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Post by This Player Hating Mothman on Apr 1, 2023 9:31:53 GMT -5
I love this weird shit where we have to pretend that straight men don't date and aren't attracted to trans women when I know so many trans women who get lonely straight dudes in their twitter DMs just f***ing drooling over them constantly. If you just don't know any trans people you end up with zero scale of just how attracted to trans women many, many straight men are. Which is all also not getting into the idea of trans women who are attracted to. Other women? Like why the f*** is this woman's dignity being centered around if men would date her as a singular stake-in-the-ground issue for why people in this thread are saying Wrong Things? I'd hate to tell you this, but The fact you just don't have a reply to tell me makes this post absolute poetry.
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Legion
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Post by Legion on Apr 1, 2023 9:32:46 GMT -5
Jesus, and here I was thinking Rick was the decent one of the two!
What a piece of trash to just randomly start shouting this at a convention.
It's pleasing to see so many people offering support though - another example of the scummy business that is wrestling changing as the younger generation take over.
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Post by The Barber on Apr 1, 2023 9:33:05 GMT -5
locking this for 10 minutes so everyone can take a breather. thread's re-open play nice, no one wants to miss mania weekend here. To be fair, I'm assuming we are all talking like we are having a nice conversation over coffee in a coffee shop. Then may I ask, what should a man do if he finds out that the person he is with is trans? Just shrug his shoulders? I hate to tell you this, but that won't be most men's reactions. I'm not agreeing with it, but it's the truth. Politely decline in a way that doesn't diminish someone else's personhood, maybe? Or more importantly, if he was attracted to this person before, he could ask himself what has actually changed based on the revelation? Figure out why he allows himself to throw up the barrier in the first place? You point to the imperfect world and shrugging your own shoulders in the face of something that you don't agree with because its some sort of alleged majority opinion. But here's the thing: that attitude does dick-all to actually end or even minimize those things. Just rolling with it makes marginalizing outgroups easier. I agree that a polite decline is the way to go. My guess is that they feel like they are being lied to by not revealing that they were originally a different sex (yes, I agree that if a person has had some sort of cosmetic plastic surgery that that should be told to potential partners beforehand as well). I'm not understanding your second point, however.
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Post by The Barber on Apr 1, 2023 9:33:49 GMT -5
I'd hate to tell you this, but The fact you just don't have a reply to tell me makes this post absolute poetry. The thread got locked briefly before I could edit my post.
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lucas_lee
Hank Scorpio
Heel turn is finished, now stripping away my personality
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Post by lucas_lee on Apr 1, 2023 9:38:39 GMT -5
The fact you just don't have a reply to tell me makes this post absolute poetry. The thread got locked briefly before I could edit my post. Can you like explain all of your points because I have no clue what you're going on about. Giselle has already said she's trans so I dunno where you're coming from.
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XIII
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
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Post by XIII on Apr 1, 2023 9:40:09 GMT -5
Reading through Rick Steiner’s flow chart. I think since I don’t like him, I’m gonna have to bite him. According to Steiner linguistics I can then only infer that you are a buttnut. LMAO.
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Post by The Barber on Apr 1, 2023 9:42:02 GMT -5
No disrespect to anyone here, but some of the things you guys are saying is setting a bad precedent. Yes, in a perfect world, it wouldn't matter if someone has changed their sex. But in this imperfect world, a trans person who doesn't disclose that they are trans is setting themselves up for trouble. Most straight men will see Gisele as a man regardless of how many surgeries Gisele has had. lol trans people that fully “disclose” who they are also get massive amounts of abuse. Get lost with this victim-blaming shit. Tans women are women. There was a problem with the reply button so my original response never went through. I am not 'victim blaming'. I am fully ok with trans community being open about being trans and any hate they get is uncalled for. However, not telling a potential partner early on is not ok. I am not saying that they should be subject to any harm, but realistically, you don't know how most men would react in that situation, so it's best to get it out of the way before anything bad could happen. I mean, if you had the love of your life leaves you because she (I assume you are a straight male) found out that you once slept with a black woman, wouldn't you like to have known that before you gave your heart to this woman? That is why I have told potential sexual partners that I was with other races of women because some have said that they have a problem with it.
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lucas_lee
Hank Scorpio
Heel turn is finished, now stripping away my personality
Posts: 6,697
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Post by lucas_lee on Apr 1, 2023 9:43:11 GMT -5
Also I'm glad the Steiners showed their true colors again. I remember an old topic about jobber squashes and I brought up how these guys were psychos and got grief for it. They're Dynamite Kid level monsters
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lucas_lee
Hank Scorpio
Heel turn is finished, now stripping away my personality
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Post by lucas_lee on Apr 1, 2023 9:44:00 GMT -5
lol trans people that fully “disclose” who they are also get massive amounts of abuse. Get lost with this victim-blaming shit. Tans women are women. There was a problem with the reply button so my original response never went through. I am not 'victim blaming'. I am fully ok with trans community being open about being trans and any hate they get is uncalled for. However, not telling a potential partner early on is not ok. I am not saying that they should be subject to any harm, but realistically, you don't know how most men would react in that situation, so it's best to get it out of the way before anything bad could happen. I mean, if you had the love of your life leaves you because she (I assume you are a straight male) found out that you once slept with a black woman, wouldn't you like to have known that before you gave your heart to this woman? That is why I have told potential sexual partners that I was with other races of women because some have said that they have a problem with it. But why is this being brought up? Giselle has been out about it. This has nothing to do with the topic
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Post by This Player Hating Mothman on Apr 1, 2023 9:44:31 GMT -5
Frankly, if a cis woman received harassment and someone derailed the thread to talk about how they weren't f***able this thread would have already been nuked from orbit. Falling for this weird shifting-over of discourse into how "most men" [citation needed] don't want to have sex with trans women and taking the bait on replying was a bad call but seriously this is gross off-topic stuff from someone who's projected the unrelated fact they don't want to be with a trans woman into everyone else's problem. A trans woman got harassed and her gender is being boiled down to its sexual palatability to some guy and the people he's talked to. This is gross as f***.
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Post by The Barber on Apr 1, 2023 9:45:57 GMT -5
The thread got locked briefly before I could edit my post. Can you like explain all of your points because I have no clue what you're going on about. Giselle has already said she's trans so I dunno where you're coming from. Ok. No problem. The board has said (if I am misquoting, please tell me) that no trans person should tell other people that they are trans and that every straight man won't mind it if they are and that is not realistic. I'd rather a trans person be up front about it than get deep into a relationship with an idiotic bigot who nobody know how that person will react.
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Post by This Player Hating Mothman on Apr 1, 2023 9:46:41 GMT -5
Can you like explain all of your points because I have no clue what you're going on about. Giselle has already said she's trans so I dunno where you're coming from. Ok. No problem. The board has said (if I am misquoting, please tell me) that no trans person should tell other people that they are trans and that every straight man won't mind it if they are and that is not realistic. I'd rather a trans person be up front about it than get deep into a relationship with an idiotic bigot who nobody know how that person will react. Nobody said literally any of that.
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lucas_lee
Hank Scorpio
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Post by lucas_lee on Apr 1, 2023 9:47:42 GMT -5
Can you like explain all of your points because I have no clue what you're going on about. Giselle has already said she's trans so I dunno where you're coming from. Ok. No problem. The board has said (if I am misquoting, please tell me) that no trans person should tell other people that they are trans and that every straight man won't mind it if they are and that is not realistic. I'd rather a trans person be up front about it than get deep into a relationship with an idiotic bigot who nobody know how that person will react. Quote the person that said that. I don't think anyone said that. 🤔
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salz4life
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Post by salz4life on Apr 1, 2023 9:48:00 GMT -5
No disrespect, but this is an incredibly bad take. Bigots will be bigots regardless of what their chosen outgroup does; it's one of the reasons some folks aren't public about gender identity. The idea trans people are setting themselves up for trouble by waiting to disclose their identity puts the responsibility for these reactions on them and not the folks harboring baseless hate. And the idea that immediately disclosing gender identity somehow generates less negative attention from bigots is wishful thinking at best and naive at worst. Then may I ask, what should a man do if he finds out that the person he is with is trans? Just shrug his shoulders? I hate to tell you this, but that won't be most men's reactions. I'm not agreeing with it, but it's the truth. Not be a jerk off seems to be the answer here. It really shouldn't be that difficult to do, but it seems like it is for a lot of people in today's society.
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Post by The Barber on Apr 1, 2023 9:51:09 GMT -5
Frankly, if a cis woman received harassment and someone derailed the thread to talk about how they weren't f***able this thread would have already been nuked from orbit. Falling for this weird shifting-over of discourse into how "most men" [citation needed] don't want to have sex with trans women and taking the bait on replying was a bad call but seriously this is gross off-topic stuff from someone who's projected the unrelated fact they don't want to be with a trans woman into everyone else's problem. A trans woman got harassed and her gender is being boiled down to its palatability to some guy and the people he's talked to. This is gross as f***. Umm...no. No disrespect sir, but you need to read my posts more thoroughly. I said that this board has many posts telling trans people that it is ok to not tell anyone that they are trans and that nothing will happen to them if they don't. I said that it is a good idea to say that they are because you never know how someone is going to react, especially if they get involved with said person. I think this board has a bad tendency to live in a bubble. I work, ride the bus with, and live in the neighborhood of people who don't consider trans women women because I have asked them about it before.
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Post by This Player Hating Mothman on Apr 1, 2023 9:52:37 GMT -5
Frankly, if a cis woman received harassment and someone derailed the thread to talk about how they weren't f***able this thread would have already been nuked from orbit. Falling for this weird shifting-over of discourse into how "most men" [citation needed] don't want to have sex with trans women and taking the bait on replying was a bad call but seriously this is gross off-topic stuff from someone who's projected the unrelated fact they don't want to be with a trans woman into everyone else's problem. A trans woman got harassed and her gender is being boiled down to its palatability to some guy and the people he's talked to. This is gross as f***. Umm...no. No disrespect sir, but you need to read my posts more thoroughly. I said that this board has many posts telling trans people that it is ok to not tell anyone that they are trans and that nothing will happen to them if they don't. I said that it is a good idea to say that they are because you never know how someone is going to react, especially if they get involved with said person. I think this board has a bad tendency to live in a bubble. I work, ride the bus with, and live in the neighborhood of people who don't consider trans women women because I have asked them about it before. I'm not a sir also no those posts don't exist and also you worry a lot about the possible mechanics of being deceived into being with a trans woman for someone whose every word on this topic ensures you will never have to deal with that conundrum. I don't know what bus you ride where this is a thing people will just talk about, but find a new bus.
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Apr 1, 2023 9:55:14 GMT -5
Guys, we’re not going to start lecturing to people how they allegedly *should* go about presenting or defining their gender identities, that’s their f***ing business. Either some of you knock that off, or the thread’s done and warnings may be handed out. Let’s keep it primarily based on the incident at hand, alright?
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Post by The Dark Order Inferno on Apr 1, 2023 9:59:23 GMT -5
Jesus, and here I was thinking Rick was the decent one of the two! What a piece of trash to just randomly start shouting this at a convention. It's pleasing to see so many people offering support though - another example of the scummy business that is wrestling changing as the younger generation take over. The best thing Rick did was retire, he was just as hated as his brother, but since he vanished from the scene dust settled and he got the benefit of the doubt by default without having to change.
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Gunhaver
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Post by Gunhaver on Apr 1, 2023 10:05:25 GMT -5
I'm not understanding your second point, however.
I'm glad you said this, because it's super important! I genuinely thing it's overlooked by lots of well-meaning people.
So earlier you wrote this:
You also said that you support people being open, which is great! But the problem is that these ideas are sort of at odds: you accepting what you see as the norm, which in turn is a) defining what being open means for people, and b)pinning the other party's response on the trans person if they go about their openness in a way that goes against this. Ignoring that this upfront openness doesn't actually mitigate hate, it perpetuates the idea that the minority needs to comply with what a majority expects for their own safety/well-being. This mindset can be seen throughout history applied to different racial, gender, religious, and sexual groups, with unfortunate consequences for those expected to comply.
So going with an alleged truth because the the alternative seems unrealistic in the present is how progress grinds to an absolute halt and people get hurt. Social progress is often an uphill battle against ingrained mindsets and norms. Caring about equality means not giving up simply because the ideal result seems unrealistic.
I hope that's legible. I'm on mobile and the interface is less-than-friendly towards revisions.
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Post by Ishmeal Loves Kaseyhausen on Apr 1, 2023 10:05:36 GMT -5
In the land of bad takes, man. We may have found the monarch.
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