Hogan, Cena fell into that spot. 2. Change of audience of times - Hogan had started as the top guy in 1984 when Vince was transitioning the WWWF style to the WWF style and by 1993 the same 5 year old kids who grew up watching Hulk or the the 16 year old teenagers who did were now 14 and 25. Compare pop culture of the two eras and its night and day. The 80s real life super hero Hulk was out of place for a wrestling audience that had dwindled heavily while the fans that were there either made fun of it or shook their heads. It wasn't the same. Austin experienced this as well. When he was coming up in 1996/97 you were in the beginning of a much more adult direction of wrestling. Austin had the look and voice of an old school territory Heel but people loved the look and the presentation and gravitated to that. The anti-hero of Austin was a radical contrast to the super hero Hogan. By 2002 when Austin's run ended (2003 aside), it was a different time in America. There was a call back to Americana and Patriotism not seen since the 80s. But unlike the 80s where a man waving the flag was considered a hero, there was craving for realism. Austin as an anti-establishment badass wasn't the lead that the more realistic world was looking for. Society and culture shifted as a whole. The 6 year olds that watched the WWF in 1996 were now 12 and had experienced 9/11. The 16 year olds who were watching in 1996 that grew up on Hogan first were now 22 and seeing their friends going off to war and experiencing a real attack on their country. It felt passe. Cena by 2018 had been on top since 2005. The 5 year olds who grew up watching the WWE with Cena were now 18 and Cena was their childhood wrestling hero like Hogan and Austin was, but some may not have viewed wrestling the same as their tastes evolved over time. To some it was just meme stuff they watched, but others became dedicated fans. The 16 year olds in 2005 that grew up on Austin likely found Cena lame and tuned out, but the ones who stayed, turned 29 and had a family that they and their kids started knowing Cena for other things than wrestling, like Hulk Hogan post 1989 when he started making movies. 3. The Long Term - Hogan was 39 when he won the WWF Title at Wrestlemania 9. Bruno was 41 when he lost the belt for the final time and was out of the World Title scene. Bruno wrestled til he was 52 but Bruno wasn't getting other offers. Hogan by 1993 was offered a TV series, movie deals and wrestling contracts from WCW and New Japan. He had other options and Vince likely not wanting a Hulk Hogan turning 40 and trying to hold the company up as his long term. He knew he had Bret Hart, Shawn Michaels and others in his pocket and a longer run for Hogan had to end with someone going over him. From there he would either be a feature attraction like Bruno was after 1977 or take the other deals. He went elsewhere and so did the WWF. Austin was turning 37 when he lost the belt to Jericho in 2001. He was only 2 years from Hulk, 4 from Bruno and 3 from Bret for hitting that number that seemed like a cutoff for the company. The problem was though was that Austin's neck and real life issues were hurting him. He went all out from 1989-2002 and barely stopped. The engine was running out and he hit the wall 6 months later. There were too many question marks to try and squeeze 2-4 more years out of Austin as a top guy and so they wanted to at least start getting guys over him but Steve still saw himself as the top guy. Cena was 39 when he beat AJ Styles at Royal Rumble. You could argue Cena could have been like The Undertaker and been a 2nd World Champion to carry a brand but it seemed like the WWE was more than ready with how heavy stacked their Main Event scene was. I think Cena, like Hogan had offers and ran with it. When his run ended in 2019 he was 41, the same age as Bruno.
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Post by YAKMAN is ICHIBAN on Jan 19, 2024 9:42:33 GMT -5
It would probably suck at this point in Cena's career but I don't care, if they get Okada make Cena vs Okada happen.
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Post by "Trickster Dogg" James Jesse on Jan 19, 2024 11:02:10 GMT -5
I don’t think fans or longtime Cena detractors would be pissed if he, say, went over or won and then vacated the US belt or something for his finale.
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Fade
Patti Mayonnaise
Posts: 38,494
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Post by Fade on Jan 19, 2024 11:23:23 GMT -5
Cena's post full time booking has been absurd. Yeah. I enjoyed a stretch of his last run during the Hollywood strike. I disliked his character for years and years but Old Man John deserves a fitting farewell.
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Post by polarbearpete on Jan 19, 2024 13:48:26 GMT -5
I’d love to see the heel Hollywood Hogan version of Cena for a last one year run, including him breaking the title record.
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Post by ChitownKnight on Jan 19, 2024 14:49:01 GMT -5
I get why he’d want to go the Jushin Luger route of primarily putting talent over after years of mostly super strong booking, but they’ve played up Cena’s desire to show why WWE calls him the GOAT and his frustration over his singles losing streak that I don’t think fans or longtime Cena detractors would be pissed if he, say, went over or won and then vacated the US belt or something for his finale. I've said this for years, WWE's treatment of Cena, after how Taker, Austin, Rock etc have been is super weird to me. I'm not even expecting Superman Cena again but it just feels like Cena losing should mean more than it does and it doesn't. So yeah, if, say, Cena won the US title and vacated it, I'd be down. Give him something to chew on instead of "Austin Theory poked him a bit" and boom, match! He’s won the US title like 6 times. I say either do that with the IC title or just give him his well deserved #17
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Post by Feargus McReddit on Jan 19, 2024 14:53:44 GMT -5
I've said this for years, WWE's treatment of Cena, after how Taker, Austin, Rock etc have been is super weird to me. I'm not even expecting Superman Cena again but it just feels like Cena losing should mean more than it does and it doesn't. So yeah, if, say, Cena won the US title and vacated it, I'd be down. Give him something to chew on instead of "Austin Theory poked him a bit" and boom, match! He’s won the US title like 6 times. I say either do that with the IC title or just give him his well deserved #17 The more broader point being basically give him a bone. He's more than earned it and all the losses are just making it hard for me to potentially invest in anything he's in, especially if he's going to give as much effort as he did with Theory last year.
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Post by "Evil Brood" Jackson Vanik on Jan 19, 2024 14:55:50 GMT -5
I think we're at the point where Cena returning to put people over doesn't mean much at this stage. Solo's booking and crowd reactions haven't changed notably since that match. I feel like he should get a feel good ending.
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Post by ChitownKnight on Jan 19, 2024 15:26:40 GMT -5
He’s won the US title like 6 times. I say either do that with the IC title or just give him his well deserved #17 The more broader point being basically give him a bone. He's more than earned it and all the losses are just making it hard for me to potentially invest in anything he's in, especially if he's going to give as much effort as he did with Theory last year. Oh absolutely, at the very least his final match needs to be a win
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Post by Lizuka #BLM on Jan 19, 2024 16:59:06 GMT -5
Yeah, does feel like you should probably send Cena off on a win if only because at this point beating him doesn't mean anything anyway. Both Theory and Solo basically gained nothing from beating him.
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Post by A Platypus Rave is Correct on Jan 20, 2024 2:20:40 GMT -5
Yeah, does feel like you should probably send Cena off on a win if only because at this point beating him doesn't mean anything anyway. Both Theory and Solo basically gained nothing from beating him. Which again is f***ing insane. The Ace for years, that basically carried the WWE for over a decade setting it up to how it is now where it makes more money than it ever has... And... he loses so much that it doesn't help anybody... Can you imagine them treating Austin like this? or Hogan? It does feel like they're angry that he dared to leave them while he was still relatively healthy and go to Hollywood. But they treat the Rock and Batista better than him when they show up...
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Post by "Trickster Dogg" James Jesse on Jan 20, 2024 2:40:20 GMT -5
But if he were so over as people claim he is, then losing wouldn't really matter, would it? It should roll right off him. Yet...?
Turnabout is fair play. I hated Cena's booking and gimmick from late 2005 until I stopped watching wrestling in 2016. That's more than a decade. Y'all can take a few more Cena Ls.
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The Gallus Mark
Unicron
Watching Icelandic Women’s Soccer Highlights
Posts: 2,589
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Post by The Gallus Mark on Jan 20, 2024 3:09:34 GMT -5
Give him number 17, he deserves the record. Rollins is hurt, have him beat Rollins for it. Lose it to Punk for Night 1 Main Event/Retirement Match against one of his greatest rivals and to put over a youngster on the way out.
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Post by yokohamacpfc on Jan 20, 2024 3:11:29 GMT -5
Why not have him go after GUNTHER for the one title he has never won?
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Post by Feargus McReddit on Jan 21, 2024 6:38:43 GMT -5
But if he were so over as people claim he is, then losing wouldn't really matter, would it? It should roll right off him. Yet...? Turnabout is fair play. I hated Cena's booking and gimmick from late 2005 until I stopped watching wrestling in 2016. That's more than a decade. Y'all can take a few more Cena Ls. Hey, if you look through my post history, I was one of the firm critics of Cena's run just because it felt like they were pushing through something that shouldn't be happening in wrestling crowds, where they're not invested in your story and hijacking matches. Sure, yeah, they made it into his thing but man, that just shouldn't be a thing you do with your top babyface. It doesn't make a lick of sense. Also didn't help he was basically adjusting to being a main eventer on the fly rather than progressing in a fashion that suited his abilities back then. Some of those first matches in his title runs do not particularly age well. Having said all of that...he's still the dude they built. Through thick and thin, that is what they did and he basically dragged the company out of the doldrums almost single handily to where it is today. If all you're going to use him for is to lose to guys you're not going to have any real follow through for, you might as well not have him there. Especially when the only story you have for him is "If you beat me, it'll mean nothing because I'm still the guy that drew PPVs and ratings" or whatever the f*** they think that approach is.
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Post by EoE: Well There's Your Problem on Jan 21, 2024 6:51:53 GMT -5
Why not have him go after GUNTHER for the one title he has never won? If it were literally anyone else other than Gunther as the IC Champion, I’d be all up for that. But I think whoever beats Gunther needs to be around to get the benefits of that.
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Post by Feargus McReddit on Jan 21, 2024 6:56:38 GMT -5
Why not have him go after GUNTHER for the one title he has never won? If it were literally anyone else other than Gunther as the IC Champion, I’d be all up for that. But I think whoever beats Gunther needs to be around to get the benefits of that. Also, like, there's no believability in him actually beating Gunther for that belt. If Cena can't beat Austin Theory, you think he's going to beat the guy who made Drew, Sheamus and others his punch bags?
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